Legion Rapier Batteries (Quad Mortars)

[Operative]

Hello

 

I've been told that quad mortars are an effective choice for a legion list and I am planning to incorporate them into my Iron Warriors Army List but I have a few questions:

 

How many should I take in a 2000 point list?

Do they work particularly well with certain units?

Can anybody remember the stats of the actual quad mortar gun?

 

Also I know this is the tactics section but does anyone have any tips on how to convert one?

 

Thanks everyone!

[Slips]

A battery of 3 Quad Mortars takes up 180 points and an Elites slot. How many you take, is up to you / how many free elites slots you have.

 

Shatter Shells are S8 AP3 Sunder (there may be a blast in there)

Frag Shells are S5 AP5 Barrage, Shell Shock (-1ld on pinning or w/e)

 

the important thing to not is that rapiers are T7 though the crew are still T4

 

 

Edit: Corrections.

[ROBOcaster]

A battery of 3 Quad Mortars takes up 180 points and an Elites slot. How many you take, is up to you / how many free elites slots you have.

 

Shatter Shells are S8 AP3 Sunder (there may be a blast in there)

Frag Shells are S5 AP5 Barrage, Shell Shock (-1ld on pinning or w/e)

 

the important thing to not is that rapiers are T7 though the crew are still T4

 

 

Edit: Corrections.

 

Can you give a reference for shatter shells? Are they only for IW?

 

Also as far as conversions go I simply use this because they do not have a Rapier Weapons Battery Quad yet.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Astra_Militarum_Emplacements/IMPERIAL-QUAD-LAUNCHER-THUDD-GUN.html

[Slips]

Its for all Quad Mortars (legion and auxilia). Currently in class so I can't give exacts but its found on the Mortar Entry in LA:CAL

[ROBOcaster]

Its for all Quad Mortars (legion and auxilia). Currently in class so I can't give exacts but its found on the Mortar Entry in LA:CAL

 

Thank you very much I have a few and never new they had that type of munitions.

[Slips]

Yep! Even Land Raider Achilles' Mortar gets them!

[Carlson793]

To clarify Slips' info on Quad Mortars:

Frag S5 AP5 - Hvy 4, Barrage, Blast (3"), Shell Shock

Shatter S8 AP4 - Hvy 4, Sunder

[Slips]

To clarify Slips' info on Quad Mortars:

Frag S5 AP5 - Hvy 4, Barrage, Blast (3"), Shell Shock

Shatter S8 AP4 - Hvy 4, Sunder

Hmm Shatter got toned down a bit? Thats what I get for Googling it and getting the LR Achilles' old FW PDF file for the Mortars profile...

 

But yeah, in a battery of 3 rapiers, you can dole out 12 S8 Ap4 Shot a turn at vehicles or 12 3" barrage Blasts.

[Operative]

So are shatter shells blast and if not what are their range?

[defl0]

The other things to note are that shatter shells are only 36" range. So deploy them centrally or use a legion like RG that can infiltrate them :p

 

For amount though, IWs are pretty easy. Buy 4 heavies. Figure out your troops and HQ. What ever is left goes into elites or ad mech :p Most likely you will only have enough points for one or two units. 

[depthcharge12]

Don't underestimate shatter shells, in a battery of three that's 12 shots, 8 of which should hit, and against AV12-13 you should annihilate a tank with that not even counting the rerolls from sunder (which is highly underrated).

 

I'd take a battery of two and attach a MoS to them and put em in cover to snipe AV12-13 tanks. You won't be able to explode them, but you will sure as hell glance them to death.

[SillyDreadnought]

I thought Shatter Shells were unique to the Achilles and the Achilles Alpha.

[Carlson793]

I thought Shatter Shells were unique to the Achilles and the Achilles Alpha.

Nope. Rapier Battery can take Quad Mortars. Quad Mortars come with both Shatter and Frag Shell. No stipulation this is not the case, or specific to the Achilles LRs.

