casb1965 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Love that colour scheme, probably because it's so close to Inquisitional Stormtrooper colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Nice colours, I hope to see some models in the scheme soon :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Gordnikson Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Awesome, glad you guys like it, I'll start a thread when I get my first pack of Cadians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I'm prob a bit late to the party but I will weigh in anyway in case it helps at all. My metal cadians are often the line in the sand that my blood angels drop pod in to save so I have a similar idea of combat power armour and guard line holders. My guard side (in a 2500 point limit) would be: tank commander (maybe pask) vanq with excutioner friend command squad with vox, chrimera and autocannon (you'll see a lot of these) psc with vox, heavy bolter 3 inf squads with plasma guns and heavy bolters 2 heavy wep squads with autocannons (2nd one might have mortar or las depending on what anti armour marines are bringing and points I have) 1 vet squad with 3 melta in chrimera to run interference hellhound 3 scout sents (cheap as chips and lots of high(ish) str shots down range) 1 bassie 1 basic russ. This is very roughly half (or jsut over) the points, and gives you a great battle line with multiple tanks to put fire down range. The vets and hell hound can advance or head anything too scary off before it gets to squishy guard thats sitting back hold objectives and firing down range. Sents are more of a playing with points thing, can be dropped easily but otherwise contribute as mobile light weapon platforms that can be sacrificed if needed. With 3 battle tanks and 4 chrimera chassies you have enough armour to buy time for the pods (wolves in your case) to do their job. Heavy weapons wise always go with autocannons or heavy bolters as general rule as you need lots of shots in order to hit anything with guardsmen bs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Gordnikson Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 Awesome man, you're not late at all, I'm still deciding on everything Because the majority of my SW section of this army will be BC and TWC and maybe a dreadnaught, I'll need to rely on the guard for anti armour. What if instead of the vet squad I bring a third HWS, and allocating them certain anti armour weapons, because I'll need some 'gun ling firepower' so to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 A HWS will provide the long range you need, but you'll need to keep them in cover to increase their survival odds. Orders to increase their effectiveness is also a good idea, what sort of weapon are you thinking of arming them with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Gordnikson Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 Mostly lascannons and mortors, and the occasional autocannon for anti infantry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Okay, I'm not totally up to date with my wolf lingo, but blood claws (BC?) are combat nuts with poor bs but lots of attacks right? Thunderwolves (TWC?) can handle trucks in combat? or what do they fight? and dreds are dreds are dreds... not much to say What boss you taking for them? That to me sounds like a lot more points in the guard side than I run (2 tac squads, assult squad, death company and baubles is the power armoured side for me) so you'll need them to do more but have greater investment, so you should be able to get extra hws and another vets (ideal). This will give you more ranged anti tank, and a second vet melta squad to charge down scary tanks (which you will need given you lack of marine anti tank). I would shy away from mortars if I'm honest, for such a small increase you can get mighty auto cannons or heavy bolters, they are a lot more reliable, and will never friendly fire with bad scatter. I use them myself if I run pure guard (3 squads of mortars), but I am happy to shell my own men, which your not going to have the luxury of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Lascannons are expensive but good as you'd expect, you should definitely consider something to help their effectiveness. Mortars are sadly outshone by Wyverns mostly, but they're good cheap objective holders that are effective against infantry - so no good if you're looking at replacing some AT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Gordnikson Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 I'll look into lascannons, autocannons and heavy bolters then, thanks What I want to do is gather a good CQB core with my BC and TWC (you're correct on the lingo, nice one! ) TWC have 5 attacks on charge... FIVE it's pretty good and they've been tested in combat but all I need are the IG to give them support so that they don't get ripped to doggy shreds on their way over. My BC get +1 strength