BA Today

[Jolemai]

 

Blood & Zeal Open Stratagems link:

 

• HS stratagem
• 19th March, 2359 UTC - 26th March, 2259 UTC

[Spagunk]

It's a shame fliers and heavies weren't in the same category...

[Spagunk]

Also, I really wish heavy plasma incinerators weren't so much worse than assault/regular variety.

[Panzer]

I actually rate then higher than the Assault variant. No S8 is really bad for Plasma.

[Blindhamster]

Agreed.

 

Regular or heavy plasma

 

Regular or assault bolt rifle

 

Imo

[Pendent]

The assault variant is the strongest by a pretty wide margin within the 15-24" band due to sheer volume of shots. They do a pretty good job of shooting from outside the really effective range of most infantry weapons.

For my money the heavy variant is the worst unless you're playing Dark Angels. It's the best of the three in the 24-36" band (although not significantly from 24-30") but under these ideal firing conditions they just don't do a lot of damage for what you play. I'm also pretty wary of anything that gives plasma weapons a penalty to hit for obvious reasons.

 

Overall the balance between the three does seem pretty appropriate at least, with each having a strong niche

[Blindhamster]

The assault variant is the strongest by a pretty wide margin within the 15-24" band due to sheer volume of shots. They do a pretty good job of shooting from outside the really effective range of most infantry weapons.

 

For my money the heavy variant is the worst unless you're playing Dark Angels. It's the best of the three in the 24-36" band (although not significantly from 24-30") but under these ideal firing conditions they just don't do a lot of damage for what you play. I'm also pretty wary of anything that gives plasma weapons a penalty to hit for obvious reasons.

 

Overall the balance between the three does seem pretty appropriate at least, with each having a strong niche

The assault versions lower strength means that it's limited to anti MEQ, even when overcharged it's going to struggle vs most vehicles. And if you run and shoot the assault version it has a to-hit penalty as well. If you aren't running and shooting the regular version is typically better again.

 

Heavy at least has a good strength without overcharging and the range that it can typically stay still at the back of the table and be out of most enemy weapon ranges.

 

Regular is the best with both bolt rifle and plasma incinerator because regular is the all rounder

[Pendent]

 

The assault variant is the strongest by a pretty wide margin within the 15-24" band due to sheer volume of shots. They do a pretty good job of shooting from outside the really effective range of most infantry weapons.

 

For my money the heavy variant is the worst unless you're playing Dark Angels. It's the best of the three in the 24-36" band (although not significantly from 24-30") but under these ideal firing conditions they just don't do a lot of damage for what you play. I'm also pretty wary of anything that gives plasma weapons a penalty to hit for obvious reasons.

 

Overall the balance between the three does seem pretty appropriate at least, with each having a strong niche

The assault versions lower strength means that it's limited to anti MEQ, even when overcharged it's going to struggle vs most vehicles. And if you run and shoot the assault version it has a to-hit penalty as well. If you aren't running and shooting the regular version is typically better again.

 

Heavy at least has a good strength without overcharging and the range that it can typically stay still at the back of the table and be out of most enemy weapon ranges.

 

Regular is the best with both bolt rifle and plasma incinerator because regular is the all rounder

 

 

It really is all about the range bands. Within its ideal range of 15-24" the assault variant gets double the number of shots that either other option gets which makes an enormous difference.

 

 

Let's say we compare five man squads of all three three variants with an overcharge firing at a T7 target within that 15-24" band.

 

The assault plasma incinerator gets 2 shots per model that wound on 4's. So we get 6.66 hits, and 3.33 wounds

The Rapid Fire gets a single shot per model that wounds on 3's. We get 3.33 hits and 2.22 wounds

The heavy variety gets the same damage output here as the rapid fire.

 

Clearly due to weight of fire the assault variant is the strongest here.

 

Against a T8 target it's a bit more interesting

Assault gets 10 shots wounding on 5's. 6.66 hits but only 2.22 wounds

Rapid Fire gets 5 shots wounding on 4's. 3.33 hits and 1.66 wounds

Heavy gets 5 shots wounding on 3s. 3.33 hits and 2.22 wounds.

 

The heavy and assault incinerators have the same damage output against that tougher target, but the assault is stronger against literally everything else and thus probably makes the most sense to use.