[Moonstalker]

 

I thought Shatter Shells were unique to the Achilles and the Achilles Alpha.

Nope. Rapier Battery can take Quad Mortars. Quad Mortars come with both Shatter and Frag Shell. No stipulation this is not the case, or specific to the Achilles LRs.

 

 

Prior to LACAL, Shatter Shells were only for the Achilles Alpha.  I think that this is simply an editing error in LACAL - where the Achilles Alpha specifies that it comes with both frag and shatter (and in its fluff, Shatter Shells are rare and unique to it), the Rapier and Achilles entries just carry on as if shatter doesn't exist.  The entry in the back of the book lists frag and shatter as available ammo types for the quad mortar, so people assume that the Rapier and Achilles automatically have access to them.  Maybe they do, and this was a quiet buff to those two units in LACAL, but I find it more likely that they simply forgot to specify that those two units are frag only (since when their unit entries were first made and published, Shatter shells didn't even exist).

 

I sent an email to FW to see if they can clarify that.  Probably won't hear back till Monday.

[coloroutofspace]

Even without shatter shells, Quad Mortars are a decent choice.

[Praefectus Invictus]

Could you use a GW thunderfire cannon as a quad mortar? It has four barrels and looks like a weapons battery.

[Slips]

I mean, sure, why not? Who would truly try to contest that?

[coloroutofspace]

In fact, it's Achilles mortar's kin.

[Brofist]

A battery of 3 Quad Mortars takes up 180 points and an Elites slot. How many you take, is up to you / how many free elites slots you have.

 

Shatter Shells are S8 AP3 Sunder (there may be a blast in there)

Frag Shells are S5 AP5 Barrage, Shell Shock (-1ld on pinning or w/e)

 

the important thing to not is that rapiers are T7 though the crew are still T4

 

 

Edit: Corrections.

 

As long as one gun is alive in a unit, the crew get that sweet T7 as well :)

 

 

 

 

I thought Shatter Shells were unique to the Achilles and the Achilles Alpha.

Nope. Rapier Battery can take Quad Mortars. Quad Mortars come with both Shatter and Frag Shell. No stipulation this is not the case, or specific to the Achilles LRs.

 

 

Prior to LACAL, Shatter Shells were only for the Achilles Alpha.  I think that this is simply an editing error in LACAL - where the Achilles Alpha specifies that it comes with both frag and shatter (and in its fluff, Shatter Shells are rare and unique to it), the Rapier and Achilles entries just carry on as if shatter doesn't exist.  The entry in the back of the book lists frag and shatter as available ammo types for the quad mortar, so people assume that the Rapier and Achilles automatically have access to them.  Maybe they do, and this was a quiet buff to those two units in LACAL, but I find it more likely that they simply forgot to specify that those two units are frag only (since when their unit entries were first made and published, Shatter shells didn't even exist).

 

I sent an email to FW to see if they can clarify that.  Probably won't hear back till Monday.

 

 

Its the same in HH4, where the rapier battery entry has both frag and shatter shells in the entry and wargear section. Its definitely not consistent, and I used to ere on your train of thought, but it feels like an intentional change.

[Dono1979]

They only get T7 vs ranged attacks, in CC they revert to their natural stat line.

[Moonstalker]

A battery of 3 Quad Mortars takes up 180 points and an Elites slot. How many you take, is up to you / how many free elites slots you have.

Shatter Shells are S8 AP3 Sunder (there may be a blast in there)

Frag Shells are S5 AP5 Barrage, Shell Shock (-1ld on pinning or w/e)

the important thing to not is that rapiers are T7 though the crew are still T4

Edit: Corrections.

As long as one gun is alive in a unit, the crew get that sweet T7 as well

I thought Shatter Shells were unique to the Achilles and the Achilles Alpha.

Nope. Rapier Battery can take Quad Mortars. Quad Mortars come with both Shatter and Frag Shell. No stipulation this is not the case, or specific to the Achilles LRs.

