Battlereport: GK/SM vs DA – 1750 points

[Eisenhardt]

Hey all,

 

My last game was the opposite experience of the hard times versus Eldar. As the Eldar player of our group was not available, I played against Dark Angels Death Wing. It was going to be a massacre…

 

We decided to go for 1750 points, so let´s have a look to the army list:

 

Grey Knights + Space Marines

As we all know, solo GK do not seem to be competitive, so I wanted to field my new Centurions. As I am already aware of my bad luck with the dices, I took all 6. Everything which they shoot at, should be dead….even with my luck!

 

Grey Knights:

 

HQ: Librarian with Combi-Plasma Gun, ML 3

Standard: 10 Terminators, 2 PSI Cannons, Justicar with Hammer

Support: NDK with Sword, Flamer and Heavy PSI Cannon, Teleporter

LoW: Kaldor Draigo

 

Space Marines:

 

HQ: Chaplain in Terminator Armour

Standard: 5 Scouts with Sniper Rifles and Roket Launcher

Support: 6 Centurions with Grav Cannons and Roket Launchers + Omniscop

 

Total: 1759 points

 

Tactics: Seem to be very clear: Scouts holding mission goal in my deployment zone, Chaplain, Librarian and Terminators arrive via deep strike in turn 1 (here is a rules question: is it allowed to attach the Chaplain and use the NSF rules?). NDK should jump around and kill, kill, kill…same as the Cent Star, which should jump around with Gate of Infinity and blow everything to pieces.

 

Dark Angels

I do not have the exact list with each weapon details, but here is what I can remember:

 

HQ: Belial

HQ: Librarian ML 2

Standard: 6 Terminators, mixed LC and TH/SS, Rocket Launcher, with LRC (Belial and Librarian were attached to this unit)

Standard: 5 Terminators, mixed LC and TH/SS, Rocket Launcher with LR

Standard: 6 Terminators, mixed LC and TH/SS, Rocket Launcher

Total: 1758 points

 

GAME PREPARATION

We played the 5^th of the new missions, so we had 3 Mission Goal Cards every turn. We decided to give this a new chance and not to modify it with any house rules.

As Warlord Trait I had number 6 on the “leader table” in RB. Thus the War Lord and any model within 12” could re-roll any “1” in CC. Nice, but I forgot it during the game :D

PSI Powers: I decided to roll an Telepathy, because I wanted to have “Invisibility”…and luckly, I got it! Furthermore I got “Horror” and “Hallucination”.

We used the long table sides as deployment zones and DA placed first. It was very quick, the LR were as close to the 12” limit as possible, the remaining unit was hiding at a mission objective. In general, both of us had 2 mission objectives and the 2 others were placed in the middle of the table.

I placed the 5 Sniper scouts on top of the large ruin and hided the NDK and the Cent Star behind it. The Terminators with Librarian/Chaplain was in Reserve. I could not seize the initiative, so DA began the game.

 

TURN 1:

Dark Angels:

 

Movement:

The 2 LR were moving up to 12” towards the mid of the table.

 

PSI:

nothing

 

Shooting:

The Rocket Launcher from the hiding Terminator unit did not manage to hit the Scouts with the small template. The LRC could see 1 Centurion through the door in the middle of the ruin. But it could only take away one hitpoint with the Multi-Melter and the Assault Cannon. The other LR could wound the NDK with his laser cannon and he also lost one hitpoint…I was not so happy already losing 2 hit points, but this was the best shooting phase for the DA of the complete game!

 

Victory Points:

None

 

GK/SM:

Movement:

The Terminator unit is entering the game via deep strike behind the two LR. The NDK is jumping 12” in front of the ruin (woohooo…this time I did not forget that MC does not need to pass the dangerous terrain test!).

PSI: Of course I tried “Invisibility” for the Terminator unit and decided to use 5 dices to achieve the required 2 WC…but I got 3 time “1” and also “2” and “3”! I “love” the new PSI phase…but more important was the GoI from Draigo. So I took the remaining 4 dices and passed the test. The DA could not bann it. The Cent-Star teleported in front of the LR….muahahahaha!

