I hope you own a salt mine for this one ...

[Beta galactosidase]

The Cardinal and the Canonness both agree: the Church does not need loose cannons of dubious piety sticking their noses into their Holy business.

 

As a fan of the faction, such a huge part of Imperial life really shouldn't play second fiddle to anybody in a codex. I'd like to see Codex: Ecclediarcy, honestly. Expand on the named HQs, expand on Church only forces. Stick us under the Inquisition again? I'd rather play with the e-codex forever. If they stick us with the =I= I'll still play it, but damned if I let those weirdos anywhere near my Sisters.

 

 

 

I was not fond of Witchhunter days.  It always seemed like a forced arangement.  It is true the Adepta Sororitas and the Inquisition can have similar goals but their agendas a quite often at odds.  If you had to combine them in a single book, wouldn't make more sense to have Codex: Ecclesiarchy with the Inqusition being included as a part of that?  

 

 

 

I think that a codex: Ecclesiarchy with Sisters in it, or any conflating of sisters and the ecclesiarchy, is a horrifying travesty.  The Ad. Ministorum exists because there are lay people who go about their secular lives and rely on the Ecclesiarchy to perform religion on them / to them / for them.   The Adepta Sororitas live their devotion every day, and they do that by linking their mastery of single skills - e.g. fighting, language, medicine, archae/anthropology - with their devotion to the Emperor.  They support their organization by providing their services to aligned organizations like the ecclesiarchy.

 

The priests are in the doubly compromised position of on one hand engaging in the classic faults of religion of manipulating the population, and on the other hand the disreputable position of having worth measured only by the size of their parishes/dioceses and not any personal skill or merit.   The Sisterhoods by contrast are devoted and skilled, and serve the Emperor in ways beyond just being a sort of gaudy, strident chaperones to the laity.

 

It is enough for many people to say that both of them are the "religious" factions in the game, and so between that and their shared history they are effectively synonymous and it is ok for the word "ecclesiarchy" to completely coopt the orders.  Imagine, however, that you live in a world where everything is "religious," either the pre-modern era, the Imperium, or many parts of the modern world.  In that case, merely being religious or serving the same religion is not a relevant distinction.

 

Yeah, it seems they're "standardizing" certain wargear upgrade costs between all Imperial codices, without taking into account that one Imperial model is not like the other. That power weapon is quite different when it's taken on a 1-wound non-veteran S3 A1 I3 Sister Superior as compared to a 4-wound S4 A4 I5 Space Marine Chapter Master, and so forth.

 

On that, consider how worthless a regular power sword has been since third edition to a big-number profile character like that, and that is pretty much the reason relics exist today in seventh edition.

 

*I think priests are completely essential to the composition of any Imperial army and I love putting banners and relics on things, no matter what the rules happen to be.  The thing is that once you do that, there is no place for a religion-themed army, since all Imperial armies are religious.  The Sisters are the army that should have /fewer/ priests, not more.

 

As for Acts of Faith, they are the original offender in the messes that are the pain-tokens, chapter-tactics, chaos 3.5 legion complex.  It is tacked on to make the rules for the models more appealing as a purchasing/list-building exercise, but during game play it is like you brought along rules that are basically meaningless.  You do some book keeping or dice rolling, but they for the most part affect attacks, saves, or checks that you were already attempting.  In games, I have never thought that it was good to have sisters as anything but allies, because it is better to keep the acts of faith dimension of play as much on the side as possible.

 

Ofc, sisters have an important dimension that is represented by AoF, but Shield of Faith is much less distracting than AoF have ever been.

[tvih]

 

On that, consider how worthless a regular power sword has been since third edition to a big-number profile character like that

 

True, but the same applies to just about every other upgrade as well. Eviscerator on a Canoness costs the same as a Thunder Hammer on a Chapter Master, despite not being as effective, except against vehicles. Power fist, Thunder hammer or a combi-weapon costs same on a BS3 WS3 scout sergeant as it does for said Chapter Master with BS5 WS6. Plasma gun costs the same on a 5+ BS 3 guardsman as it does on a 3+ BS 4  marine. And so forth. Can't help but feel it's all a bit silly.

[*Furyou Miko]

So, Curvacious - your favourite Sisters codex is the original, yes?

 

Part of me does think that Rites of Battle made more sense than the Acts of Faith system. It was a lot less... mystical space magickey.

