Your Undercoat of Choice?

[awilden]

I believe Army painter has something that's similar. Dragon Red? Someone who knows better should help.

I have a question for you guys who undercoat black. How can you paint what you can't see? Whenever I undercoat something black (say, Death Company) I find myself suffering badly from being unable to see things. That's why I go out of my way to find black paint sprays that aren't exactly black, but a grayish off black (normally a poor quality for a black paint ).

Lol i get what you mean, it is a lot easier to see lighter undercoated minis to paint them. I've had issues with grey undercoat and painting plastic minis, essentially painting grey on grey lol, and not being sure if its all fully covered, or if its actually being sprayed on the right spot.

You could always paint them black and do what was suggested above where you then lightly spray white (or grey) on-top to get pre-highlighting. Or even just go black undercoat, then a normal grey paint on top (non-undercoat) if that's what you have available.

[Jolemai]

[whisper]You guys might want to edit that before a mod sees it...[/whisper]

[Lucien Eilam]

These days, I use whatever's to hand. Every paint range I use (Citadel, VMC/VMA, ScaleColor) has sufficient pigment density that the underlying colour is completely irrelevant. The days of a white undercoat translating to brighter colours seem to be long gone.

 

I have a slight preference for Citadel Chaos Black spray, for its consistently smooth finish, but white does make it easier to spot any mould lines I missed before its too late.

 

I remember at launch GW saying Citadel Base paints had been formulated to work straight from the pot over plastic or resin without undercoat, but that's a bit thick for my tastes and I usually airbrush my base coat, so a proper undercoat is essential.

[Remtek]

Here is an example with black undercoat/grey overspray. If you do a blood red after this you get some free shading on panels. Easiest to do with an airbrush, but works with spray cans as well. The general way is to do white first, then shade, but with red i found the oposite to be easier. This is before washes.  

 

[MinamotoKansuke]

During the Warhammer Open Day in Nottingham last year I talked with some Heavy Metal staff about this.

 

They told me that the army painters who work at GW have to do a lot of models fast and sometimes they use matching

colour primers, but Heavy Metal guys, who want the best paintjob possible, use ONLY black primers, even for bright yellow models.

 

The reason? Texture. It's much smoother, and the white one has some grain to it.

[ChapelXIII]

Is there any off-brand that is a match for Mephiston Red? I would love to be able to go into Wal-Mart or Home Depot and buy a Mephiston Red clone.

Army Painter has two reds, dragon red which is close to Mephiston red but a bit to dark, and Pure red which is a bit to light. Pure red is a lot like the old blood red from before the citadel color changes.

I have a question for you guys who undercoat black. How can you paint what you can't see? Whenever I undercoat something black (say, Death Company) I find myself suffering badly from Can't See **** Syndrome. That's why I go out of my way to find black paint sprays that aren't exactly black, but a grayish off black (normally a poor quality for a black paint ).

I actually always have a larger issue if it isn't painted black, but I think that might just be me. One think you could think about if you are having that issue is doing a quick light dry brush on the model to make the edges pop a bit more. It will look good on the finished model, and it will also help you make out the details you need to see. Oh, and I don't know what your lighting situation is, but you could look into a nice desk lamp which could help.

[Karhedron]

 

I used to paint my Blood Angels like that. Carroburg Crimson won't work. It's way too dark and, um, crimsony. I'd try either the Bloodletter Glaze (though I don't think it's dark enough) or making your own wash mixing Lahmian Medium with either Evil Sunz Scarlet or Wild Rider Red.

Thanks for the tip. I think some experimentation is definitely required. 

[appiah4]

My understanding is that Carrabourgh Crimson gives you what ogryn flesh followed by baal red did (my current method).

 

Once I run out of my last pot of baal red I'll convert to songle step Carrabourgh waahing, and highlight from there.

[awilden]

[whisper]You guys might want to edit that before a mod sees it...[/whisper]

Ah didn't realise, sorry about that. I'll remember next time, sometimes you get so used to using certain words in everyday life it just seems normal.

[awilden]

During the Warhammer Open Day in Nottingham last year I talked with some Heavy Metal staff about this.

 

They told me that the army painters who work at GW have to do a lot of models fast and sometimes they use matching

colour primers, but Heavy Metal guys, who want the best paintjob possible, use ONLY black primers, even for bright yellow models.

 

The reason? Texture. It's much smoother, and the white one has some grain to it.

Thats GW black/white though right? i remember talking to a GW store manager and hearing about the white spray being a little dusty/grainy, and to use black instead. I guess the heavy metal guys need to use GW paints and not another brand. I found several colours of the Vallejo brand to all be fairly consistently good texture (granted they are airbrush paint and not out of a can so would be different by definition to start).

