Duke Danse Macabre Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Anyone Else grumbling over Blood Angels being able to take 4 Melta's in a drop pod for 135 points? (Or so the rumours say) Kinda irks me they can get closer, faster and be better in combat with a similar load out to our Dominors... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercus Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 It's only the same as codex marines have been able to do for a couple of editions now. Command squad can run four meltas, sternguard can run ten if you count combi weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naminé Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 It's only the same as codex marines have been able to do for a couple of editions now. Command squad can run four meltas, sternguard can run ten if you count combi weapons. well technically they could run 5 in a drop pod for 185 points, but then command squads are probably the best unit in the Space Marine codex. I don't see BA getting things for much less points then that but remember it's all relative... BA's have many fast delivery options whereas Sisters don't. It's a weakness of ours that we pay a premium to overcome. Having said that, I firmly believe Sister's units are overcosted and a basic battle sister should be at most, 11 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Its not command squads mate. The taticals are being painted as taking two sepcial weapons or 1 special and 1 heavy and the Sargent can take 2 inferus pistols himself. Thats why it has me worried, nothing to do with command squads. I agree there though mate, our basic sisters cost too much and I would be far happier with 10 to 11 points basic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naminé Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Its not command squads mate. The taticals are being painted as taking two sepcial weapons or 1 special and 1 heavy and the Sargent can take 2 inferus pistols himself. Thats why it has me worried, nothing to do with command squads. I agree there though mate, our basic sisters cost too much and I would be far happier with 10 to 11 points basic. Well assuming standard weapon costs, I can't see that happening for less then 155 points, which is still 10 points more then our Doms in a Rhino, I know its still super cheap for what they get It shouldn't impact things too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Well they are quoting a different price from the BA dex they have, not sure how but they are. To be honest past my annoyance at it, there is not a huge change, I just don''t like other forces being able to take one of the few aces we have. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 They don't get to ignore cover, Sisters do. Sisters can get 5 in a squad if you include a combi-weapon. All five meltaguns in a Dominion squad have a 6/12" range. Two of the Blood Angel ones are 3/6, meaning popping vehicles is a more dangerous prospect for them. It takes killing all five Sisters to remove the meltaguns (assuming no breaking). It takes killing three Blood Angels. Sisters have a 1/6 chance of shrugging off AP1-3 attacks. Blood Angels can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Besides, it's only fair. How long have we been gloating every time a Marine begs for double specials in their tac squads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 About as much time as they've been gloating every time a sister begs for plastics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 About as much time as they've been gloating every time a sister begs for plastics. ouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 BA command squads come fixed with a company champion and an apothecary, so it's a maximum of 3 meltas in one squad. Spamming pistols aint worth the points. Don't worry, BA won't out-melta or out-flame sisters any time soon ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfThunder Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Its not command squads mate. The taticals are being painted as taking two sepcial weapons or 1 special and 1 heavy and the Sargent can take 2 inferus pistols himself. Thats why it has me worried, nothing to do with command squads. I agree there though mate, our basic sisters cost too much and I would be far happier with 10 to 11 points basic. Well assuming standard weapon costs, I can't see that happening for less then 155 points, which is still 10 points more then our Doms in a Rhino, I know its still super cheap for what they get It shouldn't impact things too much. It's ASM, not tacticals. Tactical squads can only get 1 special and 1 heavy, and it's 1 for each 5 men. Assault squads can get 2 specials in 5 men, and the sarge can get 2 infernus pistols (which have half the range of a MG, and are more expensive). The squad can swap their jump packs for a drop pod, that's how you get the whole pack for 135 pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yeh, I was going from rumours before I got the codex mate. Still as i was saying though, Infernus pistols still count as melta though. Still more flexible than ours, been one of the few things that sister get to wave in the face of marines once we slowly travel to the otherside of the board so they are inside our range. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendal1989 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 BA command squads come fixed with a company champion and an apothecary, so it's a maximum of 3 meltas in one squad. Spamming pistols aint worth the points. Don't worry, BA won't out-melta or out-flame sisters any time soon yeah, They have too many other toys to distract them anyways.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yeh, I was going from rumours before I got the codex mate. Still as i was saying though, Infernus pistols still count as melta though. Still more flexible than ours, been one of the few things that sister get to wave in the face of marines once we slowly travel to the otherside of the board so they are inside our range. How do they match up against Seraphim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Seraphim are very specialized, it's difficult to compare them to a marine unit. I view them as a highly mobile, anti infantry, shooty unit. They don't really want to assault most of the time, just maximize that act of faith vs a nice target. I'd say seraphim excel in their role but lack the flexibility compared to the BA equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yes, but in the context of jump melta delivery, how do they compare, I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Well the melta pistols suffer from short range and high cost. So having 2 regular meltas makes the assault marines better IMHO. I almost exclusively see seraphim with hand flamers, didn't know they were popular melta caddies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 It's generally considered that Dominions are better for melta-delivery, but I was curious on the direct comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Huh. And apparently, according to White Dwarf, our role in the Flesh Tearer incident on Armageddon has been upgraded from "watched them slaughter the Guard and filed a report" to "allegedly wiped out by them". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 if you're talking popping vehicles, I would assume BA ASM are better than Seraphim only because they have the exra 6" range on the meltaguns and T4, though the Seraphim will have that odd chance of shrugging off plasma and lascannon shots. Also, if the rumor is true, you would have to remove three models to eliminate all of the melta-weapons in the squad of ASM vs two for Seraphim. Shooting at MEQ or TEQ, I would think Seraphim are better solely because everyone in the squad (except maybe the Superior) has gunfiter. Math coming - hit enter trying to put in a new line and browser submitted >.> Edit: Mathhammer / Theorycrafting. 5 BA ASM vs MEQ 4 * Melta/inferno shots @ BS4 * 2 2/3 hits * 2 2/9 dead (2.2222) 2 * Bolt pistol shots @ BS4 * 1 1/3 hits * 4/6 wounds * 2/9 dead (0.2222) Total casualties inflicted: 2.444 5 Seraphim vs MEQ 4 * Melta/inferno shots @ BS4 w/ Shred * 2 2/3 hits * 2 16/27 dead (2.592) 5 * Bolt pistol shots @ BS4 (assumes superior upgraded to power sword) * 3 1/3 hits * 1 2/3 wounds * 1 7/18 dead (1.388) Total casualties inflicted: 4.467592 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendal1989 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I think the biggest issue with the seraphim is that you have to very close to inflict those wounds. The ASM have roughly double the threat range, for both infantry and tank popping. So using seraphim requires more finesse, although perhaps more survivable. Definitely classier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 On the survivability issue, outside of Dark Reapers I can't think of any AP3 or better weapon that isn't S6. Vs. small arms fire (boltguns, lasguns, tau pulse rifles, etc) and anything S5 or less, Space Marines will be more survivable because of their T4. Against AP3 or better, Angelic Visage effectively gives Seraphim a 5+ invulnerable (6++ re-rollable = 11/36). Since all of those weapons (again, except Dark Reapers) are S6+, they wound both on a 2+. Statistically 1 in 6 Space Marines (16.67%) will survive AP3 shots while just over 42% of all seraphim will survive such fire. Rending weapons get weird because, until they hit S6 or if there's ever a S1 rending weapon printed, they tend to favor Space Marines but just barely. At the two extremes, Seraphim have a 5% higher chance of survivability. Rending S1 -SM: Only wounded on 6. 83.33% live -Seraphim: Only wounded on 6. 88.42% live Rending S2 -SM: As S1. 83.33% live -Seraphim: 82.87% live Rending S3 -SM: 77.77% live -Seraphim: 77.31% live Rending S4 -SM: 72.22% live -Seraphim: 71.76% Rending S5 -SM: 66.67% -Seraphim: 66.20% Rending S6+ -SM: 61.11% -Seraphim: 66.20% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Huh. And apparently, according to White Dwarf, our role in the Flesh Tearer incident on Armageddon has been upgraded from "watched them slaughter the Guard and filed a report" to "allegedly wiped out by them". Stay classy, Games Workshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Actually, upon reflection, it's bad for us, but it's even worse from a Flesh Tearer point of view. Old story: They got carried away and overran into their own support unit who had been flanking the opponent. New story: They randomly attacked a bunch of Sororitas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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