 

 

Again, this is only within the ideal range for the assault plasma incinerator. Within 15" rapid fire is the clear winner and outside of 24" assault is a clear loser, although I will say that's complicated by the fact that the assault can move freely while the heavy really cannot. 15-24" is a very good place for a tough unit of infantry to sit, though, because most of the really effective anti-infantry weapons are relatively close ranged for their most effective profiles (18" at most). This allows you to either kite or otherwise force your opponent to move in ways that you desire in an effort to come to grips with your plasma fire.

 

I think overall I still like the rapid fire variant a bit better because it's more versatile with the longer range and ability to melt tough targets very effectively within 15." You're doing yourself a disfavor if you think the assault variant doesn't have a compelling use-case though.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Pendent

[Spagunk]

My plan is to have two 5 man regular plasma and one assault plasma. Figure I need to be capitalizing on movement and having the squad pushing forward with either intercessors or regular bolter marines means I can keep my regular plasma in midfield/backline to deter backfield campers. I honestly don't know if that will work but that's my plan anyway.

[Paladin777]

Ironically, the rapid fire type is the one you want to be pushing forward with while the assault you’d want to sit back and shoot near max range.

[Blindhamster]

Assault one has higher risk of overheating due to more shots, and the whole thing of being able to run and shoot really doesn't feel like a benefit when it means you overheard 33.33% of your shots.

 

Like you said, I'm not keen on to hit penalties on a weapon I plan to overheat regularly. Especially because BA don't have easy access to rerolls on all failed to hits at range (Dante is basically it).

 

The reason I prefer heavy is that they don't really need to move, they've got good range and enough strength in their base shots that you don't even have to overcharge them all the time for them to be a threat - again, there is an element of "it depends on what you're shooting at" of course.

 

 

Note, I'm not saying I think assault are never useful. Like everything, they can be. But again I suppose it depends on the army they're in. As I've been running pure primaris since 8th ed, I prefer the higher strength of the other options, and the rapid fire version for units that are intended to move about.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Blindhamster

[Silverson]

I just noticed deathguard v blood angels over on warhammer tv (twitch) for AdeptiCon if anyone would like it.

 

 

Never mind it turns out the title just changed. Sort for the wrong info.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Silverson

[toaae]

If you sub to the twitch channel, you can watch it again.

I caught most of it. Was a beautiful Lamenters army, with DC, SG, the Sanguinor, Mephiston, Lemartes, Slamguinius, scouts. Pretty much what we're starting to come to expect from BA in a tourney.

 

His opening turn went well. Mortarion was already dead when I turned the stream on. He lost a lot of momentum in the following turns, but by then, he had built enough of a lead for an easy victory.

[Captain_Krash]

Hmmmm is it available to those with out a subscription...

 

Krash

[Panzer]

Hmmmm is it available to those with out a subscription...

 

Krash

 

Nop. Re-watching streams is only for accounts with a subscription to that channel.

[Indefragable]

My concern with Captain Smash builds is that they seem to be SO good, they’re “the only” way to run a competitive army. And that usually means people gripe and gripes lead to GW merging things without building up other options.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I love Slamguinius and the all infantry builds we can rock but it makes me nervous if basically the same build shows up all the time (not to mention it exponentially increases the chance that opponents develop a repetoire of ways to counter).

[toaae]

My concern with Captain Smash builds is that they seem to be SO good, they’re “the only” way to run a competitive army. And that usually means people gripe and gripes lead to GW merging things without building up other options.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I love Slamguinius and the all infantry builds we can rock but it makes me nervous if basically the same build shows up all the time (not to mention it exponentially increases the chance that opponents develop a repetoire of ways to counter).

 

If it was leading to wild success, I could see the concern. But we haven't seen that. I'd look at the TH-Jump Pack Captain like Guilliman: a key part of the most (only?) successful list of a codex, but that list isn't a world beater.

[Panzer]

It's also not like its a unit that gets spammed like the T'au Commander. Captain Smash is pretty much a once-per-army unit which is totally fine to be strong.

[Pendent]

He's also relatively simple to counter with the careful use of screening units. I was worried initially when I saw how well the Blood Angels lists were doing at LVO but after more time to reflect as well at 5-6 more games of my own with our Codex I feel like we're in a pretty balanced place. We've got a variety of decent builds but none of them are game winners without careful play on our part. Now that the Tau codex has been released I also think we're going to struggle a lot more on the tournament scene as they are (as ever) a very good counter to our armies playstyle Not that I'm about to complain too much- even 4ish months after our release I'm struck each time I play by how much I enjoy our rules.