on the charge (due to rage) and my boss at the moment is Krom Dragongaze, but I'm considering changing to Ragnar Blackmane in the future. What I have atm for my SW is: 1x pack BC (9) w/ plasma pistol and powerfist (surprisingly effective) and one wolf guard leader w/ thunder hammer and storm shield 1x pack BC (8) w/ plasma pistol and powerfist and one wolf guard leader w/ thunder hammer and boltgun. Krom Dragongave will be in this pack as well 1x pack TWC (3) w/ 3x stormshield, 1x chainsword, 1x powerfist, 1x thunder hammer (these guys can take out a rhino in one fight sub-phase) 5x WGT (5) w/ heavy flamer, assault cannon, 2x chainfist, 1x wolf claw, 1x frost sword, 1x powerfist, 3x storm bolters (I'm most likely going to change the melee lodaout) Njal Stormcaller (psyker lvl3) I'm most likely going to get another BC pack and a drop pod or a dedicated transport for one pack of my BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Gordnikson Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 cancel that, I'm not going to put a heavy flamer on my WGT, it's not allowed EDIT: It's going to be a thunder hammer instead EDIT: WAAGH! After looking through my box of spare parts, there are no suitable WGT thunder hammer parts, oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Wow, okay, so they can really bring the pain in cc. With the termies and the twc I think you are good for close range anti tank... so I can see the dropping of vets in chrimeras. I would still leave one if you can as they are great for plugging holes. Could switch them to 3 plasma though fand use them as scary anti inf removal men. Otherwise I think more platoons/men will give you a solids scary gun line that can handle most stuff with volume of fire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Allow me to hijack this thread and make a more specific inquiry: is there anything the guard can bring to support a melee advance? I have become notorious for aggressive melee builds in my community and my love for TWC is pretty well known in the SW section. Right now the SW core consist of, well, TWC. Harald, 3 Iron Priests, 2 TWC units, 12 Cyber Wolves and 12 Fenrisian Wolves. The IG element does not have to be aggressive in the least. This isn't something IG does all that well. My question is whether IG have something that 1) could help the TWC reach melee 2) support their advance 3) deal with tarpits Those are the three points of interest that I need from an allied detachment. I am not interested in backfield scoring units or passive things like that. I have looked through the codex a few times, but it's been a while since I actually played IG and I am sure I overlooked some intricacies. If there is nothing that IG can do, do not be afraid to tell me. Cheers in advance ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Depends on what you mean by 'help you get there'. And what sort of tarpits cause problems... a vert squad with 3 melta/plasma in a chrimera, with 2 hellhounds could easily burn your enemy hordes down to size easily enough, while providing 3 chrimera chasis to hide behind for a turn before you jump the enemy lines... Equally a thematic choice could be bullgryns with shields to provide cover. In terms of cover your advance, if you mean kill stuff, tanks tend to do well that that quite quickly... a tank command russ and second russ with him could give you some armoured killing power... but scatter could prove a problem once your thc closes in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Hm, let me go into more detail then. 50 fearless conscripts that reroll their save are a pain to deal with, even for TWC. They need to engage the more important models on the table. Usually this leaves Fenrisian Wolves with the breaking of tarpits. They usually die in defense of the TWC however. Then there are MSU units like Eldar Jetbiker or 5 Deathmarks + Cryptec. Small units that are not worth the attention of a TWC unit or an Iron Priest, but a threatening enough to not be ignored. So I was looking into alternatives to mop up weaker infantry that I do not want to waste TWC on. Let me give you an example of an unsupported advance: all the TWC rush forward, are too far away (or too risky) for a first turn charge and are stuck in the middle of the table. The opponent unloads his entire firepower on them and decimates an entire unit before I get to chop 'em, basically putting me one turn behind. A supported advance would for example be some first turn pressure (do not confuse it with alpha strike though), that forces tanks to jink, thins out infantry, possibly pins them. Blows up one or the other tank. Something that may force the opponent to split fire, play defensively, not risk an advance in fear of being overwhelmed. That sort of thing. If we were to look at a real world scenario it would be a machine gunner on full auto forcing the enemy trench to keep their heads down while his own soldiers advance to take said