[Beta galactosidase]

Sacred Rites were from better times. The whole list from the 3e rulebook was better, even if bs3 could be a drag some times. Add the CA articles and it was a fantastic army. Overall, AoF are a waste of time and the models should do the work without a bunch of tests, it is more fun that way.

 

I think that if you have mystical emperor powers, they should be more part of the game. That is, if your unit kills an enemy unit, it gets a specific power for that turn only. If one of your units is wiped out, another one of your units get a specific power for that turn only.*

 

Right now you do all the powers voluntarily with little interaction or apprehension on the part of your opponent, a bunch of things happen with dice, and then you get a slightly better result on something you were going to attempt anyway, e.g. it is possible for your opponent to fail all his saves even if you do not have rending or ignore cover.

 

These past few incarnations of AoF are something your opponent doesn't really have to think about, unlike a system where he has to be wary of feeding you easy victories or focus-firing you because those might power you up.

 

When you bring up Sacred Rites though, it reminds that even if AoF can be done well, that does not mean it should be done at all. I really like when a model has a profile, its gun has a profile, and there aren't any more special rules than that.

 

 

 

*a unit that wipes out another unit should automatically get/test to get 3++ rerollable, and any time you lose a friendly unit you can make/test to make one or d3 units PE+rending. Also shield of faith.

[Knight of the Raven]

Heh, I don't even intend to use acts of faith anyway. I liked that in the battle report against tau when witch hunters came out, the sisters of battle won in spite of downright losing the ability to use acts of faith because of an unlucky roll when Celestine died.

[graysparrow]

Heh, I don't even intend to use acts of faith anyway. I liked that in the battle report against tau when witch hunters came out, the sisters of battle won in spite of downright losing the ability to use acts of faith because of an unlucky roll when Celestine died.

 

The Emperor protects....but having a loaded bolter never hurt either! 

[Ullr Direfang]

Well I guess I need to think about grabbing my own edex soon, now that I just got 2 squads of 10 sisters each off of ebay.... I can run a small detachment now! Then once I get that, I can participate in these discussions better.

[Warsmith Aznable]

I just got 2 squads of 10 sisters each off of ebay.... I can run a small detachment now!.

Welcome to the convent!

[march10k]

The version I heard was that C:I would include options for sisters, marines, GK, IG, possibly assassins and arbites, without needing those armies' base codexes, and with very few options....like, battle sisters, assault marines (and tactical squads?), veteran squads, etc, no funky stuff like sternguard, vendettas, and seraphim.

[Ullr Direfang]

So it would be like them calling in the Deathwatch or calling on the local SoB Order to help them out. Kind of make sense, still kind of silly to me. One upside would be seeing if they did anything cool for the sisters in that book that would hopefully give some hints as to what is coming for us.

[Knight of the Raven]

what is coming for us

Surprise for you in the fridge,

 

Love, Celestine

[vonny]

that's evil, knight of the Raven...

[Ullr Direfang]

 

what is coming for us

Surprise for you in the fridge,

 

Love, Celestine

 

 

Left overs? But I love left overs....

[Still Standing]

My favourite Sisters book was Codex Witch Hunters.  I usually ran a pure Sisters list headed by a flying Canoness, the main body being 3-4 squads of mounted Sisters with Melta and Heavy Flamer and supported by a unit of Seraphim and 3 Exorcists (or two + a squad of Heavy Bolters).  I was hugely disappointed when they stole my codex and gave me a White Dwarf print out (which became impossible to get hold of).  I was furious when they added further insult to injury and gave me an eBook.  I've played 2 or 3 games since the eBook, and did fairly well, but I've given up on them.  They are my favourite faction in 40k, I have 200+ models, but guess what?  frak you Games Workshop, frak you.

 

EDIT: I can do grammar.

[Jacinda]

I was pretty despondent with the 5th edition codex, too. That was when I decided to throw away everything I knew about Sisters of Battle and try every unit in a 500 point game before making my full list. I did not care about the loss of Inquisition units because my Witch Hunters were 100% faithful anyway; there was no room for IST or Inquisitors in my army.

 

I'm glad I took the time to re-evaluate every part of the codex. That 5th edition White Dwarf codex was vicious. Especially when you could assault with a Battle Conclave out of a Rhino as long as it did not move. 6 DCA, 3 Crusaders and Uriah could win games on their own. Draigo wing with wound allocation shenanigans were speed bumps. This was also the first codex where Repentia were worth taking.

