BA Today

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

2nd 9th ed game in 2021 tonight! Hoping to lose with style and have another fun night.

[Majkhel]

Got a re-match against Crimson Fists and this time it was a clear win for Blood Angels (successor).
I'm still learning, especially how to position and move units around to get more advantages. 

Also re-basing my Redemptor dread as I finally got my hands on a base with proper size. 
Another thing I'm working on is a standard Apothecary backpack for my Sanguinary Priest. At the moment he only has a JP.  

Edited August 20, 2021 by Majkhel

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Another glorious loss!

However, i am really enjoying this edition and i keep forgetting marines can survive a little(i keep holding everyone back expecting each shooting round to be my army's last lol)

 

Trimming down my firstborn list and going to give it another go in September.

[Jolemai]

New Unit of the Week entry:

• Centurion Devastator Squad

As an aside, sorry about the break in the series recently; I've been experiencing irl upheavals

[Djangomatic82]

Hello Brothers. I'm wondering if anyone else has watched Jack Harpster's matches during the Orland GT last week. I really like the deliberate tactical shift from trying to charge and ROFL stomp everything, too one of very meticulous screening, deploying everything on board, out of LoS and only charging when necessary or as a means of getting free movement.

One thing that stuck out too me though, in his last game against Richard Seagler's Admech, was how susceptible he was to being wittled down through cheap bodies and attrition. It got me thinking that deliberatly trading in some of the high quality/high cost units (SG and VV's) for more low quality/low cost units (ex:ASM, maybe Reivers) might be usefull for this type of playstyle.

Looking at his list, he has 3 blocks of SG, all over 198points, as well as a unit of TH/SS VV's.  Dropping one unit of SG would open up points for 2 units of ASM w.JP. Yes, ASM are individually worse than SG, but, more bodies, point for point, might be a good thing overall. More bodies to screen. More units to grab or contest objectives. Cheaper units to send out to trade with chaff and such.

[dice4thedicegod]

Another issue with sang guard attrition is that (not being primaris,) they can’t transhuman, which really affects their longevity in my games.

 

I was pleasantly surprised how long death company intercessors stayed up (with judicious use of transhuman and 5+++ strata).

[Hintzy]

Hello Brothers. I'm wondering if anyone else has watched Jack Harpster's matches during the Orland GT last week. I really like the deliberate tactical shift from trying to charge and ROFL stomp everything, too one of very meticulous screening, deploying everything on board, out of LoS and only charging when necessary or as a means of getting free movement.

One thing that stuck out too me though, in his last game against Richard Seagler's Admech, was how susceptible he was to being wittled down through cheap bodies and attrition. It got me thinking that deliberatly trading in some of the high quality/high cost units (SG and VV's) for more low quality/low cost units (ex:ASM, maybe Reivers) might be usefull for this type of playstyle.

Looking at his list, he has 3 blocks of SG, all over 198points, as well as a unit of TH/SS VV's. Dropping one unit of SG would open up points for 2 units of ASM w.JP. Yes, ASM are individually worse than SG, but, more bodies, point for point, might be a good thing overall. More bodies to screen. More units to grab or contest objectives. Cheaper units to send out to trade with chaff and such.

That's a really interesting suggestion actually. I've had similar experiences in competitive games with just not being able to trade efficiently against cheaper bodied armies.

[Djangomatic82]

 

Hello Brothers. I'm wondering if anyone else has watched Jack Harpster's matches during the Orland GT last week. I really like the deliberate tactical shift from trying to charge and ROFL stomp everything, too one of very meticulous screening, deploying everything on board, out of LoS and only charging when necessary or as a means of getting free movement.

One thing that stuck out too me though, in his last game against Richard Seagler's Admech, was how susceptible he was to being wittled down through cheap bodies and attrition. It got me thinking that deliberatly trading in some of the high quality/high cost units (SG and VV's) for more low quality/low cost units (ex:ASM, maybe Reivers) might be usefull for this type of playstyle.

Looking at his list, he has 3 blocks of SG, all over 198points, as well as a unit of TH/SS VV's. Dropping one unit of SG would open up points for 2 units of ASM w.JP. Yes, ASM are individually worse than SG, but, more bodies, point for point, might be a good thing overall. More bodies to screen. More units to grab or contest objectives. Cheaper units to send out to trade with chaff and such.

