incinerator950 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Looks like GW is going to be killing some of the armies off form fantasy entirely http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/09/bombshell-harry-talks-end-times-for.html WOW, Let me say that I am glad they haven't tried this in 40k...yet Glad I never got into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 I know right. But its terrifying that the GW suits would even think that was a remotely good idea, I mean are they really that divorced from the community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Looks like GW is going to be killing some of the armies off form fantasy entirely Like Black Templars or Catachans? They won't kill armies. They might combine some (Undeads), just like Templars were combined with SM. And that's still might, there are still 3 more books coming in The End Times. There will be changes but eventually everything will come back to status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Not what the rumour states. And both templars and catachans are niches within armies and both forces are still playable. The rumour is more a kin to killing of leviathan and then decreeing there's no more hive fleets. Then updating the game and asking all tyranid players to re invest in different armies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 But... the Genestealers will remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Not sure about killing entire armies off but I'd really like something happen to 40k like the End Times with fantasy. There are some major story changes in the nagash book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Marshal Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Looks like GW is going to be killing some of the armies off form fantasy entirely http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/09/bombshell-harry-talks-end-times-for.html WOW, Let me say that I am glad they haven't tried this in 40k...yet Squats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Not what the rumour states. And both templars and catachans are niches within armies and both forces are still playable. The rumour is more a kin to killing of leviathan and then decreeing there's no more hive fleets. Then updating the game and asking all tyranid players to re invest in different armies We have no idea what they're planning. All those rumours might be wrong. People are saying that armies are canceled because Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts are mixed in the Undead Legions. Even if that's true you still have all TK and VC units in UL, so it looks like it'll be possible to play as pure TK or VC, even when new edition hits with UL as the only Undead army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 This is harry he is right 80-90% of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 That's still 10-20%, which is pretty big concerning how much stuff comes out of GW. There is also the question of if he is interpreting the information correctly. Look back to the Chaos Rumors. "Renegades Codex". "Legions Codex". "Expect to have three Codices by 2015". Guess what, we have three "Codices", by 2015, one is a Legion Codex Supplement and another is a Renegades Codex Supplement. The VC and TK armies are gone. In their place is the UL. It will most likely be able to be played as one or the other, but it is still an UL army. So, it don't matter who it is, salt is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 It's a good thing we have such generous amounts of salt in the Eye and Maelstrom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 That's still 10-20%, which is pretty big concerning how much stuff comes out of GW. There is also the question of if he is interpreting the information correctly. Look back to the Chaos Rumors. "Renegades Codex". "Legions Codex". "Expect to have three Codices by 2015". Guess what, we have three "Codices", by 2015, one is a Legion Codex Supplement and another is a Renegades Codex Supplement. The VC and TK armies are gone. In their place is the UL. It will most likely be able to be played as one or the other, but it is still an UL army. So, it don't matter who it is, salt is required. Sure, thats fine. But this is still a terrifying idea, just terrifying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 One thing you can be sure, Chaos will never be deleted. It is the most unique facet of the Warhammer and Warhammer 40k and it is completely diverse in structure, mechanic and background compared to the classic fantasy races, namely humans, elves, dwarves, undead and so on. Said that. Having finished the End Times I can say that they are doing a proper job killing stuff and shattering an universe. It is the much needed pruning that is taking place. Obsolete armies are being merged, secondary characters are being killed and the stage is being set for a more lean game format. Will the same happen to 40k? Hardly, for unless Abaddon smashes trough Cadia and the Emperor dies there is little to no room for pruning. You cannot kill Khârn for example, but you can very well kill Sicarius or Chronus. The first is a major character with ten millennia of background, a champion of a god and the exemplar World Eater, the other two are simply the last generation of commanders in the Ultramarines... far from being essential. What I expect with "Chaos" in the future is merely some retcons, perhaps a new character, big kits (those seem to be the norm nowadays) but in terms of fluff we will essentially remain in