trench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Okay, then I would restate the duo of hellhounds, they will scrap those consripts quickly and provide some repite for the twc. Command wise, pask and excutioner (bit more pricey, but gets job done) will force damage/cover in the enemy. Lastly I would go with either minimum platoon with autocannons for some ranged contribution, or a vet squad with tri plasma in chrimera (very similar to intial suggestion), as it increaes your threat at range, while giving you more metal boxes to scare the other guy a bit. Logic here is your big tanks provide some shooty death on the bigger pieces facing you, the hellhounds provide cover and thin ranks of masses, and the vets give you troops who score (I know you said not big concern but always nice) and a counter threat for if he advances willynilly, you can threaten a squad with rapid fire plasma. This is also then hq, troop and fast attack option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I am intrigued by the Hellhound suggestion. While I ignored them when I used to play pure IG, they do make sense here. They are fast and can respond in a timely manner and keep up with the TWC, which is very handly and important since it causes threat-overload. And as opposed to Wyvern and Eradicator, I do not need to worry about scattering on my troops. Would I run a solo-hound or a 2-tank squadron? HQ Tank makes the most sense since the infantry HQs are all for buffing IG infantry. They are darn costly though, effective mind you, but costly. I might stick with the close ranged thematic and get Pask to his Punisher, but that would surely crash the bank given that his unit will cost 300+. Gotta thing what other tanks might help. I am tempted to consider the Demolisher, but the scatter... Veterans seem to be the go-to troops here I suppose, no arguments there. But I am not sure which weapons. Meltas do not make sense because 5 S10 AP1 attacks in melee beat any melta any day of the week. Plasma might also be redundant because TWC are more than adequately equipped to deal with elite infantry. Flamers would be a waste of BS4. They sort of feel like out of place in the list. A last problem would be that I have no idea how to fit in the fluff as of yet. My thematic for the army is the Wild Hunt (go Wikipedia it, it's quite interesting), hence why all of them ride horses. Some metal boxes sort of seem out of place there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Gordnikson Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Ok so lets break down what parts of my army will do one by one and see what the IG can contribute to it: So my TWC (and perhaps some FW later on) will be the fast striking, infantry and armour killing part of my force, but they're going t be vulnerable to hordes of fire and heavy weapons so I will need some armour and maybe some troops to cover their advance. So what would be more beneficial to my fast-attack section? Hellhounds, Lemun Russ' or perhaps a chimera to have a double whammy of troop support and some armour support. Troop-wise for the fast attack I'm thinking either two squads of vets or standard guardsmen (I'm going more towards the standard guardsmen). All but one squad will be in chimera's as the sturdy gun line for the BC. The other chimera will house my command squad in it. As for my two packs of BC, there will be one squad accompanying them as a gun line and they will most likely be followed by a Lemun Russ, they'll need the heavy armour support greatly. My terminators will probably be going with them as well. Heavy weapon squads will be strategically behind each section, so that they can provide some decent covering fire. I'm still going over the load outs for my Lemun Russ', any suggestions? My wyverns will be providing artillery barrages until my sections get to their targets These forums are awesome! I appreciate the help you guys have been giving me, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I would take grey hunters to accompany your gunline instead of bloodclaws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Hmm, okay, this is swiftly becoming two topics (or rather advice for 2 people). Can a mod split it into seperate threads? Immersturm: The whole premise of this will be dependant on how many points you can throw at it. If hq tanks are too much then a single demolisher in heavy slot could be more affordable... but thats for you to work out based on how big your IG investment will be. Regarding the Hellhounds, I would go with a pair as they arnt overly expensive and give more redundency. Also will be easier to hide twc behind a pair of boxes. Vets wise, I would go with them in chrimera to keep up the aggression. Giving them plasma means that if your thc charge and butcher those zerkers etc, then the vets can cover them and make sure the khorne termies don't jump you before your ready (etc etc). It would also mean you dont need your twc to be everywhere