[Saul Invictus]

I use black undercoat on my Ultramarines, Grey Knights, and Blood Angels, for the most part. My Sanguinary Guard, Grey Knight ghosts, House Hawkshroud Knight were all undercoated white, never had a problem with the white spray.

[elmo]

I use black spray as an undercoat on everything.

 

If it is going to stay black (Ravenwing and would work for Death Company) then I use GW spray, if it is just as an undercoat then Army Painter matt black. I find that the GW black gives a better finish as a top coat.

 

I Use Army Painter Skeleton spray for Deathwing, Tamyia Nato Green TS61 (closest thing to Castellan Green I have found) for my Imperial Guard and Army Painter Angel Green for my DA over the black base. I have used the Army Painter red on another project but that was a while ago.

 

Not a great help for Blood Angels but it gives you an idea :)

[IronKobra]

I have tried a bunch and I steer clear of the Games Workshop stuff... It rubs off so easily even when painting. I don't think it is even a primer, I believe it is just black paint in an aerosol can.

 

I have used the Army Painter Dragon Red and I actually think it came out quite nice. I am sitting on a tank that I used it on and think will come out quite nice. Though I find it too heavy for infantry given you have to apply it quite close and relatively thick.

 

I LOVE the Vallejo Polyeurathane primers! Since I started using these all my spray primers have been forgotten about. They are so tough, apply really thin and smooth and you have so much control through an airbrush! I have given the black, followed by German Red/Brown a go and it looks ace as a starting point.

[ThatOneMarshal]

This thread is actually very helpful for me since I'm repairing my marines right now. I wondering though I'm a big fan of the old really bright blood angels. How would you guys do the base coat and color scheme as a whole. I was thinking white but after reading the thread I'm not to sure.

[Jolemai]

In my case, it's white followed by Blood Red/Evil Sunz Scarlet. I shade with Flesh Wash and highlight with Fiery Orange.

[appiah4]

In my case, it's white followed by Blood Red/Evil Sunz Scarlet. I shade with Flesh Wash and highlight with Fiery Orange.

 

Hmm, pretty nice, really.  I also use flesh washes on top of red, I find they are great for the shadowing.  However, with grey undercoats I find that the red turns a little too brown, so I tend to glaze it with a thinned down baal red wash (I'd probably use bloodletter glaze out of the pot if I had any) before I begin highlighting.  You probably don't need the extra step due to starting from a lighter undercoat :)

[appiah4]

This thread is actually very helpful for me since I'm repairing my marines right now. I wondering though I'm a big fan of the old really bright blood angels. How would you guys do the base coat and color scheme as a whole. I was thinking white but after reading the thread I'm not to sure.

 

If you want the old bright red color scheme you almost definitely will need some red artist's inks.  Foregoing that, I'd recomment white undercoat followed by a bright red basecoat, flesh wash into the recesses (wash-lining if you will) and then highlight the reds up to a pure orange.  After that, you can follow with a blood letter glaze if you want to tone down the highlights.. but old school BA have orange-ish red and orange highlights.

[Angelus Mortifer]

Agree with several posters here that despite the price, GW Black spray is consistently the best for excellent coverage. The white version can be hit or miss sometimes I've found. As for type, it depends on what I'm painting, as it is for many others.

 

For my death company and Librarian types I use black. For all my red Blood Angels, and anything gold I use white. For the gold, a white undercoat lightens the model considerably, and gives you a brighter end product, whereas the black gives you a deeper, more weatherworn gold look. Depends what you are going for I guess.

 

However, for my rank and file my recipe still uses the old OOP Citadel Inks for the red, and the white undercoat gives me a brighter finish:

 

- White undercoat

- 2x wash of Red Ink

- Reikland Flesh Shade recess wash

- Blood Red layer

- Blazing Orange (or GW equivalent) edge highlight

 

Example:

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx54/SebJones_photos/Blood%20Angels/Falken1.jpg

[Jolemai]

Yellow recipe please

[Angelus Mortifer]

Yellow recipe please

Mine?

Similar to my red recipe above.

- White undercoat

- Gryphonne Sepia recess wash (yes, straight over the white undercoat. The reason being the next stage)

- 2x wash of Yellow Ink (because it's quite transparent, the Sepia in the recesses still shows through, but the tone is softened and kind of blends better into the yellow of the ink, rather than doing ink first then recess wash)

- Sunburst Yellow layer

- 1:3 mix of White Scar and Sunburst Yellow for an edge highlight (difficult to see above because of the pic, and because it has worn off a bit from constant use)

The old Yellow Ink is a really rich yellow, which I like, and combined with the white undercoat it really helps make the helmets pop. Hope that helps.

