LutherMax Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Does anyone have any tips for making sure you get the charge when moving into close combat? I often run into the problem of the opponent charging me when I get too close (particularly when I'm using Death Company) to remove all the nice bonuses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Does anyone have any tips for making sure you get the charge when moving into close combat? I often run into the problem of the opponent charging me when I get too close (particularly when I'm using Death Company) to remove all the nice bonuses! Keep a distance that would result in a 10" charge for the enemy. Without fleet it is unlikely to happen but he might attempt it. If you have two units, let one get charged and charge with the second one in return. Positioning and mind games is the only thing beyond that. Other than that, do not run too much melee, because you will be shot to death if you become too focused on getting the charge. As for actually making a charge, do not shoot the unit before charging. Your distance will be greater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Does anyone have any tips for making sure you get the charge when moving into close combat? I often run into the problem of the opponent charging me when I get too close (particularly when I'm using Death Company) to remove all the nice bonuses! This is the single biggest threat to my schemes. I would offer suggestions, but I'm the guy who more often than not rolls 3 when attempting a 4" charge. To paraphrase that saying: no plan survives first contact with the dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaweda Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 A stormraven. Get it where you want them, and charge out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 Ha yeah that could work as long as it doesn't get melta'd to death when hovering! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Get you Death Company Jump packs. As well as giving you a 12" move, they can reroll their charge distance. Simples! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Ha yeah that could work as long as it doesn't get melta'd to death when hovering! If it's hovering in the enemy's shooting phase that means the troops have already disembarked and done their thing in your turn. Also the raven comes with ceramite plating so not too bad for melta there. If you want a reliable assault transport as priority, go for the caestus. Get you Death Company Jump packs. As well as giving you a 12" move, they can reroll their charge distance. Simples! :D That re-roll only applies if they don't use the packs in the movement phase, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 What about Land Raiders? Pros/cons versus Stormraven? If I were to go with the Raven I think I would invest in a Skyshield landing pad to get it on the table turn 1. The landing pad then gives 4+ invul to a camping shooty unit like Devs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 It depends on meta, Land Raiders are quite horrible vs lists with a lot of anti armor, but great vs other type of lists. Using a Stormraven with a landing pad is kinda risky and a pretty huge tax. I have had much more success using a Stormraven for DC than compared to Land Raiders (old dex), but they don't get shot down a lot in our games. But if you are playing 1750 and put 500 into a flyer unit there is a fair chanse you will loose all of it before you can hover, anti air or not. Kinda difficult to answer in a generalist way. Land Raiders will make it easier to get charge off, but at what cost? In the old dex Stormravens where risky, but considering all the weak unit's we had before you really had to take a lot of early risks and play a high variance game. Now we can build safer/reliable lists with less variance. It's the same with Land Raiders, you run a big risk loosing a lot of your army points/mobility vs a single melta shot. You could just field an extra jump assault unit for the points saved from LR. Use terrain to give opponent 2" charge penality and move them around 8" away. Use impassible when possible that you can jump over. Look at opponents lists, if he is more shooty then you then you can't really wait for ideal charge cirumstances. If you are using Rhinos or other ground veichles you can make it a lot tougher for the opponent to get charges off. It really depends on what type of list you are using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContemptuousAngel Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Stormraven; the turn it comes in you can move 36" and shoot four weapons. The next turn should see you switching to hover (also snap firing because you'd be jinking during his turn), moving 12", getting your dudes out and assaulting. If you can't pull off an assault this way, i would ask how large your gaming table is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Troops can only disembark if the raven moves 6" or less. Edit: typo. Damn phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContemptuousAngel Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Troops can only disembark if the raven moves 6" or less. Edit: typo. Damn phone. Since when? If this is true it still doesn't change much 42" vs 48". Anyway it works as a fast skimmer, move 12", disembark, assault, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Troops can only disembark if the raven moves 6" or less. Edit: typo. Damn phone. Since when? If this is true it still doesn't change much 42" vs 48". Anyway it works as a fast skimmer, move 12", disembark, assault, right? All vehicles are disembark after 6 inches only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Troops can only disembark if the raven moves 6" or less. Edit: typo. Damn phone. Since when? Since 6th ed. Anyway it works as a fast skimmer, move 12", disembark, assault, right? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sans Mercy Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Looks like you've got some phone calls to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 That's the one thing I rarely use my phone for :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContemptuousAngel Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Ah, oh well. I did not assault at all in 6th, and I've only had a few 7th Ed games and where I played wrong my opponents did as well. That really sucks, though. Still, 42" is a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 You can disembark a Raven after moving more than 6" but only using the Skies of Fury method: deep strike at any point the Raven has passed over, roll for scatter, take a dangerous terrain test, can't charge that turn. Pretty rubbish / useless. The 42" move then assault is still quite good but the problem is the Raven starting in reserve. Comes in turn 2 earliest, so assault turn 3 earliest. Fail your reserve roll and it's turn 3/4, 5/6 etc. Not good if you have your premier assault unit in it. That's why I'm thinking Skyshield landing pad. 80 points and your Raven is on the board turn 1. You can only move off in hover mode but at least you know its there! Plus the Skyshield confers a 4+ invul save to units on it - good for a Dev squad with four missile launchers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContemptuousAngel Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 True but even assaulting from a Landraider or jump packs we're talking earliest assault at turn 3 unless your opponent is really rushing you with fleet units. The Sanguine Strike Force gives us an almost automatic assault on turn 2. But it's pricy and hard to pull off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContemptuousAngel Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 You can disembark a Raven after moving more than 6" but only using the Skies of Fury method: deep strike at any point the Raven has passed over, roll for scatter, take a dangerous terrain test, can't charge that turn. Pretty rubbish / useless. The 42" move then assault is still quite good but the problem is the Raven starting in reserve. Comes in turn 2 earliest, so assault turn 3 earliest. Fail your reserve roll and it's turn 3/4, 5/6 etc. Not good if you have your premier assault unit in it. That's why I'm thinking Skyshield landing pad. 80 points and your Raven is on the board turn 1. You can only move off in hover mode but at least you know its there! Plus the Skyshield confers a 4+ invul save to units on it - good for a Dev squad with four missile launchers... Just a thought, if you're playing guard or anything that can outrange or has a strong alpha strike ability and they get the first turn that expensive set up of the SR, assault unit, and sky shield is going to be toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 I have only played against Chaos (Marines/Daemons), Nids and Marines. With Nids in particular being the one to charge is important - otherwise those nasties can easily out-assault the Sons of Sanguinius. The game is clearly well balanced in terms of any one player guaranteeing themselves the charge bonus. I think the answer lies in movement and position, regardless of how the force is deployed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContemptuousAngel Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Your set up should work fantastically against Nids, for certain, but as a chaos player my answer would be a defiler and a land raider. As vanilla would be drop pods and meltas. If you don't get first turn anyone with sense will do their level best to destroy that. I feel like you're better off if you're able to jink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Frag cannons love the smell of Nids in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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