at once, as other parts of the army can dish out hurt too. I would also give the vets chrimera duel heavy flamers to turn it into a mini hell hound. Fluff wise I will indeed read up on it and throw you some ideas if anything springs to mind... Bjorn Gordnikson: I would stick with reg guardsmen in a largish platoon, your aim is a gunline from them (reckon 3 squads), and the command squad to give orders. ccs will then also buff these guys with more orders (I know warriorfish likes banners and medics, I prefer go cheap with a vox and an autocannon, each to their own). These guys will sit back with the ehavy wep squads and give crippling firepower. Arty sits here too, thats wyrvns and a russ (I would go standard, for just general explosion goodness). Your mid table will consist of (IMO) a hellhound and/or sentinels, and a unit of vets with plasma for firesupport. If you want to keep a unit of power armour bodies in support I would do as hendrik says and switch them to grey hunters. These guys would advance to mid field providing close range fire support for your attack elements (and physical cover if needed using the vets chrimera and the hellhound). Your attack force would be the wolves doing what wolves do best, twc and bc's will happily cover this aspect and guard cannot really add much here if I'm honest. FW? what forgeworld stuff are you meaning? Hope that helps you both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Immer, I have split your list into a new topic. Can everyone please take their discussion of it there, thanks. Bjorn, you should decide on how you want your Guard to work. Just supporting from range or also from close range? You'll only have so many points to spend so you might not be able to do both effectively. For supporting your Wolves as they're going to be hunting infantry for you, what about a Devil Dog for slagging armour and heavy infantry? Russes are perhaps not the best choice for close support. Demolishers are great for this, but with S10 AP2 you won't want that near your TWC! I like Fast Attack units like Hellhounds and Sentinels for this role as they are fast enough to keep up while maintaining effectiveness. If you want a Russ rolling up behind your advance, then something like an Exterminator might be an idea, it won't hit friendlies and can open up transports for your Wolves. spafe, medics are nice for a bit of extra survivability on CCS if you have the points but I take banners because they look cool and bring me luck, not because they're great upgrades :P In this context I think you'll find FW means Fenrisian Wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I thought something was Fishy here (pun very much intended) :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Ah thanks Warriorfish! I completly misunderstood FW! In which case keeping a powerarmoured unit mid table (grey hunters) is fine as the fenrision wolves can keep blood claws and twc company. The exterminator may well give you some nice firepower, and is a safe shot. Equally if you are getting lots of heavys in your gunline, and you have some wryvns then you may not even need a russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Everything is Fishy; remember the commissariat is never far away and is ever watchful ;) Punisher might also be an option, though would need Pask to make it more effective at non-infantry targets. I'd look at Fast Attack first though, as mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Gordnikson Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Alright, so this is the list so far, whats the though on it? HQ Krom Dragongaze (135pts) Command Squad (60pts) Psyker: Njal Stormcaller lvl 3 (180pts) Infantry (SW) 1x Pack BC (9,) w/ plasma pistol and powerfist and one wolf guard leader w/ thunder hammer and storm shield: 203pts 1x Pack BC (8) w/ plasma pistol and powerfist and one wolf guard leader w/ thunder hammer and boltgun: 191pts 1x Pack GH (10) w/ 2x flamers and 8 boltguns: 214pts 5x WGT w/ 2x chainfist, powerfst, wolf claw, frost sword, assault cannon and 4x storm bolters: 250pts Infantry (IG) Platoon Command Squad (115) Platoon Commander (Standard layout) Guardsman: Heavy Flamer, medikit Guardsman: Vox Caster, lasgun Heavy weapons team w/ autocannon (55pts) (VET)Infantry Squad 1 (10 man) Vox caster: 65pts (VET)Infantry Squad 2 (10 man) Vox caster: 65pts (VET)Infantry Squad 3 (10 man) Vox caster: 65pts 3x Heavy Weapons Squad: 1x Autocannon, 2x lascannon: 95pts Fast Attack (SW) 2 pack of 3 TWC 1st Pack: 3x storm shields, thunder hammer, 2x chain sword: 195pts 2nd Pack: 3x Storm shields, power fist, 2x chain sword: 185pts 1 Pack FW: 10x FW: 80pts 2x Hellhounds 250pts 3x Chimeras 195pts 2x Wyverns 130pts 2x Lemun Russ' 360pts 1x Lemun Russ battle tank, Knight commander Pask: 150pts + 30pts 1x Lemun Russ Demolisher: 170pts 3033pts Ok so maybe not 2500 pts, but I will go for this over the next while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.