Prior to LACAL, Shatter Shells were only for the Achilles Alpha. I think that this is simply an editing error in LACAL - where the Achilles Alpha specifies that it comes with both frag and shatter (and in its fluff, Shatter Shells are rare and unique to it), the Rapier and Achilles entries just carry on as if shatter doesn't exist. The entry in the back of the book lists frag and shatter as available ammo types for the quad mortar, so people assume that the Rapier and Achilles automatically have access to them. Maybe they do, and this was a quiet buff to those two units in LACAL, but I find it more likely that they simply forgot to specify that those two units are frag only (since when their unit entries were first made and published, Shatter shells didn't even exist).

I sent an email to FW to see if they can clarify that. Probably won't hear back till Monday.

Its the same in HH4, where the rapier battery entry has both frag and shatter shells in the entry and wargear section. Its definitely not consistent, and I used to ere on your train of thought, but it feels like an intentional change.

That's some good evidence that it might be, but the SA Quad Mortar option also costs more than the one available to Legions. Very inconsistent. Unfortunately, I didn't hear anything back from FW today. Guess they're busy with getting ready for the Weekender.

[Hesh Kadesh]

that's a misleading statement; it costs exactly the same. The option costs more but the net cost is the same, because -1 BS on a Barrage weapons isn't a meaningful penalty.

[Moonstalker]

that's a misleading statement; it costs exactly the same. The option costs more but the net cost is the same, because -1 BS on a Barrage weapons isn't a meaningful penalty.

 

I don't see how I was misleading.  And if you want to get into the net cost being the same... you are now paying the same price for a SA Rapier with frag/shatter that has lower Ld, lower BS (shatter shells aren't barrage, it kinda frakkin matters), and worse sv/T on the crew (I know, use the T of the gun vs shooting, etc).  And, if your argument is to be valid, why is the other blast weapon (the graviton cannon) priced exactly the same for both of them (leading to cheaper grav cannon rapiers for SA because of the aforementioned cheaper base price)?  Going by your logic, shouldn't it also be more expensive?

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

that's a misleading statement; it costs exactly the same. The option costs more but the net cost is the same, because -1 BS on a Barrage weapons isn't a meaningful penalty.

 

I don't see how I was misleading.  And if you want to get into the net cost being the same... you are now paying the same price for a SA Rapier with frag/shatter that has lower Ld, lower BS (shatter shells aren't barrage, it kinda frakkin matters), and worse sv/T on the crew (I know, use the T of the gun vs shooting, etc).  And, if your argument is to be valid, why is the other blast weapon (the graviton cannon) priced exactly the same for both of them (leading to cheaper grav cannon rapiers for SA because of the aforementioned cheaper base price)?  Going by your logic, shouldn't it also be more expensive?

 

Your idea was that because of the point upgrade costing more points, it therefore costs more points. And Barrage 4 is different than Large Blast 1. A failed Scatter and a roll of 7 or more will see it scatter off target. Let me direct you to multiple barrage, scatter, and how the barrage doesn't benefit from BS when it's out of LoS as well, for how I got my reasoning.

[Moonstalker]

I don't quite agree with your reasoning, for two points:

 

1. You will not always be shooting at units you cannot draw LoS to, so ballistic skill still matters.

2. Even if you don't have LoS, SA and LA both have cheap and easy access to nuncio voxii, meaning you have multiple ways to get LoS and still fire with full BS.  Indeed, it's extra cheap for SA, cause it just bloody comes with Lasrifle sections and Tactical Command sections.

 

Edit: But on the original point, I still don't feel that I was misleading.  I stated that the option itself cost more, and that the whole thing was inconsistent.  Even if the overall cost is still the same, it's still difficult to really understand: are you paying the same price for less (assuming frag/shatter are included with LA rapiers, meaning the SA are strictly inferior)?  Are you paying the same price for a little less of one thing and a little more of another (crappier gunners but shatter shells included)?  The books aren't as clear as they should be.