 

Shooting:

The NDK and the Snipers (like everytime…did somebody of you ever kill something with the snipers in the 7^th edition?) could not wound anything. The Terminators killed 2 DA Termis with 24 Storm Bolter Shots! So the first time came I used the Cents. I was very excited, of course….so I took the 30 dices and achieved 18 hits. Not too bad. Then I took 10 of the hits, were throwing them and…no 6! Ooompf…ok, I threw all of them again….and no 6!!! Ahhhhhh…impossible! So I took the remaining 8 hits, threw them….an no 6!!! I was close to heart attack…so again, re-roll the 8 dices…and achieved 4 “6”! LR was wrecked! This was close and know I knew that it was a good idea to take all 6 Cents!

 

Close Combat:

The NDK attacked the LRC and achieve 1 glancing hit and 1 penetrating hit, which led to a not moveable LRC for the next turn.

 

Victory Points:

First blood for the Cents!

 

TURN 2:

VP: GK/SM 1 – 0 Dark Angels

Dark Angels:

Movement:

The Terminators from the wrecked LR were moving towards my Terminators. As the LRC was also not able to move, the DA also disembarked and moved towards my Terminators.

 

PSI:

The DA Librarian casted the power for re-rolling to hit and the Terminators from the LR (because they were the only unit which could attack my Terminators in this round). And I was not able to bann this power with 8 dices! (DA achieved three 4 and higher values with four dices!)

 

Shooting:

The DA could kill only 2 GK from shooting with their Terminators.

 

Close Combat:

The overwatch did not kill anything, so the 5 DA Terminators attacked my remaining 8 GK with Librarian and Chaplain. The Libr/Chap could kill 2 DAT, but the GKT were too stupid…in return the DAT killed 4 GKT. Luckily I passed the morale check.

 

Victory Points:

1 for holding a mission objective

 

GK/SM:

Movement:

As the LRC does not seem to be a thread, the NDK jumped towards the unit the Belial.

 

PSI:

Successfully “Invisibility” – (here is the question, if I was allowed to cast it, although I was in CC. According to the RB, I did not find anything against it) – furthermore I passed the test for “danger from the warp”. Also the GoI was successful and the Cent Start teleported besides the CC and in range to the Belial unit.

 

Shooting:

Again, Scouts and NDK did not wound anything. But the Cent-Star performed well. Again 18 wounds which lead to 4 dead DAT and a dead Belial!

 

Close Combat:

The NDK charges the remaining 2 DAT and Librarian…and kills all 3! In the other CC the Librarian/Chaplain kill 1 DAT and receives no wounds due to invisibility.

 

Victory Points:

1 for killing the Warlord!

 

TURN 3:

VP: GK/SM 2 – 1 Dark Angels

Dark Angels:

Movement:

The LRC moves in my deployment zone to grap a mission goal. The remaining DAT unit moves towards the Cent Star.

 

Shooting:

Nothing happened.

 

Close Combat:

Librarian/Chaplain kill 1 DAT and receives no wounds due to invisibility.

 

Victory Points:

2 for DA due to holding two mission goals.

 

GK/SM:

Movement:

The NDK follows the LRC into my deployment zone. The Cents are moving towards the remaining DAT.

 

PSI:

I just wanted to try the combination of “Horror” and “Psychic shriek” on the 1 remaining DAT in CC. I successfully performed both, but for the shriek I only got a 6 in total, so no wounds achieved.

 

Shooting:

The Cents again achieved 18 wounds and killed the remaining DAT. Scouts again did nothing! The NDK performed a glancing hit on the LRC.

