Slips Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Some formations do require Specific Units; Such as the ones from Storm Claw and Deathstorm. Generally, detachments do not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I want to say 5 sherman tanks each time i look at your avatar. Here it is: Baal Strike Force Detachment: • Mandatory 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops • Optional: as usual, but 3 additional Elite slots (Total 4) • Special Rule: +1 Initiative when charging, all the army, any turn. Huh..so no specifically required units, like Dante or Mephiston? Does that list mean it cannot take Heavy Support? And it can or cannot be the primary detachment? Yes. The main difference between a Formation and a Detachment is that Detachments are just categories, while Formations require specific units with specific gear and have either highly limited or zero room for customization. "Primary Detachment" isn't a thing. You pick one character and he's your Warlord. He can be from any Detachment in your army, unless it's an Allied Detachment. It doesn't matter which Detachment he's in, and that Detachment gains no particular benefit (unless your Warlord has a Warlord Trait or other Detachment-only power). Troops in this detachment are not Objective Secured, personally i don't think this a big deal. Edit: i need to recheck that, but pretty sure it's only CAD and allies that get obsec troops. Yes, that's true. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabgoi Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I am personally very excited, but then again I still run my BA VERY similar to how I did in third edition, with less Devastators now (Mort will understand the looks you got in third edition putting a squad of devs down as BA). I tabled a chaos player and a grey knights player last Sunday running a vanilla libby, two vindis, two tac squads and two assault squads, and two SPs. Most I lost was 17 Assault Marines in one fight. I still play very similar to codex, but with a bit of BA flair. So to me, the biggest loss was the fast vindis. I still remember my first match bring those out. Guy was all happy about being able to set up outside of vindi range and how he did not need to waste his limited cover, until he realized I had six more inchs of range and he probably should have listen to my advice and hid the terminator squads better. But BA change dramatically every edition and every edition we adapt and overcome and bring the smite on to the heretics who would oppose us. I cannot wait to see how this one comes out and how we will change. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 "Primary Detachment" isn't a thing. THE PRIMARY DETACHMENT Every army has a Primary Detachment. If you organise your army using the Battle-forged method, whichever Detachment contains your Warlord is your Primary Detachment. If you used the Unbound method, then once you choose your Warlord, every model in your army that has the same Faction as your Warlord is considered to be part of the Primary Detachment for all rules purposes. Of course, in an Unbound army, these models are not bound by any Detachment restrictions and do not receive Command Benefits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 This +1 Initiative everyone keeps talking about, is that something related specifically to the Detachment, or something else? I don't know how Detachments work, so....yeah..... Yes. +1 I on the charge is a benefit of the new Detachment. Detachments are optional FOCs that you can apply to your army. The "classic" FOC has its new incarnation as the Combined Arms Detachment. Another kind of Detachment is the Allied Detachment. So far, 'Nids and Dark Eldar have proprietary Detachments. In a sense, a Formation is a mini-Detachment. Your army can consist of any number of Detachments that you can afford, each with its own benefit, as well as any number of Formations. The only thing you can't do is add random units - if anything on the table is not part of a Detachment or a Formation, your list is now Unbound. Ok, so if I'm reading this and Valerian's link right, then the new detachment is a Faction Specific Detachment, added on to the usual FOC of days gone by, which itself is now called a Combined Arms Detachment. I guess that's simple enough...after reading it 7 or 8 times. But again, are the rules for this detachment available in C:BA, or are the rules only in the Deathstorm box set? Fellas, hopefully y'all have already read through the thread at the link I provided earlier. Now to expand on this, here is what y'all can expect to have as various "menu options" for assembling your Battleforged Blood Angels armies; please note that I don't have access to the Blood Angels Codex yet, so I don't know the actual names of your Faction-specific Detachments or Formation. Within the Blood Angels Codex, you will have one Detachment, the Baal Strike Force Detachment (BSFD) and one Formation (probably a full Blood Angels Battle Company (BABC)). The BSFD provides a modified Force Organization Chart to the 'standard' Combined Arms Detachment (CAD) of Warhammer 40k, and also provides different Command Benefits to the ones from a CAD. As stated in The Rules, and mentioned above, the BABC Formation is just another type of Detachment, but