That's a really interesting suggestion actually. I've had similar experiences in competitive games with just not being able to trade efficiently against cheaper bodied armies.

 

Yeah, that's what really struck me. I've been watching the rest of his GT games this weekend, one against Drukhari, one against Death Watch (This is damn beautiful to watch for the tactical acumen of the placement in the movement phase,) and finally, against Admech.

I'm wondering if there is a break point on SG to bring, like how few can you bring for his type of list before you begin to notice the loss. He ran 20 SG, 2x7, 1x6. I don't know if reducing the size of the groups is advisable, maybe do probabilities of how many SG you need to have a 80% chance of killing various popular units in the meta right now, then work down from there and replace whatever you took out with ASM bodies, or something.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Djangomatic82

[Hintzy]

I had to remind myself how much ASM squads cost (100pts with JP). Then I was shocked to remember they still only have 1 attack per model, base. For only 25pts more per 5 , DC with Chainswords may be the better choice. But then Elite slots become the issue, of course. 5 ASM, not in Assault Doctrine, cannot kill a unit of 5 Sisters, on average, whereas 5 DC can. Sisters being my local meta menace currently.

 

But then maybe you don't want, or need, to kill 5. Then you can wrap and/or rely on morale to finish them.

 

Another factor that added to Jack's success, and Richard's melee Ad Mech, was the terrain. If your local meta doesn't have the terrain to hide even more MSU, it might be a moot point.

[Majkhel]

From my limited experience I can only say that I've been reducing number of characters and their upgrades in order to bump other units' numbers (or outright buy more units) on several occasions.

 

Sadly ASM are currently set on a short path to "legends" imo. And at the same time boy, how we miss JPs on Primaris stabby Infantry.

[Karhedron]

I had to remind myself how much ASM squads cost (100pts with JP). Then I was shocked to remember they still only have 1 attack per model, base. For only 25pts more per 5 , DC with Chainswords may be the better choice. But then Elite slots become the issue, of course. 5 ASM, not in Assault Doctrine, cannot kill a unit of 5 Sisters, on average, whereas 5 DC can. Sisters being my local meta menace currently.

ASM do indeed seem particularly lacklustre as a dedicated melee unit. I would also much rather turn JP Death Company. I find that the lack of Elite slots is not usually a problem as 6 slots is pretty generous and I tend to run out of points before I run out of units. 3 FA slots however is more restrictive as I love my Plasmaceptors and MM Attack bikes.

[Majkhel]

I find that the lack of Elite slots is not usually a problem as 6 slots is pretty generous and I tend to run out of points before I run out of units.

I agree. it gets cramped only we we start adding dreads or too many different units doing basically similar things (VanVets/SG/DC/Termies or Termies/BGV)  or support characters like Judiciar, Ancient.

If we keep it simple, it's perfectly manageable

[Xenith]

 

Looking at his list, he has 3 blocks of SG, all over 198points, as well as a unit of TH/SS VV's.  Dropping one unit of SG would open up points for 2 units of ASM w.JP. Yes, ASM are individually worse than SG, but, more bodies, point for point, might be a good thing overall. More bodies to screen. More units to grab or contest objectives. Cheaper units to send out to trade with chaff and such.

 

Rather than ASM, I'd add in 5x vanvets with 2x chainswords. 110 vs 85, but you get 21 base attacks vs 11 for 25pts more. 

 

Otherwise if you're chaff clearing, 5x ASM, 2x flamer, hand flamer for 100pts can work. 

[Karhedron]

Van Vets with Lightning Claws are actually probably the most cost-efficient chaff clearer. All the advantages of Chainswords but with rerolls to wound, this is going to be important with T5 Orks now part of the meta I think.

 

Lightning claws are also better against more armoured opponents too.

[Djangomatic82]

 

 

Looking at his list, he has 3 blocks of SG, all over 198points, as well as a unit of TH/SS VV's.  Dropping one unit of SG would open up points for 2 units of ASM w.JP. Yes, ASM are individually worse than SG, but, more bodies, point for point, might be a good thing overall. More bodies to screen. More units to grab or contest objectives. Cheaper units to send out to trade with chaff and such.