the two minutes till midnight. Why? Because we have more than ten thousand years to fill with the exploits and the background of our armies, same as for GW. In terms of lore, the 999.M41 is merely the result, the crowning epoch of a history that spans across ten millennia. We have no need for "End Times" because we have so much manoeuvre room for the background that even the 40k End Times can still be build across completely new fundamentals and pivotal events. Also... the galaxy is big, so GW can pile events upon events. Just look how the events evolve with every new codex in their timelines. Some are old, some are new, but all still fit together without any relevant change to the M41 time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I hve a theory about the Cadian Gate smashing. I'll put it up when I get home from work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesh Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Consider the Crusades as campaigns. With specific goals because of reasons, with horrendous casualty ratings because numbers, and Abbadon either leaving before a retaliatory strike or whatever because he finished at the pivitol moment before getting steam rolled. Personally, I don't consider macguffins as satisfactory conclusions to campaigns and horrendous losses which magically replenish because plot. Which is similar to Marneus Suegar fisting an Avatar and being a tactical genious everywhere, you're going to see a supreme resurgence of glorifying the crap out of it until Black is the new Blue. I'm semi-new to the forums so, I may not be really qualified to add much to the discussion, but I have an opinion on this share. I'v been following ADBs posts since I signed up, something to do in my free time. I really like his perspective on Abaddon, I find him an interesting character and think the Black Legion has potential. That said, as it stands, I don't actually like the Black Legion at all. I feel like their flaws are making them more powerful now, you know? I wouldn't say Abaddons a Mary Sue quite yet, but their weaknesses seem to just make them more potent, which is frustrating. They all the best and the worst of the Chaos Legions, but I don't -feel- like they have the worst, sure there's undoubtedly backstabbing going on within the legion, but it never seems to shake them up in a major way because it also means they have huge numbers. Fluid command structure doesn't make them less organized but it does make them more flexible. If it were up to me, i'd have it so the Black Legion has the flexibility to go into the other gods, but not to be the best at it. Not quite the Ultramarines because they would still have much more variety, but closer in function. One part of Devram Korda I liked was how he could accomplish things through the Black Legion, but when faced with a rival Emperors Children warband he was knocked out of Sarora. They should be okay at everything, just not the best at everything, because even having the worst of the CSM isn't enough of a drawback for the flavor it takes from other legions.. I want the mono-legions to get more spotlight in the Long War, I want the Primarchs to wake from the Great Game and do some fighting, but maybe it's just not meant to be. If I could, i'd simply have Abaddon as an undivided representative, bigger in size then the others perhaps, but not so -critical- to the CSMs success. That, I think should go to the performance of all the legions. But that's just me, and it hasn't really impacted the Emperor Children which is my preferred Warband, but I very easily see how people can get upset by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 It's something I'd rather take to a private discussion than litter the board with my view points every BL, ToH, and Chaos Rising or theoretical business direction topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesh Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 It's something I'd rather take to a private discussion than litter the board with my view points every BL, ToH, and Chaos Rising or theoretical business direction topic. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Like Tenebris said, weve got 10000 years worth of sales in us yet. Besides, Im sure the whole Warhammer reboot is more inline with the Throne of Chaos thing right? Its not the new edition, its an alternative ruleset. I suppose book wise they could consolidate Humans and add in a chapter tactc thing so you can run Empire, Brettonia etc and then do teh same for Chaos and Elves to cut down on printing cost. But things like Ogre kingdoms will probably go, perhaps even Lizardmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Noo, I play Ogre Kingdoms :) But yes consider it a reboot. In terms of 40k, we have alliances which act as a "merging" of sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Marshal Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I don't see them merging CSMs/Daemons just because of the bucket loads of money they'll be making on Allies matrix and Summoning powers. Warriors of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos? Yeah, sure, mainly because of how fantasy sales aren't as high. There's no reason for WoC players to pick up a DoC book because there's no Allies matrix (YET. I wouldn't be shocked if we got one in 9th). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I hve a theory about the Cadian Gate smashing. I'll put it up when I get home from work. sorry, I forgot to reply to this. First, let me ask a question. What is the Long War? There are two views. The first is that it is the continuation of the Heresy, the attempt to end what Horus began. The second is the belief that it is a new and second war that is meant to see the Imperium burnt to ashes. The first view is introduced to us through Anthoney Reynolds' Word Bearers. The second is introduced to us through A D-B's Night Lords. Both are rather different and are "true" to each faction. But which is the original meaning? When did the Long War really begin? Is it just the Heresy put on hold for the Scouring and the Legion Wars? Is it something new? What is its purpose? Incinerator once said to think of the 13 Black Crusades as individual campaigns. The Chaos Marines say to see it as one Long War. Which one is right? What if I said both were? And that neither were? The 13 Black Crusades were individual wars. Each war is meant to achieve a specific objective. Some of those were achieved. Some of those were only partially achieved. Some were failures. And all twelve of these objectives, went towards the Long War. Towards preparing for it. That's right, the 13th Black Crusade, is not a Black Crusade as the Imperium sees it. It is the Long War at its pinnacle. The culmination, the final push. And the attack on Cadia? That's the 40K equivalent of D-Day in World War II. The beginning of the end. But what does that have to do with the Cadian Gate Kol? Are you sure this isn't one of your infamous troll rants that the older Chaos Ascendant Vets occasionally talk about? Let me ask you another question. Where was the 13th Black Crusade retconned to actually not happening? Where? The answer is nowhere. Since 6th Edition, we've been focusing on the preparation for it. When the Black Legion supplement came around, we were shown a rather telling picture. http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130831031102/warhammer40k/images/e/ea/BlackCrusades3.jpg Notice what it happening. The 13th Black Crusade isn't just an arrow to Cadia. It has a projected arrow past Cadia to Terra. Anyone who has lived in Florida or another state/country that has hade to worry about hurricanes, typhoons and other major mobile storms knows one thing about projected paths; they are only projected if they are considered currently possible. What relevance is this? It means that the plan isn't to just go past Cadia to Terra, but the 13th Black Crusade is at such a state in the Cadian System that its path towards Terra is an actual statistic of probability. Now, let us recall the events of the 13th Black Crusade Campaign. Originally, the Forces of Chaos shattered the gate. At the end of the campaign, Cadia itself was essentially under the control of Chaos while the space above was a hotly contested battleground. After GW tweaked the results, Cadia held, jus barely. But the Forces of Chaos still punched through the Gate. It was open to all to spill free from the Eye. After all, one tiny planet was no longer enough to keep the tides of Hell in check. And this was never retconned. Our focus was merely shifted to an earlier point in time to show how Abaddon succeeded. The Gate is still busted wide open. Chaos is free. The Final Crusade isn't over of course as Terra has not been captured. That's the Two Minutes to Midnight of the setting. It isn't that Hell is crashing against the gates; it is that Hell has already broken through and is coming for you. Disclaimer: As mentioned earlier, personal belief. Feel free to disregard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 It's not so much as the Gate is in flames, the gate isn't a protracted Fortress, more as a flood gate. The lynchpin of the importance of the 13th Crusade is the Necron Pylon network that keeps the warpstorm from the Eye in check. So much is that Cadia has reduced capacity to uncontest the planet. Even the game campaign, it was not looking well for the Imperial relief fleets despite the losses to the Legion's fleet. Abbadon's goal is to secure the network to unleash Chaos demons in a tide as he knows even if he magically gained all of the Chaos Legions and Rogue Chapters, he wouldn't have enough to break through to the Sol system. He needs the demon hordes to swell and wash over the Imperium. This also has the added benefit of letting more Warbands and traitor armies not under his command to do their own campaigns of carnage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I'm taking a strictly fluffy go on this one. I've long since learned that trying to fit rules/end games into this would be pointless. More along the lines of...how would you want to see chaos work from the end of the 41st to the begining of the 42nd. To go for the end game push would be more of a waste since it wont happen. I'm more along the line of the next chaos invasion. I'd kill for FW to do their magic on all the Black Crusades. That'd be so amazing it would be bigger than life. The Legion Wars are largely untouched other than the Sons of Horus die, the Black Legion is birthed and it pretty much ends with the death of the Horus-clone. Oh, and Skalathrax. Actually, the Legion Wars per se end with the rise of the Black Legion. Becoming the top dogs and refocussing the attention of many warbands towards the Imperium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Be nice if they merged Daemons and Chaos to be fair... The latter never had enough stuff anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Be nice if they added more stuff to Daemons because why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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