is one that is quite specific about what you must take; it also provides additional Special Rules to encourage its use. If you get a follow-on Supplement to the Blood Angels Codex you will have a new Detachment to choose from (I'm going to call it the Cool Flesh-Tearers Detachment (CFTD) for now). This Detachment will provide a modified Force Organization Chart to the 'standard' Combined Arms Detachment (CAD) of Warhammer 40k, and also provides different Command Benefits to the ones from a CAD. Notably, it will also provide different Command Benefits to the Baal Strike Force Detachment (BSFD) from the base Blood Angels Codex. In addition to the Cool Flesh-Tearers Detachment (CFTD), the Supplement will also contains a few Formations. Just like all other Formations, each of these is quite specific with what you must take to make them work, but also provide some nice Special Rules to help make up for the loss of flexibility. Okay, so now that we have our 'menu' of choices, we can then combine them in any way we see fit to play a Blood Angels Faction army. Ignoring the incorporation of any allies for the sake of this explanation, you could run any and all of these together, within your points limitation, in pretty much any way that you see fit. I was going to provide some examples, but there is no way that I could exhaust all of your options (especially since I don't know what's really in the codex yet, and whether you'll get a supplement, although I expect that you will). The hardest part, if you choose to mix and match among the various choices, will be in keeping all of the units straight with regard to which belong to which Detachment/Formation, and that is important, as they all have their own Special Rules or Command Benefits that do not cross over. Summary of Detachments: Combined Arms Detachment Baal Strike Force Detachment Possible Cool Flesh-Tearers Detachment Summary of Formations (which are a special type of Detachment): Blood Angels Battle Company Supplement Formation #1 Supplement Formation #2 Supplement Formation #3 Supplement Formation #4 * Deathstorm Formation * Formation from the Shield of Baal: Deathstorm campaign boxed set Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Thanks for the link and explanation. I understand it well enough, but the 7th ed force org just seems so needlessly complex. Maybe I just need to give it some time to get used to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsijben Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I had that too, and all of the sudden I understood it all and my first thought was: "Well, this is actually so easy.. Why didn't I get this?" I made this image that kind of explains it: http://s27.postimg.org/slu6nmg0j/Detachments.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Unfortunately it is in GW's efforts to get us to get other forces to plug the gaps in our own often with woefully bad play testing as allies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 You deserve a medal. Flow charts are very nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Thanks for the link and explanation. I understand it well enough, but the 7th ed force org just seems so needlessly complex. Maybe I just need to give it some time to get used to it.The different FOCs of the various detachments are not any more complex than the 6th Ed primary detachments. Only the numbers change, but I can see how this takes a bit getting used to. What I do not like about many of the detachments is that you still have to pay the troops tax and do not get Objective Secured. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 What I do not like about many of the detachments is that you still have to pay the troops tax and do not get Objective Secured. Several of the new 7th edition Faction-specific Detachments and Formations have been very lacklustre, if not unusable, but some are quite decent and will content with defaulting to CAD, depending on style of play. The rumored Baal Strike Force Detachment, with its extra Elite slot and the +1 Initiative on assaults is one of the better ones, and will easily compete with CAD and its associated Objective Secured. Those Command Benefits are good no matter how you construct your army, or how you intend to fight. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 It is pretty complicated. Easy once you get it I'm sure, but if multiple long forum posts and user-created diagrams and flow charts are necessary to explain it - it's too complicated. I can see 7th Ed being a barrier to new players getting into the game... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I just stick to the basic FOC, luckily most of the locals cant be bothered with all the formation extra doodads either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 *So, Dante is 220 points apparently. He can take a separate lord trait along with his descent of angels. Has a 6" fear bubble. *Furioso Force Halberd is a powerfist with Force but without Specialist Weapon, so no +1A. *Sanguinary Priest 60pts WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+chainsword, narthecium, frags&kraks, power armor, blood chalice(+1WS to unit)ATSKNF, Furious Charge, Independent CharacterMay take a bolt pistol for +1ptMay take items from melee weapons, ranged weapons, special wargear and Relics of Baal. *Corbulo - 120ptsWS5 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv3+narthecium, frags&kraks, power armor, bolt pistolRelics: Heaven's Teeth (+1S AP- Melee, Rending), Red Grail (+1WS&I for everyone within 6", doesn't stack with blood chaliceATSKNF, Furious Charge, Independent CharacterFar-seeing Eye: One reroll per game for one of the following: Seize, Reserves, Scatter or to-hit/to wound/save *Libby dreads are HQ dreads for 150pts. Mastery1 baseline, can buy Mastery2 for 25pts. Weapons are described above, but cannot exchange the fist for anything except replacing the stormbolter with heavy flamer or melta. Can be warlord, but can only roll on the BA traits if he is. Otherwise he's a dread with +1AV on the front. And we have Fast attack rhinos now for some reason. And storm raven became fast attack as well.A guy on 4chan just posted a codex picture and wrote all this. A grain of salt is needed but not much of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Frag cannons..... What about the frag cannons /sigh Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Frag cannons..... What about the frag cannons /sigh I was late to the thread and no one asked the question. He is gone now. We will learn eventually. For gods sake sometimes it seems like no one ever uses the frag cannon. It is the one thing I am worried about the most. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Anyone notice that the preview for a blood angels battle company has a rule called 'the red thirst'?? http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2014/dec/09/codex-ba-7.png Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Anyone notice that the preview for a blood angels battle company has a rule called 'the red thirst'?? http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2014/dec/09/codex-ba-7.png I am more interested in angels virtue. What that might be? Is that from the booklet that comes with the limited edition codex? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 It is pretty complicated. Easy once you get it I'm sure, but if multiple long forum posts and user-created diagrams and flow charts are necessary to explain it - it's too complicated. I can see 7th Ed being a barrier to new players getting into the game... It's really not complicated at all. Take detachment, put units in detachment without breaking the restrictions, repeat until you run out of points. The only people who seem to be finding it complicated are the ones making it so by bringing a load of assumptions from previous editions that no longer apply. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaweda Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Fast attack Stormravens! Yes! Since I'm happy with switching my assault squads for jumpack DC and SG, I was sad about Baal Predators going heavy since I wanted 2 of them and 2 stormravens. But now...joy! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Anyone notice that the preview for a blood angels battle company has a rule called 'the red thirst'?? http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2014/dec/09/codex-ba-7.png I am more interested in angels virtue. What that might be? Is that from the booklet that comes with the limited edition codex?It's apparently from the normal codex, black library have some previews up. Angels virtue and the red thirst... I'm interested to know what both are to be honest! Also, confirmation that assault squads are fast attack http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2014/dec/09/codex-ba-8.png (Based on the above, storm ravens are not fast attack) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Eisenhorn Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'm willing to bet that "the red thirst" is just their colorful name for giving us army-wide furious charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaweda Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Anyone notice that the preview for a blood angels battle company has a rule called 'the red thirst'?? http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2014/dec/09/codex-ba-7.png I am more interested in angels virtue. What that might be? Is that from the booklet that comes with the limited edition codex?It's apparently from the normal codex, black library have some previews up. Angels virtue and the red thirst... I'm interested to know what both are to be honest! Also, confirmation that assault squads are fast attack http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2014/dec/09/codex-ba-8.png (Based on the above, storm ravens are not fast attack) Blasted heretics getting my hopes up! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
girot Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 So is it confirmed they ditched TDA Priests?? I've got 5 of them, but only one painted. I can salvage the other four if I need to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 So is it confirmed they ditched TDA Priests?? I've got 5 of them, but only one painted. I can salvage the other four if I need to. No it is not confirmed, but the source seems reasonable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/62/#findComment-3884760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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