[Angelus Mortifer]

As a follow-on to the above for the yellow, you can probably replicate the same approach if you wanted to, using a white undercoat, Reikland recess wash, and then whatever the equivalent yellow wash is with GW nowadays (haven't had to use it in a while).

 

Not sure what the end effect would be before you apply the yellow layer, but GW's yellows have generally been semi-transparent to a degree and having a white base and maybe the yellow washes down first will help produce a cleaner more consistent yellow.

[Karhedron]

I used to paint my Blood Angels like that. Carroburg Crimson won't work. It's way too dark and, um, crimsony. I'd try either the Bloodletter Glaze (though I don't think it's dark enough) or making your own wash mixing Lahmian Medium with either Evil Sunz Scarlet or Wild Rider Red.

Thanks for the tip. I think some experimentation is definitely required.

You were right, Carroburg crimson definitely didn't give the finish I was looking for. Although it looks similar in the pot, when I actually applied it, it was a much browner shade with none of the purple tinge that the Magenta wash had.

Bit of a shame as it actually looked quite good and the new washes shade much better than the old inks. But I don't want my newer units looking a completely different colour to my existing army so it looks like I will have to make the most of my dwindling stocks of Magenta.

On the plus side, I tested on a spare backpack so I don't have to worry about loads of repainting. The base of AP Pure Red followed by highlights of Ryza Rust and Hexos Palesun worked very well though and actually gave almost the same finish as my old painting recipe for a lot less effort of mixing.

Anyone want a pot of Carroburg Crimson, barely use?

[Urauloth]

I've always used black for everything at all times but I've invested in one of the Army Painter reds recently which I'm looking forward to trying out (it's going to be great for my Word Bearers even if I end up deciding on a BA successor that doesn't require it)

 

I use AP black, now, rather than GW, as the matching paint in a pot is really useful.

[shaun03]

These days, I use whatever's to hand. Every paint range I use (Citadel, VMC/VMA, ScaleColor) has sufficient pigment density that the underlying colour is completely irrelevant. The days of a white undercoat translating to brighter colours seem to be long gone.

 

I have a slight preference for Citadel Chaos Black spray, for its consistently smooth finish, but white does make it easier to spot any mould lines I missed before its too late.

 

I remember at launch GW saying Citadel Base paints had been formulated to work straight from the pot over plastic or resin without undercoat, but that's a bit thick for my tastes and I usually airbrush my base coat, so a proper undercoat is essential.

Have you had any thinning issue with your scale color? I can't seem to get it thin for my air brush, it's either too watery or thick and clogs up my gun. I am running iwata CM-C plus, I spend more time cleaning it than airburshing

[Lucien Eilam]

Have you had any thinning issue with your scale color? I can't seem to get it thin for my air brush, it's either too watery or thick and clogs up my gun. I am running iwata CM-C plus, I spend more time cleaning it than airburshing

I don't know how much experience you have with airbrushing, so apologies if any of this seems obvious or patronising. You're juggling a lot of variables when airbrushing miniatures, and it took me a while to get a feel for it. This is my current approach with ScaleColor:

I use a drop of Vallejo retarder medium and then thin it with Vallejo airbrush thinner until it will leave a thin layer on the bottle when shaken that takes a while to clear (often called a "milky consistency" - just like the residue left after drinking a glass of milk).

I run it through an Iwata HP-CH, standard 0.3mm needle/nozzle, at ~10-20 PSI and get more or less opaque coverage with 2-3 coats, even with yellow over black. Higher pressure or getting too close can blow the paint around and off the model, but the MAC valve makes it easier to get it just right.

Your Custom Micron comes standard with a high precision 0.23mm needle, so it'll be a bit less forgiving, but I think it should still work.

If you're hoping for solid base coat coverage in a single layer, I'd advise a cheap, crude spray gun (like the Citadel one) instead of the brush, and blast it through at high pressure. A precision instrument like your Custom Micron won't put up with treatment like that. I prefer the slow but steady approach of 2-3 thin coats, but if you have an entire army to do in a hurry, it's an option. Then switch back to the airbrush for highlighting.

Constant cleaning is a fact of life with airbrushes, but I run 50/50 Vallejo airbrush cleaner and water through it at high pressure between colours, and neat cleaner when I'm done, and it's not too onerous. Allowing paint to dry inside it is the worst thing, so I'm pretty diligent with doing my chores.