 

Close Combat:

The last DAT killed 1 GKT. The NDK was not able to go the 7” attack distance (towards the LRC), even with re-roll…

 

Victory Points:

none

 

 TURN 4:

VP: GK/SM 2 – 3 Dark Angels

We can make it short from this point:

The LRC removes 1 HP from the NDK, but gets wrecked from the Cents. In CC finally the last DAT was killed by the Librarian…Victory for GK/SM during round 4 due to wipe out of DA!!!

 

Coming to the summary of the game:

1. Ok, this was an overwhelming victory, but a Terminator based army with LR is the perfect match for the Cent-Star…nothing can stand it. I think there was no real chance for the DA, only if the Cents were killed during teleport.
2. I was discussing with my opponent if the DAT are worth it. 44 Points base price seems to be too much, for what you get. In the current AP2 heavy fire meta they seem to be far overpriced.
3. Did anybody really kill something with the Sniper Scouts in 7^th edition? With BS3 and not Rending anymore, they seem to be useless?! What is your experience? Why did they remove rending from them?
4. GKT with Nemesis Swords do nothing against other Terminators. This unit was locked in CC nearly the complete game and only the Librarian and Chaplain Combo was able to kill some DAT. May be it would have been a better idea to take one GKT less and therefore give them Halberds.
5. Following rules need to be clarified:
   1. Is it allowed to attach any Character from an allied force to a Grey Knight unit and to use the NSF rules?
   2. Can I cast “Blessings” if the Librarian is locked in CC?

Thank you for reading so far!

-- Pictures will follow later!

[Quozzo]

I think the fault lies with the DA player. DAT can deepstrike turn 1, no rolling for reserves or anything like that, which is far superior than the NSFD. Then when they arrive they all have twin linked weapons for the turn. If they used that method instead of riding up in a bullet magnet they might have been able to destroy your units on the table turn 1, or crippled you to the point of no return.

 

The cents grav guns should not be used on the land raider, they are almost useless when needing a 6 to glance, they are great at obliterating termimators though (as you found out) as their own 2+ save works against them and they can only save on 5+. So pop open the LR with psycannons/heavy psycannons and then blast the insides with the grav weapons. Why did he use a LRC anyway, thats the one with heavy bolters right?

 

As for your questions,

#1 Yes, any IC is attached the GK unit so they can DS turn 1.

#2 Yes, did you know that GoI is a blessing ;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I read the title and predicted the outcome. That should speak volumes dude. DA are...not in a happy place right now. 

 

Deathwing have some cool tricks and are the original 'all TDA all day' army. The comparison is really bad nowdays though. Deathwing's only good point is they can take storm shield+thunderhammer, along with the squad plasma cannon, CML or assault cannon. They're still very expensive though. 

 

Deathwing Assault is pretty good, although our Nemesis Strikeforce does the exact same thing better...

 

He really should've had some Ravenwing. They give them teleport homers to land off, plasma/melta to deal with things Terminators don't kill at range, plus some fast durable units to take objectives. 

 

I don't know what the DA players was thinking taking LR's. You have DEATHWING ASSAULT TURN 1...I mean we're in 7th edition, LR's stopped mattering in 5th. 

[Eisenhardt]

At first some pictures from the battle...or massacre

[Eisenhardt]

Why did he use a LRC anyway, thats the one with heavy bolters right?

As for your questions,

#1 Yes, any IC is attached the GK unit so they can DS turn 1.

#2 Yes, did you know that GoI is a blessing

He had to use the LRC because of transport capacity. Otherwise the 6 DTA plus Liby and Belial would not have fit into the LR.

Thank you for the clarifications. And yes....GoI is a blessing, so teleporting out of CC is nice!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Thank you for the clarifications. And yes....GoI is a blessing, so teleporting out of CC is nice!

 

 

It's pretty disgusting actually. 'Hit and Run' and stuff like that is usually on weak assault units that need to exit drawn-out engagements to avoid getting ground down to paste. Putting it on Terminators/Centurions/whoever else you run Draigo with is pretty mean. Combine it with teleport homers or locator beacons (or servo-skulls) and you can pull some serious shenanigans. 

