Castiel's 30k Legion Choice Matrix

[Castiel]

Hey Everyone,

 

I thought this might be of interest to you, this is the table I made when I was trying to choose my Legion, I thought it might be helpful to other people too. I stress that some of the things in the table are the way I perceive the Legions, rather than strictly based on fact, although it is based on established background as much as possible. Any suggestions for amendments are of course welcome!

 

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg605/Castiel25/Armourplan_zpsade1b4e9.png

[grand_master85]

If I were to change anything, I'd change the typical armour mk for Imperial Fists, Iron Warriors, Iron Hands and possibly Salamanders (they have their own mk III upgrade torsos and mk III unit). I'd potentially have World Eaters as mk II. Not all of Horus' favourites would have used predominantly mk IV, and the World Eaters have a lot of mk II upgrade kits/units.

I'd also possibly have Raven Guard as mk VI, as they were prototyping this at the time of the Heresy and they hyave a lot of examples of mk VI armour in their schemes in Extermination

[Daemon2027]

Also Alpha Legion use mark VI a lot to. And their specialist terminators are in cataphractii.

[Castiel]

If I were to change anything, I'd change the typical armour mk for Imperial Fists, Iron Warriors, Iron Hands and possibly Salamanders (they have their own mk III upgrade torsos and mk III unit). I'd potentially have World Eaters as mk II. Not all of Horus' favourites would have used predominantly mk IV, and the World Eaters have a lot of mk II upgrade kits/units.

I'd also possibly have Raven Guard as mk VI, as they were prototyping this at the time of the Heresy and they hyave a lot of examples of mk VI armour in their schemes in Extermination

Thanks for the response. I take your point on World Eaters and Raven Guard, Mk 2 definitely suits WE and Mk 6 wasn't on my radar, but definitely suits the RG. I didn't use Mk 3 as the primary Mk for any of the legions as it is stated somewhere that Mk 3 was never the primary armour for any of the legions due to the difficulty in producing it, so I stuck to mk 2 for those legions (that said, all of my Salamanders are in mk 3 )

Also Alpha Legion use mark VI a lot to. And their specialist terminators are in cataphractii.

I did not know that, thanks!

[grand_master85]

Pehraps the line on mk III has changed. There are a lot of mk III specific stuff for 3 of those 4 Legions I listed (it is used a lot with siege specialists for the extra protection it provides etc).

Aye, my own Sallies are all pretty much mk III too, as are (for a nice change) my Alpha Legion

[Marshal Rohr]

Mark 3 isn't difficult to make, it's time consuming to maintain. So are tanks, but people use them anyway.

[Reyner]

As others have said I would probably put Iron Warriors as MK3 but I would also change Ultramarines to MK2. They were out of the way and a fair bit of the artwork from the Heresy books show them in MK2 (Know No Fear, Unremembered Empire, Betrayer, Mark of Calth) and the awesome Forge World poster (which I am going to steal the scheme from).

[Leif Bearclaw]

By the end of the Great Crusade, I'd be somewhat surprised if any of the Legions was predominately using MkII armour. When even RG (I'm thinking First Heretic here, not Thorpe's work, as I haven't read them) are using MkIII, I'd expect MkII to be in a distinct minority amongst the Legions, primarily used by long serving veterans and as a stopgap measure when armour is damaged. I also think some sources are too strict with the rarity of MkIV, as MkV/VI was already in development, most Legions should have sufficient quantities of MkIV at thier disposal.

 

Also, I don't think most Legions had a 'preferred' Terminator armour pattern. We know the TDA project was ongoing, so most of their Terminator forces were probably a mishmash of patterns. Case in point, I believe Extermination states the AL Terminator assault on Paramer utilised five different TDA marks. The only hint we've had of a mark losing favour was some Legions phasing out Cataphracti, but that hasn't been mentioned in any of the Legion specific FW fluff yet so that leaves a somewhat limited pool of Legions left (my money's on the Scars, and maybe the BAs).

 

One last quibble, the Space Wolf Colours. Heresy era was dark grey, not the lighter blue-grey of 40k. Plus the red and yellow on 40k Wolves is pack type markings, and it appears the Claw/Hunter/Fang structure wasn't (and realistically couldn't, given the timescale) used by the VI Legion. The only FW SW pic I'm aware of had very little red (there's more gold than red), and no yellow. The pic's in post 14 of this thread:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?372577-Horus-Heresy-Weekender-Updates

[Daemon2027]

It does say in Extermination, under the XXth legionnaire in mark II, that it was very unusual for that mark to be used so late in the crusade.

[Fire Golem]

That it does. Although I'm going to use a bit of it in my XXth, partly because of that same picture, and the fact that MkII armour is awesome. Still going mainly MkIV though.

 

But yeah I think by the end of the Great Crusade, most legions would've been pretty well equipped with MkIV. I know it says that the loyalists were less so, but I still think they'd have access to quite a bit of it.

[depthcharge12]

I'd say for the Dark Angels that they leaned towards Cataphractii TDA just out of pure opinion.

 

I would think that they were mainly supplied with only mkII and mkIII armor as they were on Horus' naughty list, so they wouldn't be given the mkIV in any large numbers - hell, Horus didn't even really bother turning the Lion!

[Daemon2027]

I dont like the mark II legs except on the command set. I do like the assault torsos a lot though.

