BA Today

[Indefragable]

The more I ponder it, the more concerned I am for Sanguinary Guard.

 

• Death Company: raw killier
• Vanguard Veterans: storm shields (in any form) and thunder hammers
• Bladeguard: the new hotness and quite durable

 

Where does that leave SG?

 

In my own ruminations, SG need to outdo all of the above with resilience (after all, they have to survive long enough to get to their position). I would love to see Heirs of Azkaellon switch to be re-rolling failed saves instead of To Hit rolls to get to this effect. Especially if they got a native invuln....<drools>. However, based on the above list, there's already two units that do defense well (at least from an internal balance perspective), VV and BG. Thus, I can see the mindset that SG should up their killiness to give more balance to the Offense end of the see-saw. 

[SnorriSnorrison]

Did we really need toning down? Outside of Captain Smash, we weren't that powerful (and he was a hard-counter for big threats rather than a game-winner on his own). Death Company were glass hammers and SG were good but expensive to build around with no Invulnerable save.Anything in our list that was not melee-orientated was no better than any vanilla codex units but without benefits that other Chapters might have to shooting from their traits and stratagems. Even Space Wolves had a couple of handy strats to boost their shooting (Keen Senses, Wolf's Eye) but we were pretty much mono-build.

No brother, C:SM did :) I do see how my post could’ve been misleading!

 

Yeah BA are in a weird spot sometimes. You go with the basic C:SM units and might as well not use our Faction Keyword since other chapters have better traits for shooting anyways. Real close combat options are missing or lacking jump packs. When you use our own units, their steep price and to be fair low durability pushes them into one-trick lists with an alpha strike of DC or a Smashy and then something in turn 2. It’s usually not enough if you build a balanced list, and then people start spamming Sanguinary Guard...

[Karhedron]

Would 3 wounds be enough to make SG against 2W DC and VVets? I do agree that they look like they might be an in awkward spot if they get no buffs.

[SnorriSnorrison]

They’d be pretty hardcore with the banner, if it survives the conversion to the supplement. With only 2 attacks, they’re very basic though and need constant supervision from the Sanguinor, especially with new and jacked up points which mean smaller units.

 

In the end, why would you use SG if DC and VanVets have 2 wounds as well? They can use powerfists and a whole plethora of weapons, including storm shields for the veterans.

 

In my opinion, if SG don’t get the extra wound and stay the same otherwise, I don’t think they’ll be in high demand...

[BluejayJunior]

Even with staying at 2W, Sanguinary Guard would still be good for taking out multi wound units. Especially if we keep the strat to ensure they do a minimum of 2D per attack. I think they stay useable with their d3 damage weapons. 

[SnorriSnorrison]

Unless powerfists are going to D2 flat, in which case you might as well take VV...

[Indefragable]

There's a ton of design space potential for SG, as acknowledged by the Blood of Baal stratagems that exist for them 

 

Hidden Content

 

• -1 To Hit in melee when wearing Death Masks (which are free now)
• Ignore Cover to Angelus Boltguns
• Melee attacks are D:2 instead of D:D3 

 

If those were moved to Datasheet instead of Stratagems, then that would make them interesting for sure. I still dream about a native 4++ or 5++ invuln and Heirs of Azkaellon becomes "re-roll failed saves in 6" of WL" instead....but I'll shut up about that now.

 

Hidden Content

...so T4 2W (let alone 3W) 2+/4++ and -1 To Hit in melee dudes would be pretty darn good, but then when you get them re-rolling failed saves near WL, they get into OP tier......unless they are costed appropriately which would make them 40-50pts each easily. Which is fine in my book because then you're paying 200pts (1/10th of your whole army) for 4x dudes who pretty much need to babysit your WL to get their value.  They might even need to be more than that, which even still, I'm fine with.

 

That almost sounds fluffy, huh? 

 

 

But of course my design philosophy leans towards give everyone tons of cool rules and just price them appropriately; we should have to make conscious choices deciding between one really cool unit or 4 normal units for the same cost et al. 

[Majkhel]

My own little happiness :)


Also (once I stop doing various robotic noises) finishing my custom-built H-Intercessor, MM Eradicator and then VanVets are on the table.

[Indefragable]

Ok...someone please explain it to me like I'm a golden retriever:

 

What books do I need to play 9th Ed?

 

• BRB
• Field Manual 
• Chapter Approved (not the same as above)
• Codex
• Codex Supplement
• Warhammer App if you want any of the above in digital format*
• *but is the only way to get the lore/fluff in hardback book form? Most of my stuff is in Enhanced eBook form in iBooks...
• *...and what is the trade-off for paying for the app vs the free version? So the only way to get the Codex into the app is to buy a hardback and enter the code....so what's the point of paying for the app if you don't care about the old (soon to be obsolete) Codices from 8th? 

 

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/5wWf7H89PisM6An8UAU/giphy-downsized.gif 

[BluejayJunior]

Chapter Approved is the grand tournament packet. It also has the core rules in there. So depending on what missions you're doing, you would need either CA or the main rule book. Don't need both.

The field manual has all the points, so that is somewhat necessary. Unless you're relying on Battlescribe or something. But you wouldn't need to take that with you to games if you're building your list beforehand.

You need the codex and the supplement (Blood of Baal still counts until the new one is released I believe).

 

The app is in somewhat of a weird place. For one, I'm not sure if you have to have a subscription to use the codes you get in the new books. And as new codexes come out, you will get less material for the subscription. I'm not sure what rules are available right now without it, since I am currently subscribed. The big thing will eventually be the list builder. I like the app and have a lot of hope for it's future usefulness with list building and hopefully other features like crusade rosters, ingame scoring, etc. (me wishlisting, I'm not sure what their plans are). 

