Salamanders 2000pt list feat. Vulkan

[Castiel]

Hey folks,

 

I'm starting building a 30k Salamanders force, working in 500 point blocks up to this list using the Salamanders' Covenant of Fire Rite of War. Plenty of Master-crafted, artificier armour and flame weaponry on display!

 

Here's the list:

 

Vulkan 425

 

Cataphractii Praetor: M-c paragon blade, dragonscale ss, mantle of the elder drake. 185

 

Firedrakes: M-c thunder hammer, 4 thunder hammers, 5 dragonscale ss. 350

 

Pyroclasts: M-c power fist. 300

 

Contemptor: Dreadnought ccw, multi-melta. 175

 

Tactical Squad:  M-c power sword, artificier armour. 175

 

Breacher Siege Squad: M-c thunder hammer, artificier armour, gravition gun. 275

 

Legion Support Squad: M-c power sword, flamers. 115

[amazarak]

Good morning my Salamander brother-

 

Welcome! A couple of things that jump out to me:

 

- Lack of transport for your Firedrakes and Vulkan. They are a tremendous beat stick, but are going to be walking into combat and subject to everything anyone can throw at them on the way there. A spartan, while expensive, it a common transport for these guys.

 

- Anti-air: While not as common in 30k, there's still some nasty air units out there that you will need an answer for. A very points efficient answer to this is a mortis contemptor armed with las cannons or a kheres assault cannon. In addition, this unit provides extra anti-armor if necessary.

 

- Pyroclasts: There's a good deal of love for these guys on the forums and their models are spectacular, however it's worth balancing them against a tactical support squad armed with flamers (which I see you have already). The flamers will still get +1 making them the same strength as the pyroclasts flamers. What you are paying nearly twice as much for then is the 6" (read: 3") melta option and a 2+ save. Meltas are of questionable utility in the 30k world anyway so it's up to you if you feel the value is there. It's worth having the conversation however.

 

- Tactical Squad: It's only 10 marines so you are paying a premium price for them, but they are foot slogging and not riding in a rhino. Consider adding 10 extra marines (only 100 points) to flesh out the squad or equipping the unit with a Rhino to allow faster transport. 20 marines dropping 80 bolter shots with a fury of the legion attack will certainly put a hurting on any opposing squad. Attach an apothocary for that 5+ feel no pain reroll for extra goodness. I personally love the extra ccw option for +2 points myself but that's purely a personal choice. Vexillas are traditionally quite useful for 30k marines (no ATSKNF), but salamanders get to reroll one dice on a failed morale test so I skip it.

 

- Breachers: God I love these guys. I haven't found an efficient way to add them to my army yet, but they are pretty cool. When I was toying around with them, I attached an apothocary to the unit and gave them a multimelta for every 5 guys. Any way you slice it, this is going to be an extremely expensive unit and of questionable utility. Darned cool though in my opinion.

 

Other things I love:

- I really like predator squadrons. Relatively inexpensive anti-armor av 13 goodness. The auto cannon in 30k is better than it's 40k equivilent. Remember they operate in squadrons though (unlike dreads which are free to wander around blasting everything as individuals).

- Rapiers: Wow... they are inexpensive and static, but bring serious dakka to a battle. The heavy bolter option is 120 points for three teams and that's 18 twinlinked heavy bolter shots at something. What is that, like 15-16 hits? And the laser destroyers and gravity-death guns are pretty amazing too.

 

Good luck my friend!

[Kor'Vesh]

Welcome to the fire-born.

 

The list you put together will look lovely, be fun to collect, and has a real Salamanders flavour. However, from a competitive stand point you are really going to struggle here. Amarzak is right that mobility is a big problem for you, as is killing a tank over 12" away. Just imagine lining up against a player with long ranged low AP blasts - I'm thinking multiple medusas, or pred executioners, vindicators, basilisks, whirlwind scorps... Your foot sloggers will die very quickly to any of these.

 

I think squeezing vulkan in at 2k is tough, especially with a Firedrake body guard. If you are going to do it though you will have to take either a storm eagle or a spartan, otherwise your opponent will just be able to avoid your slow old cataphracti all game. The Spartan is more reliable, and it brings some quad lascannons to the party which are a huge help to you. The problem here is over half of your army is in one tank, moving up the board.

 

Maybe, if you want to use the big man, we could be more adventurous, and avoid the Firedrake body guard. You could try running vulkan with 5 pyroclasts in a land raider proteus with explorator augury web. That is a nasty pay load for any unit to face in a scouting land raider.