[dread05]

Today I found out I have a really bad habbit. I go back on finished models, painted and what not, and start bickering with them. For example, I was not happy with how an arm was glued on a painted champion, so I snaped it off and tried to glue it again, which resulted on hours of trying to fix the mess. Does anyone else do that? How do I stop? D:

[toaae]

Today I found out I have a really bad habbit. I go back on finished models, painted and what not, and start bickering with them. For example, I was not happy with how an arm was glued on a painted champion, so I snaped it off and tried to glue it again, which resulted on hours of trying to fix the mess. Does anyone else do that? How do I stop? D:

 

"Art is never finished, only abandoned" - Leonardo da Vinci

 

I, too, have a similar issue. Arms are a constant source of my disappointment, since I paint them separate from the body, and sometimes they just don't seem to fit right. Or like yesterday, I discovered I forgot to finish painting underneath my Sergeant's bolter for my scouts. I'm now torn between going back and touching up a spot that is only visible if you pick up the mini and inspect it (in which case, you'll see other issues since I paint to a table top level), or just try to ignore it, knowing full well that since I know there is a mistake, it's going to drive me nuts. In the end, you just have to decide if the time and risk is worth whatever you can gain out of going back and trying to fix something.

 

 

Decals: it's been ages since I used transfers, as I haven't been using any on my orks. Now I'm rediscovering why I choose to (poorly) freehand the company and squad symbol when I last did my BA. But I want the clean, uniform look of the decals, so today I'm getting some of that Microset/Microsol stuff and seeing how it works.

[Karhedron]

Decals: it's been ages since I used transfers, as I haven't been using any on my orks. Now I'm rediscovering why I choose to (poorly) freehand the company and squad symbol when I last did my BA. But I want the clean, uniform look of the decals, so today I'm getting some of that Microset/Microsol stuff and seeing how it works.

Good luck. I have had good results using the stuff over a surface prepared with a coat of gloss acrylic varnish and then varnish over the top to seal it once the transfer is thoroughly dry.

[toaae]

 

Decals: it's been ages since I used transfers, as I haven't been using any on my orks. Now I'm rediscovering why I choose to (poorly) freehand the company and squad symbol when I last did my BA. But I want the clean, uniform look of the decals, so today I'm getting some of that Microset/Microsol stuff and seeing how it works.

Good luck. I have had good results using the stuff over a surface prepared with a coat of gloss acrylic varnish and then varnish over the top to seal it once the transfer is thoroughly dry.

 

 

Thank you. I did some research, went out and got some GW 'Ardcoat and Microset/sol, and it worked great. The only downside is even after my finishing spray of Munitorum Varnish, the shoulderpads were still glossy. Well, just the right shoulderpad, since I'm using the molded BA shoulderpads on the left. Still something I need to work out.

[brother_b]

 

 

Decals: it's been ages since I used transfers, as I haven't been using any on my orks. Now I'm rediscovering why I choose to (poorly) freehand the company and squad symbol when I last did my BA. But I want the clean, uniform look of the decals, so today I'm getting some of that Microset/Microsol stuff and seeing how it works.

Good luck. I have had good results using the stuff over a surface prepared with a coat of gloss acrylic varnish and then varnish over the top to seal it once the transfer is thoroughly dry.

 

 

Thank you. I did some research, went out and got some GW 'Ardcoat and Microset/sol, and it worked great. The only downside is even after my finishing spray of Munitorum Varnish, the shoulderpads were still glossy. Well, just the right shoulderpad, since I'm using the molded BA shoulderpads on the left. Still something I need to work out.

 

 

Try to limit the amount of gloss coat you put down initially (ardcoat, whatever you're using), and cut the smallest size transfer you can. I know what you mean, sometimes that little film of transfer is still visible. I also like to put down a second coat of microset (sol, the one that preps the surface) after the first has dried, and I follow the instructions so press flat with a wet sponge or whatever.

[Karhedron]

Thank you. I did some research, went out and got some GW 'Ardcoat and Microset/sol, and it worked great. The only downside is even after my finishing spray of Munitorum Varnish, the shoulderpads were still glossy. Well, just the right shoulderpad, since I'm using the molded BA shoulderpads on the left. Still something I need to work out.

Once the transfer has dried, apply a sealing coat of satin or matt acrylic varnish. That makes it much less work for the final spray to dull down.

 

I prefer Halfords car laquer for finishing my models. They have gloss, satin or matt. Satin looks good on power-armoured models IMO.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/gallery/sizes/227535-img-9773/large/

Edited March 26, 2018 by Karhedronuk