[Leonaides]

New get-you-by pdfs available on warhammer community now.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/05/codex-updates-wargear-profiles-and-rules/

[BluejayJunior]

New get-you-by pdfs available on warhammer community now.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/05/codex-updates-wargear-profiles-and-rules/

Discussion is ongoing in the BA and 9th Thread. 

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Even Space Wolves had a couple of handy strats to boost their shooting (Keen Senses, Wolf's Eye) but we were pretty much mono-build.

And True Grit.

[smileyjim]

I'd use battlescribe for points, bugger buying a book that will change soon anyway or may have already. games-workshop has the missions and secondaries from the tourney book. I'll buy the BA codex but I'm not keen on shelling out for the SM one too. The whole idea of getting 50 different books just to get rules isnot great. Speaking off if anyone knows a complied screenshots link I'd love to know ;)

[Jolemai]

New Unit of the Week entry:

• Relic Sicaran Omega Tank Destroyer

[Leonaides]

So, technically it was the day before yesterday but sang guard are rather nasty now with the fixed damage...

 

4 man squad with an inferno pistol took down a storm raven in mid-flight in 1 round of shooting and cc. Templar player was a bit miffed that his crusader squad just had to stand around and get punched out the next turn too.

 

We decided that the power fist armed marine supermaned his way through the cockpit as the finishing move while the sword-armed marines chopped the wings off.

 

Only Angels may fly!

[Indefragable]

Those who have bought the SM Codex and put the code into the app....what do you think? How’s your experience?

 

I ask because I have the opportunity to pick it up today...but I’ve had half a mind to not get anything at all until seeing what our supplement contains.

[keeblerartillery]

Worked just fine for me!

[Blindhamster]

you reminded me to do mine, worked perfectly

[Jolemai]

New Unit of the Week entry:

• Deimos Pattern Relic Predator

[appiah4]

I haven't read a single 40K rule book since 7th Edition and when I today tried to watch a few videos on the SM codex today it sounded like complete gibberish to me.  I am completely out of the rules loop and I don't even know how to get back in, to be honest.. So today I sat and worked feeling old and depressed :(

[keeblerartillery]

Truly - it’s not difficult once you get into it. 8th drastically streamlined the rules. Watch a how to play video or two, with a rule book reference next to you, and you’ll be good!

[Charlo]

I haven't read a single 40K rule book since 7th Edition and when I today tried to watch a few videos on the SM codex today it sounded like complete gibberish to me.  I am completely out of the rules loop and I don't even know how to get back in, to be honest.. So today I sat and worked feeling old and depressed

 

Read the 9E core book, for a start?

[Xenith]

I haven't read a single 40K rule book since 7th Edition and when I today tried to watch a few videos on the SM codex today it sounded like complete gibberish to me.  I am completely out of the rules loop and I don't even know how to get back in, to be honest.. So today I sat and worked feeling old and depressed

 

Hey man, I was in the same position - I played maybe...6 games of 8th towards the end of the edition, total. As with many things, learning through play is better. I can advise getting the chapter approved compendium, which condenses the main rules down into a small book. That said, 9th ed rules are written 'lawyery' if that makes sense. They're long and wordy to try and cut down on misunderstanding, but it takes away from it somewhat. 

 

The overall game is still easier to understand and get into than 7th ed. 

[Karhedron]

I haven't read a single 40K rule book since 7th Edition and when I today tried to watch a few videos on the SM codex today it sounded like complete gibberish to me.  I am completely out of the rules loop and I don't even know how to get back in, to be honest.. So today I sat and worked feeling old and depressed

In the words of the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy "Don't Panic!"

 

40K has changed a bit since 7th and 9th but most of the changes actually occurred at the start of 8th. Here are the basic differences compared to what you may be used to.

• Movement: Movement is now a stat again meaning different units move at different speeds. This represents armies like Eldar being faster on their feet than lumbering Necrons.
• Shooting: Very similar to 7th, the only change is that the to-Hit roll can now be modified by certain abilities or features. For example, an aircraft moving fast will impose a -1 to-Hit penalty on anyone shooting at it. Certain HQs may give nearby units +1 to-Hit. These bonuses do not stack so are capped at a maximum of +1 or -1.
• Melee: Units now have a fixed "to-Hit" for melee just like for shooting rather than the 7th edition system of comparing relative weapon skills.
• Wounding: Similar to 7th but the strength vs toughness table has changed slightly. 6s always wound now meaning a lasgun can damage a Land Raider. Larger weapons now inflict multiple wounds, for example a Lascannon inflicts D6 wounds per failed save.
• Armour saves: These are no longer fixed. Instead, the AP of a weapon modifies the saving throw roll. For example, a Space Marine (3+ save) is wounded by a krak missile (AP-2). He would now need to roll a 5+ to save.
• Vehicles: No longer have different stat lines to other units. They now have wounds and toughness like everyone else. They tend to have a lot of wounds so heavier weapons are usually needed to chew through them efficiently.
• Psychic powers: Somewhat different, best to read the rules here.

The core rules are available for free on the GW website. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Lw4o3USx1R8sU7cQ.pdf Have a read of those and it should clear up a lot. As was always the case with 40K, a lot of the complexity comes from special rules for units and the missions. Git you head around the basics first and then you should be fine.

 

Personally I lost interest in 40K during 7th as it all seemed to revolve around unkillable deathstars of overlapping buffs. There is a lot less of this in 9th so I think games are more fun. Also there is more emphasis on the mission Objectives which makes games more interesting. It is hard to win just by killing the enemy.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Karhedron