You could then go for something like this:

 

Lord of war - Vulkan, covenant of fire 425

HQ - primus Medicae - MC power sword dragon scale storm shield 115

Elites - contemptor Mortis with twin linked lascannons 185

Apothecary - power sword 55

Troops - 5 pyroclasts in land raider proteus with augury web 415

15 tactical marines power axe and melta bombs 215

15 breachers with 3 melta guns, thunder hammer 340

Legion support squad - rhino 135

Heavy support - whirlwind scorpius 115

 

Here, the apothecary and Medicae protect your foot slogging 15 man troop squads (who benefit from move through cover), which should protect you from ranged templates a bit. The Mortis moves up with them, and provides air cover and ranged anti tank, along with the land raider. The breachers' melta guns are twin linked, so they can handle armour nicely at short range, while the support squad will hurt infantry and be a good objective grabber. The whirlwind can thin out enemy infantry for you, and hurt vehicles with s8 on the side armour. You could swap that for an executioner with no sponsons - this would give you some anti terminator cover which might be worth it, despite being worse against tanks. You could master craft something for the spare 5 points. All tanks will benefit from the invul versus a number of weapons due to the ROW, and move through cover. On top of it all you have a scouting primarch and with a fiery 2+ save body guard.

[Castiel]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses, I appreciate them!

I'm was aware of the mobility issue, but couldn't fit them all in a LR. I hadn't thought about a Spartan, but they are very expensive both in terms of points and the actual model. I'll see if I can write one in though, probably by dropping the support squad and changing the Breachers to a tac squad.

I'm not too worried about having the most competitive list (as you can probably tell from how its written ), the guys I play with are fairly laid back and building lists in a similar fashion to me. I'm definitely keeping the firedrakes and pyroclasts though as I like the theme and models, even if they aren't the most competitive. Vulkan for me is a must, because what's the point in playing 30k if you don't have a Primarch? I put the Breachers in as I already have the models and because I like them, buy I might retire them once I have a few more units and keep them for playing Zone Mortalis.

Thanks for the suggestion, might have a revised list for you soon!

[Kor'Vesh]

Fair enough castiel, good luck with the list revision. Just to be clear though, I don't think pyroclasts or fire drakes are uncompetitive, quite the opposite! You just need to be able to make the most of them, and a delivery system is obviously key to that!

 

To add a spartan, I'd also get points from your HQ choice. You don't need a praetor for anything as Vulkan can bring a rite of war, so a basic centurion or useful consul (primus Medicae for the drakes) are probably better buys.

 

I'll be intrigued to see a new list.

[amazarak]

I totally understand not making a win at all costs 30k army - that certainly seems to defeat the whole idea of a 30k narrative in the first place. I do feel however that it's pretty fluffy for a detachment led by Vulkan to be able to have the ability to deal with fliers for instance, or have the ability to drop terminators into cc. What I love about salamanders and your list in particular, is you have the ability to squeeze that in and still have a fun and engaging army list.

 

For instance, a mortis contemptor would be *less* than your contemptor as fielded, freeing up more points for your transport for the heavy hitters.

 

To be honest, I'm excited for your force and would love to hear about your progress!

 

Amazarak. 

[Castiel]

I'm liking the idea of a Primus Medicae with the Firedrakes. It sounds suitably evil I intentionally left out anti-flier as none of the guys have any to use against me, so I'd rather use the points elsewhere.

I was also thinking earlier that I'll change out the power swords for power axes, as most sergeants will probably have the artificier armour, so the extra AP is probably a better option than power swords striking earlier in the combat.

[frozenfoods]

Yeah, it's really hard for me to justify bringing big V pretty much sub 3k. He eats up so many points in an army known for a single squad eating up 900 points, lol. But if you don't have to worry about covering your bases and you know no fliers are coming, then man, that's really nice. Frees up a lot of concern and lets you go full out foot.

I love the breacher squads, I hate the cost of the breacher squads. I just bought the models and are going to use them as tac marines, because they're so awesome looking. Overall though, sounds like you're going in the right direction.

[Castiel]

Right, here's a list revamp, but I still need to lose 10 points:

 

Vulkan 425

 

Primus Medicae: Cataphractii armor. 120

 

5 Firedrakes: M-c thunder hammer, 4 thunder hammers, 5 dragonscale ss. 350

 

Spartan Assault Tank: Armoured ceramite, Flare shield. 340

 

8 Pyroclasts: M-c power fist. 250

 

Contemptor: Dreadnought ccw, multi-melta. 175

 

Tactical Squad (10 men):  M-c power sword, artificier armour. 175

 

Tactical Squad (10 men):  M-c power sword, artificier armour. 175

[frozenfoods]

You could go to a Contemptor-Mortis with twin meltas for 155.

[amazarak]

One squad - 1235 points in a 2000pt game... ouch.

[Castiel]

You could go to a Contemptor-Mortis with twin meltas for 155.

 That's a thought. Does the mortis have to move every turn so it doesn't fire at the sky though?

 

One squad - 1235 points in a 2000pt game... ouch.

Yeah, its pretty hefty. :P A tough nut to deal with though. 2+/3+ with  5+ FNP. Vulkan will also get FNP due to the Primus too.

[Slips]

You could go to a Contemptor-Mortis with twin meltas for 155.

That's a thought. Does the mortis have to move every turn so it doesn't fire at the sky though?

One squad - 1235 points in a 2000pt game... ouch.