 

I hated it when it first came out. I was disappointed when I read the first half but told myself the options and wargear must be where the strength would come from. Then I literally sat and cried when I read the second half. Looking back on it now, it is my favorite army list. The lore could have been better and it needed a few more stories but the Army was brutal.

 

6th and 7th editions are ... OK. They need more but I can use them just fine.

 

I also have a good 50 pounds of pot metal already and will not buy any new sisters until there are NEW sisters to buy, but I love my army and GW can kiss my ... errr ...let me change where I was going with that.

I will keep playing my army no matter what. If nothing else they will be counts-as Salamanders before I give them up.

[*Furyou Miko]

Feet, Jaci?

I played with the Witch Hunter book, but I never had huge amounts of luck with it. Battles were always incredibly bloody affairs that usually resulted in a single Sister limping around - usually a melta-phim.

I did have a lot more luck with it when I dropped the Inquisition elements though. They were definitely a weak link.

[Still Standing]

Inquisitor w/ Orbital Barrage & Carapace Armour, 3 Heavy Bolter Servitors, 2 Acolytes w/ Carapace & Bolters, 2 Chirurgeons were a very solid unit.  Under Codex Witch Hunters I won faaaar more games than I lost.  Then again, I've always found that to be true when using Sisters.  The Emperor protects, after all.

[Naminé]

I was pretty despondent with the 5th edition codex, too. That was when I decided to throw away everything I knew about Sisters of Battle and try every unit in a 500 point game before making my full list.

But how did you fit them all into just a 500 point list?

I agree with you the 5th Edition codex was actually pretty mighty indeed. Though there were few units most of them were solid choices capable of doing a great deal for your army, for only a little point cost. It's a shame the e-dex actually put our costs up overall though.

That said, I think it will be a very long time before we get another update. Hope I'm very wrong on that :p

[Jacinda]

But how did you fit them all into just a 500 point list?

I know you are teasing me but each 500 point game featured a different unit.

[Full_ork]

I'd be ok with this because I prefer having hard covers (though I did buy the sisters digital book). And it would hopefully mean new sisters models.

 

However I'm not getting my hopes up.

[Templar1]

I was okay with the WH codex. It had a great grim dark feel to it. I kind of hope they bring something as burny/hereticpurgey as the last one.

[foxlight713]

Keep the breasts on their armor though. I love their aesthetics in a surprisingly non sexual way.

Thant and the Heels. I would take a hard copy of rules, and new models IF you could tell them apart, and they still looked like ladies.

Just like to point out that the SoB never had heels. The only exception is the one 2nd ed artwork, otherwise everywhere else they are never shown with heels in any official artwork.

[Frater Cornelius]

Hm, the current SoB book isn't bad by any means. But for some people the mark of good codex is being able to regularly appear on the top tables on a GT. In that case you will be better served with Xenos or SM combos.

 

While not being a SoB player, I am a fan of the concept and I love the feel and aesthetics of an ecclesiarchal army.

So from that perspective I would dislike having them rolled into INQ seeing as that would be rather disrespectful to the lore.

However, if the choice would be to either be rolled or being Squatted, I definitely go for the enrollment just to save that concept. After all, player can always make up their own fluff.

 

Hmm, I should really get some Shield Maidens going some time soon :)

[ElectricPaladin]

Re: Acts of Faith.

 

I still think the easiest answer is just to make up a list of six relatively subtle, but powerful psychic abilities.

 

Then make all canonesses ML 2.

 

And all squads "Sisterhoods of Psykers," ML 1.

 

And say that they can only take powers from the Sisters of Battle Miracles psychic discipline.

 

Except maybe a special character living saint who can also take Santic powers.

 

And if you really wanted to, you could probably do worse than a sanctioned/repentent psyker in the Elites slot who can take other powers.

 

Bingo! Now you're using a system we already have, which we already know more or less works. You've also killed two birds with one stone, because in addition to a host of neat miracles - which you can keep subtle, to reflect the fact that the Sisters' faith is manipulating the world subtly, by calling down small miracles, rather than shooting flames and teleporting - the Sisters are now a powerful anti-psyker army (because every squad and vehicle is generating at least one Warp Charge).

[Jacinda]

I don't see Acts of Faith being synonymous with psychic powers, tho.  I see them working similar to chapter tactics, power through pain, guard's orders or some other form of army specific traits.  At least I thought so before they were so limited in use.