Sully ad Bellum Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Plus, you get to stick it to Eldar and 1-up them at their own Jetbike shenanigans game. Eldar still win. 36" Turboboost, 2D6" move in the assault phase regardless of whether charging, might-as-well-be-rending catapults and cannons.... SAIM-HANN, y'all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostmourne Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Lol agreed. But. It's need to be a Praetor ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Lol agreed. But. It's need to be a Praetor ;) Too bad you can't take a Praevian and just Castellax spam your way to victory :P I think a MotF would be better because you can give him a 2+/3++, rad grenades, and take a squad of thallax to trollolol the Eldar player's skimmers and Jetbikes (ignore jink from djinn sight/no infiltrators within 24"). Stick him in a flare shielded spartan for extra lulz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Plus, you get to stick it to Eldar and 1-up them at their own Jetbike shenanigans game. Eldar still win. 36" Turboboost, 2D6" move in the assault phase regardless of whether charging, might-as-well-be-rending catapults and cannons.... SAIM-HANN, y'all. O-O-OH YEAH! W-WELL...UH...AT LEAST WE CAN TAKE CULVERINS! H-HAH! SUCK IT XENOS! If he's in AA on foot, Give him the Nanyte Blaster and/or Void Shield Harness, Paragon Blade, Thunderhammer, Melta Bombs, Iron Halo. If you want to, give him a Jump Pack and a JP Command Squad for increased mobility. if you don't/can't at least but a Land Raider between him and the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 You can't really beat Eldar jetbikes at all. 100 pts gets you a super scoring unit with a 2+ Jink MEQ that can effectively teleport all over the battlefleid and Deep Strike to face less shooting phases after sitting out of LoS until the last turns. That is what makes them powerful, not necessarily the rest of their statline or weapons. They win the game while the expensive Aspect Warriors, ObSec T6 Wraiths, and Warithknights kill enemies. Welcome to poor game design, 101. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 You can't really beat Eldar jetbikes at all. 100 pts gets you a super scoring unit with a 2+ Jink MEQ that can effectively teleport all over the battlefleid and Deep Strike to face less shooting phases after sitting out of LoS until the last turns. That is what makes them powerful, not necessarily the rest of their statline or weapons. They win the game while the expensive Aspect Warriors, ObSec T6 Wraiths, and Warithknights kill enemies. Welcome to poor game design, 101. Hopefully the 7th ed-ing of their book changes that. The tears of the Eldar players will be delicious indeed when they're brought down to relative parity. But, we're here about potentially sinking as many points into a Preator, not so much comparing our jetbikes to the eldar ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 You can't really beat Eldar jetbikes at all. 100 pts gets you a super scoring unit with a 2+ Jink MEQ that can effectively teleport all over the battlefleid and Deep Strike to face less shooting phases after sitting out of LoS until the last turns. That is what makes them powerful, not necessarily the rest of their statline or weapons. They win the game while the expensive Aspect Warriors, ObSec T6 Wraiths, and Warithknights kill enemies. Welcome to poor game design, 101. That's why the Emperor invented the Sicaran tank. To ignoring jetbike shenanigans. You can't really beat Eldar jetbikes at all. 100 pts gets you a super scoring unit with a 2+ Jink MEQ that can effectively teleport all over the battlefleid and Deep Strike to face less shooting phases after sitting out of LoS until the last turns. That is what makes them powerful, not necessarily the rest of their statline or weapons. They win the game while the expensive Aspect Warriors, ObSec T6 Wraiths, and Warithknights kill enemies. Welcome to poor game design, 101. Hopefully the 7th ed-ing of their book changes that. The tears of the Eldar players will be delicious indeed when they're brought down to relative parity. But, we're here about potentially sinking as many points into a Preator, not so much comparing our jetbikes to the eldar ones. Comparing the size of our jetbikes are we? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully ad Bellum Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I would like to propose for consideration the Legion Command Squad, with two additional Chosen. Equip each of them with melta bombs (because armorbane), combat shields (because might-as-well-be-terminators-in-close-combat), and arm them all with power axes. For their chariot, let them ride into battle aboard a Land Raider Proteus with a twin-linked Heavy Bolter upgrade (because that's a Land Raider Phobos at a discount price, and you're not truly thug if you're not getting a bargain). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 You can't really beat Eldar jetbikes at all. 100 pts gets you a super scoring unit with a 2+ Jink MEQ that can effectively teleport all over the battlefleid and Deep Strike to face less shooting phases after sitting out of LoS until the last turns. That is what makes them powerful, not necessarily the rest of their statline or weapons. They win the game while the expensive Aspect Warriors, ObSec T6 Wraiths, and Warithknights kill enemies. Welcome to poor game design, 101. That's why the Emperor invented the Sicaran tank. To ignoring jetbike shenanigans. That's why Eldar player Deep Strikes them while his Fire Dragons in Wave Serpents or one of his three Wraithknights kill your Sicaran, especially if said Sicaran is immune to melta. They still have the ability to hide out of line of sight and/or range (if the Eldar player knows what he's doing, then you will never get near those bikes. Best counter is honestly Flamestorm Dread in a Dreadnought Drop Pod, because autohit S6 AP3 Ignores cover beats S8 AP4 Rend ignores jink. Of course, though, Eldar player deep strikes, and so GF Dreadnought. coming in first turn. Still, it was addressing the point that you're not really one upping Eldar Jetbikes, as Legion Jetbikes don't do the things that Eldar Jetbikes do that make them so good, so it was kind of valid. Jetseer Councils are now REALLY weak, especially as they've lost Hit & Run from the Baron. With respect as well, there's not much to talk about how to take a good combat character. It's pretty obvious; Paragon Blade with Combat Augment Array = guaranteed Instant Death and At Initiative AP2 Thunder Hammer; Concusses enemy Eternal Warriors, +1 attack to Paragon Blade Iron Halo; Best Invulnerable save possible for a Praetor Meltabombs; kills vehicles Master-crafted weapon; either ensures that the Paragon Blade hits at least once, which means that you're guaranteed the Instant Death, or that the Thunder Hammer causes enough hits to try and force Concussed via unsaved wound. YMMV. Nanyte Blaster; erases mooks Void Shield Harness; not really a resistance, rather it turns your Praetor into a firesponge forcing the enemy to waste an AT shot on you if they want to put bolt wounds into your unit. Possibly a decent use. Legion Relic; AP3 Rending Shieldbreaker can't really cope when most held shields in 30K are usually only on 2+ Save models. Other relics; useless for our purposes. Legion Tactic; Furious Charge makes you hit harder on the charge Auxiliary Units; Deredeo Dreadnought with Antomantic Pavise; 3++ Invulnerables Assault vehicle; usually recommend Spartan, but a Land Raider Phobos, Anvillus Dreadclaw or Kharybdis Assault Claw also work due to their second turn assault. Other Flyers despite the Assault Rule cannot allow an assault until the 3rd turn, and Ultramarines are not Sworn Brothers with Iron Warriors which would allow them to second turn assault with them should you take a Primary Detachment with Perturabo. So; Ultramarines (Furious Charge) Praetor; Master-crafted Paragon Blade, Thunder Hammer, Iron Halo, Meltabombs, Nanyte Blaster, Combat Augment Array, [maybe] Void Shield Harness. 305pts I would like to propose for consideration the Legion Command Squad, with two additional Chosen. Equip each of them with melta bombs (because armorbane), combat shields (because might-as-well-be-terminators-in-close-combat), and arm them all with power axes. For their chariot, let them ride into battle aboard a Land Raider Proteus with a twin-linked Heavy Bolter upgrade (because that's a Land Raider Phobos at a discount price, and you're not truly thug if you're not getting a bargain). Why the Proteus? It's not an assault vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully ad Bellum Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Why the Proteus? It's not an assault vehicle. No! I knew there had to be a catch, but I never expected it be quite so bad as that. *Sigh* Honestly, I suggested the Proteus simply because it is listed as one of two Dedicated Transport options for a Legion Command Squad, and it's cheaper than a Phobos, and it never occurred to me that it wouldn't be an assault vehicle. Who knew it was such a lemon!? No worries - with Pride of the Legion, you can select a Land Raider Phobos for their ride. Also, Hesh - PM, por favor, and explain to me more about how these Eldar jetbikes Deep Strike. You see, I've been running an all-jetbike Saim-Hann list (well...all jetbikes plus two Fire Prisms) for about a decade now, and I have never heard of such shenanigans. Deep Striking Shining Spears? Why, that would be even worse than the Spanish Inquisition. By all means, please PM me to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Why the Proteus? It's not an assault vehicle. No! I knew there had to be a catch, but I never expected it be quite so bad as that. *Sigh* Honestly, I suggested the Proteus simply because it is listed as one of two Dedicated Transport options for a Legion Command Squad, and it's cheaper than a Phobos, and it never occurred to me that it wouldn't be an assault vehicle. Who knew it was such a lemon!? No worries - with Pride of the Legion, you can select a Land Raider Phobos for their ride. Theres a reason why its 50 points cheaper :p The Proteus is mostly there as a shield for Shooty Units or to disrupt enemy Reserves with its exploratory augury web (or whatever its called). @Hesh: Paying 35+ points for the Combat Array for a Single six in the game doesn't seem all that worth it to me. Certainly, forcing