Yeah, its pretty hefty. A tough nut to deal with though. 2+/3+ with 5+ FNP. Vulkan will also get FNP due to the Primus too.

For the Mortis you could "cheese" it and say "he moves one inch forward then one inch back" so that he doesnt gain interceptor/skyfire.

Hopefully that 1235 point squad doesn't come up against Angron or D weapons.

[frozenfoods]

Yeah, that Mortis has to shuffle around, but honestly, doesn't really matter that much at all. You just have to have moved, move out an inch, then back an inch. Plus with twin meltas, you're gonna be moving that thing regardless of what you do, because they're meltas. If you want one that sits in the back and doesn't move you need to up it to Las, but that costs points, lol. Then you're up to 185 for that thing.

Also, the Pyros are awesome, but what I would do is forgo them and just go with a Tactical Support Squad. For the difference in points you get an extra flame template, and Rhinos for all three squads to make them more mobile and survivable.

[Castiel]

Yeah, that Mortis has to shuffle around, but honestly, doesn't really matter that much at all. You just have to have moved, move out an inch, then back an inch. Plus with twin meltas, you're gonna be moving that thing regardless of what you do, because they're meltas. If you want one that sits in the back and doesn't move you need to up it to Las, but that costs points, lol. Then you're up to 185 for that thing.

 

Also, the Pyros are awesome, but what I would do is forgo them and just go with a Tactical Support Squad. For the difference in points you get an extra flame template, and Rhinos for all three squads to make them more mobile and survivable.

Yeah, I've been thinking about buying the models for the pyroclasts but just using them as a Support squad.

[spu00sed]

You could drop the armoured ceramite from the spartan.

 

Everyone assumes that Spartans, especially those carrying really expensive units, will have it and assume their meltas will be useless against it and find another easier target.

 

Gotta love bluffing

[Castiel]

True, but for the few points that it is I'd rather save against any sneaky drop-podding melta support squads!

[Castiel]

Here's my latest list:

 

Vulkan 425

 

Primus Medicae: Cataphractii armor. 120

 

5 Firedrakes: M-c thunder hammer, 4 thunder hammers, 5 dragonscale ss. 350

 

Spartan Assault Tank: Armoured ceramite, Flare shield. 340

 

Contemptor-mortis: 2x multi-melta. 155

 

Tactical Squad (10 men):  M-c power sword, artificier armour. 175

Rhino: 35

 

Tactical Squad (10 men):  M-c power sword, artificier armour. 175

Rhino: 35

 

Legion Support Squad (5 men): M-c power fist, artificier armour. 155

Rhino: 35

[frozenfoods]

I too am using my Pyroclasts as a Tac Support squad, lol. If I could give them a rhino I'd consider them, but they're just to expensive for what makes literally zero sense fluff wise. If they're Artificer Armor, why can't 10 fit in a rhino? If they're terminator, where's my invuln that's not against meltas?

I've got you at 1960 here building this list. From what I'm seeing though, you're really mixing the support squad up. If you could take that PF without giving up the flamer, that'd be fine, but the time when that one PF hit will save you as opposed to another flamer template... I dunno. Plus it creates a huge disconnect with what you're building for. This is a close ranged murder unit, the entire point is that 5d3 hits should keep you out of charges to begin with, forcing them to shoot them off the table or lose a ton of guys just to kill off one min squad. If you use this thing to go after a tank either everything's gone horribly wrong or it's just not optimal targeting.

Changing the squad I'd include Melta Bombs for sure. That's a great option for those everything's going tits up, time for a make or die attempt.

I would also upgrade the mortis to have twin lascannons. 24 inches max range, 12 inches to actually punch a hole in something, and not even twin linked... ehhhhh.

List as above, add Melta Bombs to the sergeants of all three squads, take the PF off the support serg, upg mortis to twin las, 2K flat.

[Castiel]

Good point about the Power fist, I forgot that he couldn't have both, so I bought it seeing as the pyroclast sergeant has one. I'll probably take that off.

 

Also thinking about ditching the contemptor and getting a Scorpius Whirlwind and then using the spare 70 points for something else.

[frozenfoods]

Honestly, I'm just gonna say it. Vulkan leaves you with too few points to go around. A whirlwind is nice, but it's light. It's the only threat you have. Either they can do something about the Spartan, then you lose, or rhey can't and you gotta get them all around the board while everything else dies.

[Castiel]

Honestly, I'm just gonna say it. Vulkan leaves you with too few points to go around. A whirlwind is nice, but it's light. It's the only threat you have. Either they can do something about the Spartan, then you lose, or rhey can't and you gotta get them all around the board while everything else dies.

At 2000pts I know that the guys I'll be playing will also be fielding their Primarchs, which is why I'm not too worried about including Vulkan.

[primalexile]

Any progress updates?  I am building my 30k Salamanders and love the idea of using Vulkan!  Firedrake, Primus Medicae, Vulkan in a spartan seems evil and awesome!  Have you come across fliers?  They seem fairly heavy in my meta.  

 

I would love to see your revisions.

 

Thanks,

Primal