[raverrn]

[quotterminator

clusiarch Darius" post=3859283" timestamp="1415704719]

Deathwing have some cool tricks and are the original 'all TDA all day' army. The comparison is really bad nowdays.

 

Grey Knights are the OG all terminator 'army'.

 

Dark Angels only have like a hundred suits!

[Gentlemanloser]

We were never originally all TDA. Wards reinvention in the 5th Ed codex brought that. (And the reduction from Thousands in number to a 'normal' Chapter size...)

Our original Slaves to Darkness list was PA dudes.

[jeffersonian000]

I hate saying it, but when you posted that it was a bat rep at 1750pts, and then present lists at 1758 and 1759 points, it just grinds my gears. I know people aren't as finicky about exact points as I am, but it's such a huge distraction for me that I just can't take the bag rep seriously.

 

Sorry.

 

SJ

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Grey Knights are the OG all terminator 'army'.

 

Dark Angels only have like a hundred suits! 

 

Well before we became a real army in our 5th edition incarnation (swiftly reduced to Ally status in 7th, to shut up all the whining morons), DA were the original all-TDA list in the meta game. You couldn't make an army of GKT's even with our 3rd edition 'Ordo Malleus' book, nor would you want to. Deathwing used to be pretty scary, nowadays they're just hit too hard by meta-game changes and their absurd point costs. I mean, I dislike a lot about our new 7th edition book, but one thing it did get right was pricing our Terminators. 33pts is exactly the right number for us, as it includes our amazing melee abilities (S6/10 and Force) whilst understanding that a Terminator is really only worth 2 Marines, not nearly 3. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Shame it throws the balance off with strikes though.

 

You could have kept Terminators at 40 points, if you had increased thier durability somehow.

[Eisenhardt]

I hate saying it, but when you posted that it was a bat rep at 1750pts, and then present lists at 1758 and 1759 points, it just grinds my gears. I know people aren't as finicky about exact points as I am, but it's such a huge distraction for me that I just can't take the bag rep seriously.

 

Sorry.

 

SJ

 

I understand that you have a different thinking. Usually we play that max. 10 Points above limit is allowed as we are playing fun games, not for tournament training. If we would "train" for tournaments, then of course the exact limit should be kept.

[Quozzo]

 

 

I hate saying it, but when you posted that it was a bat rep at 1750pts, and then present lists at 1758 and 1759 points, it just grinds my gears. I know people aren't as finicky about exact points as I am, but it's such a huge distraction for me that I just can't take the bag rep seriously.

 

Sorry.

 

SJ

I understand that you have a different thinking. Usually we play that max. 10 Points above limit is allowed as we are playing fun games, not for tournament training. If we would "train" for tournaments, then of course the exact limit should be kept.

So you're really playing 1760 points, can you go over that limit by 10 points... and that limit... and that limit...

 

Where do you draw the line.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I must say the Land Raiders are not dead for Deathwing but you need a PFG and 2 "Venerable" land Raiders to make them work. No PFG and no DW vehicle can make them less difficult to take out. Now taht they are super scoring if taken as dedicated transport and with only "dying on a 7" makes them a better propostion than in 6th edition.

Also having LC's does not favour DW as they need the storm bolters and some TH/SS around.

Also the usual )and most sucessfull) tactics with think of list revolve around moving 18" with the raiders, holding for a turn )that why PFG and DWV is so crucial)  and on turn 2 belial's beacon brings in the termie squads through DS to get that twinlinked going. That would give you a hands full if played right. But Kudos to you for handling the situation.

[jeffersonian000]

Doesn't Belial cause his Deep Striking units to arrive turn 1? Been using him and a Troop choice of DA Termies as stand-in Mordrak and his Ghostly Bodyguards due to their DS on T1 ability.

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

Deathwing Assault can choose to come in either turn 1 or turn 2.

[shortysl]

Belial just allows his unit to arrive without scattering.