[blackoption]

I have to question if the Ultramarines large quantities of the MK 4 armor.   The whole reason they developed the Praetor pattern power armor (Ref Know no fear) was because of supply issues and it was necessary to use their own.  They had planned the Praetor armor taking an offical MK (potentially V or VI had the HH not happened).  One of the reasons I have with held starting my legion force is that I want them to be using Praetor armor.

[Castiel]

Ok, gonna wade in here with replies!

 

The terminator armour mks are just what I thought would look cool with the Legion as I pictured them, for example I thought that the smooth lines of the Tartartos armour suited the Ultramarines look, whereas the brutality of Cataphractii armour felt better with the Iron Warriors.

 

The main armour mks is based mainly on the HH novels where I could find references, avoiding mk 3 based on that bit of background that I read (will try and find the source for that if I can).

 

I'd like to stress again that this isn't meant to be a definitive list of how the legions should look, I thought people might be interested to see how I went about picturing the Legions to choose the one that I liked. That said though, the suggestions are great, keep them coming!

 

Finally, here's an updated matrix!

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg605/Castiel25/Matrix2_zpsf8d7cfe1.png

[Black Cohort]

I would say imperial fists should be either both Mks of terminator armour or Cataphractii. Being more durable is a huge advantage in siege warfare and they have other units that can be mobile.

[Solar_Pattern]

I would say imperial fists should be either both Mks of terminator armour or Cataphractii. Being more durable is a huge advantage in siege warfare and they have other units that can be mobile.

IDK I didn't see any reference to Tartos in "Crimson Fist" but instead they had Cataphratchii.

 

Also in regards to RG, I'm slightly sceptical of Tartos being used without Cataphratchii. I'm pretty confident that they also used mostly MKVI during the heresy (and arguably in the late stages of TGC in very limited numbers). However I'm not saying that they didn't use MKIV, just that they used Corvus more often.

 

Now as for what bolter pattern most legion used/ preferred.....

[Atia]

Also don't forget Indomitus pattern Terminator armour, atleast the Imperial Fists used a lot of them:

 

"Notably, they also were among the first to field significant numbers of the Indomitus pattern produced by the forges of Deimos."

HH p. 3:Extermination, page 62

[Hyaenidae]

Newly-Promoted Staff Sergeant Mohawk says "Mk VI is the best plate."

[Leif Bearclaw]

Newly-Promoted Staff Sergeant Mohawk says "Mk VI is the best plate."

I've got to ask, because it's awesome, how did you make that axe? While it may be because of the perspective of the photo, it looks smaller, and therefore more realistic, than the normal 40k axes.

[Hyaenidae]

Grey Knight sword hilt, pinned to a standard tactical sergeant's axe.  :)

 

Easy, unique, and badass looking. Not every weapon in 40k needs to be taller than the wielder, lol.

[Leif Bearclaw]

I have to question if the Ultramarines large quantities of the MK 4 armor.   The whole reason they developed the Praetor pattern power armor (Ref Know no fear) was because of supply issues and it was necessary to use their own.  They had planned the Praetor armor taking an offical MK (potentially V or VI had the HH not happened).  One of the reasons I have with held starting my legion force is that I want them to be using Praetor armor.

Remember, this is the XIII Legion. I can see them receiving the 'Legion Standard' amount of MkIV armour, probably enough to equip tens of thousands of Legionaries, but given the size of the Ultras, that wouldn't equip the same proportion of their men as their fellow Legions. Hence the need to develop advanced armour marks of their own. For the record, haven't read Know No Fear, but that's my interpretation of the facts I'm aware of.

[Castiel]

I would say imperial fists should be either both Mks of terminator armour or Cataphractii. Being more durable is a huge advantage in siege warfare and they have other units that can be mobile.

That's a good point actually. I imagined Tartaros fitting in with the less brutal than IW aesthetic of the Fists, but actually thinking about it from a background and practical perspective Cataphractii armour would make more sense.

 

 

I would say imperial fists should be either both Mks of terminator armour or Cataphractii. Being more durable is a huge advantage in siege warfare and they have other units that can be mobile.

IDK I didn't see any reference to Tartos in "Crimson Fist" but instead they had Cataphratchii.

 

Also in regards to RG, I'm slightly sceptical of Tartos being used without Cataphratchii. I'm pretty confident that they also used mostly MKVI during the heresy (and arguably in the late stages of TGC in very limited numbers). However I'm not saying that they didn't use MKIV, just that they used Corvus more often.

 

Now as for what bolter pattern most legion used/ preferred.....

 

Again I based my terminator choice on what I thought would look cool for RG, smooth armour = no corners and hard edges to catch and reflect the light. Seeing as RG prefer stealth and mobility Tartaros made more sense to me. I'm not saying that they wouldn't use Cataphractii by any means, but Tartaros seemed more fitting with their legion's character.

 

Also don't forget Indomitus pattern Terminator armour, atleast the Imperial Fists used a lot of them:

 

"Notably, they also were among the first to field significant numbers of the Indomitus pattern produced by the forges of Deimos."

HH p. 3:Extermination, page 62

 

I didn't include Indomitus as there is no 30k model for it yet. Definitely an option though.

[Slips]

You could argue that Gorgon Terminators are in Heavily Modified Indomitus; so there technically is a model for Indomitus. :p

[depthcharge12]

See I still feel that Dark Angels prefer Cataphractii :) I believe one of their members in 40k has a relic cataphractii helmet

 

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/treacyjohn2/7cd6ee2610c7bd0a193c4bf153050649_zps5d6a90b7.jpg