 

Rather than ASM, I'd add in 5x vanvets with 2x chainswords. 110 vs 85, but you get 21 base attacks vs 11 for 25pts more. 

 

Otherwise if you're chaff clearing, 5x ASM, 2x flamer, hand flamer for 100pts can work. 

 

I don't disagree with any of those suggestions, ASM with upgrades are better than bare ASM. VanVets are the most efficient chaff killers. The issue I think is all those miss the point of the initial question. In Jack Harpsters list and strategy, he already maxed out the Elite slot. There is the option to consolidate all 20 SG into two 10 man units, freeing up 1 slot, but i think that is less efficient than having 3 discreet squads to play around with, as well as having issues with blast, placement, hiding out of LoS, etc...

My observation from the GT final was that his list simply didnt have enough bodies in play to deal with the castle up and whittle down attrition gameplay it lost to.

That weakness of having to waste high quality SG/VV/DC on cheap skitarri MSU's because he simply didnt have anything else, was what brought ASM w.JP's to mind as our cheapest answer to that issue that still plays to the overall strategy and benefits from most of the same tactics as the better SG/VV's and DC.

[Jolemai]

Tomorrow I wake up within an hour of Warhammer World, so it would be really rude not to stop by. The question is, what do I buy from FW with the £120 I've got to spend there?

[Leonaides]

Contemptor incandaeus (jump pack dreadnought ftw!) and a squad of crimson paladins?

[Xenith]

Tomorrow I wake up within an hour of Warhammer World, so it would be really rude not to stop by. The question is, what do I buy from FW with the £120 I've got to spend there?

 

Leviathan? Or BA contemptor with volkites. Or volk/fist. 

[Majkhel]

Aaaaah, so many things to choose from! :D
I would personally go for either some dreads or tanks: Deimos (something), Sicaran (something) or Arquitor (something)
 

[keeblerartillery]

First episode of angels of death is great for anyone wondering!

[Leonaides]

Well, you're a day ahead of me. Got painting night tonight so I'll sort out signing up tomorrow.

[Charlo]

Tomorrow I wake up within an hour of Warhammer World, so it would be really rude not to stop by. The question is, what do I buy from FW with the £120 I've got to spend there?

[Majkhel]

Another friendly win for BAs Today against my Crimson Fists buddy. This time almost tabled my opponent plus had a solid lead in points (~70:50), so I feel kinda bad.
Whirlwind of Rage + Tactical Withdrawal were great so I'm considering toning it down a bit next time and return to classic BA traits plus maybe some special characters
Took the Storm Speeder Hammerstrike for a ride and freshly-painted-model syndrome got it's due - the thing did maybe 2D with all it's shooting against a dreadnought and then died. On the other hand my opponent's Thunderstrike did reasonably well thanks to it's native BS 2+ (which I didn't knew it had) and the fact that it was still only primed :P
I think Hammerstrike can still perform if I mange to "Awaken" it with a Techmarine before I send it off for a suicide mission.

I'm glad I did some nice movement and positioning manoeuvres. Also second game in a row I find that Phobos pre-game repositioning with Lord of Deceit can really mess with opponents deployment. Especially when you go first. I need to try how does it look like when I go second. However I would expect a more experienced player to be less susceptible to those tricks. After all 2 units of Incursors and a character can only do so much damage.
Also this time DC whiffed 90% of their attacks.

[Spyros]

I 'm thinking of using plasma Inceptors in my list, do they actually cost 60 points each now?

[Karhedron]

I 'm thinking of using plasma Inceptors in my list, do they actually cost 60 points each now?

Afraid so. Still, having used them, they really do dish out the hurt and are worth the points.

 

You pretty much need a Captain with Bike or Jump Pack (preferably the latter) to accompany them. Without you will kill half the squad the first time you overcharge them. But a squad of 5 dropping in with a Captain and using "Descent of Angels" can put out a terrifying amount of damage. Anything without an invulnerable save will be toast. Their only weakness are units that have rules like Duty Eternal to reduce incoming damage.