an Instant Death Wound when you want it to is great but for 35 pts? then taking a test afterwards which may result in a wound? Not too sure. Ever since FW cleared up that its a single roll instead of ALL of them (brought on by a discussion on giving it to a Moritat for 100% guaranteed unit erasure), its more on the low-end in terms of usefulness out of all them. Granted, they're mostly there for use in conjunction with the Campaign system and FW have said thats their main purpose. Everything else is solid. Especially the VSH since it makes the preator +/- immune to small arms fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostmourne Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Ok so a few thjngs j have missed clearly. What's a combat augment array? And what's a nyante blaster? Where are these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Book 4 Relics. Will edit this post with their info after I eat unless someone does it before me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully ad Bellum Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Book 4 Relics. Will edit this post with their info after I eat unless someone does it before me. Alright, alright. Don't make a habit of it, though. Combat Augment Array (General Relic) - Once per game, at the beginning of your player turn character may count any dice roll as automatically rolling a 6; but, at the end of that player turn, it's various Toughness tests for you, with each failed test resulting in a wound with no saves and no FNP. Nanyte Blaster (General Relic) - 12" . . . St 5 . . . AP 2 . . . Assault 1, Fleshbane, Uncontrolled Replication (if a model's killed by the Nanyte Blaster, then on a 4+ you center a St5 AP2 large blast on the schwacked model's position; further casualties may trigger further Uncontrolled Replications, causing an infinite cascade of gray-ooze deathiness, doom, and destruction!!! Seriously, though - this could be one of the ways in which the world ends. Gladius Invictus (Ultramarines Relic) (this has been mentioned before in this thread) - St +1 . . . AP 3 . . . Melee, Rending, Duellist's Edge, Shield-mocker (no saves from any kind of carried shields, e.g., boarding shields, combat shields, storm shields, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostmourne Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Ah cool. I saw the Galdius on 1D4chan and that's not bad. Not great, but not bad. The other two are off the chain though!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Ah cool. I saw the Galdius on 1D4chan and that's not bad. Not great, but not bad. The other two are off the chain though!! Consider that the Augment Array is 35 points for a Once Per Game you get to choose when you roll a 6. I'm meh on it. I'd actually prefer the Warp Shunt Field: 3++ against Shooting. For every 6 rolled when saving against an enemy attack in direct Line Of Sight, the unit that fired the shot takes D6 S5 Ap- Hits. Same Pts as the Augment Array. Or The Phase Walker: Which essentially lets you teleport everywhere and only take dangerous terrain tests for every solid object (vehicles, terrain, etc.) you moved through in a Straight Line. Can't be used when in a Vehicle, Building or in Combat but it doesn't have a use limit. It counts as a Deepstrike so part of your movement phase but it says you can still run, shoot, etc (maybe meaning charge?) as normal. No Range Limit. 45 pts. This is mostly amazing for Moritats since it lets you instantly teleport to a target, blast it, if you survive the next turn, you can teleport away or at another target across the map, etc. Phase Walker doesn't work on a Squad only the equipped character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostmourne Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 That certainly is increds for a Moritat! May have to make that!! But the Combat Array would mean I could instant gib a Monstrous Creature for sure and get my arse some Points!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Why the Proteus? It's not an assault vehicle. No! I knew there had to be a catch, but I never expected it be quite so bad as that. *Sigh* Honestly, I suggested the Proteus simply because it is listed as one of two Dedicated Transport options for a Legion Command Squad, and it's cheaper than a Phobos, and it never occurred to me that it wouldn't be an assault vehicle. Who knew it was such a lemon!? No worries - with Pride of the Legion, you can select a Land Raider Phobos for their ride. Theres a reason why its 50 points cheaper The Proteus is mostly there as a shield for Shooty Units or to disrupt enemy Reserves with its exploratory augury web (or whatever its called). @Hesh: Paying 35+ points for the Combat Array for a Single six in the game doesn't seem all that worth it to me. Certainly, forcing an Instant Death Wound when you want it to is great but for 35 pts? then taking a test afterwards which may result in a wound? Not too sure. Ever since FW cleared up that its a single roll instead of ALL of them (brought on by a discussion on giving it to a Moritat for 100% guaranteed unit erasure), its more on the low-end in terms of usefulness out of all them. Granted, they're mostly there for use in conjunction with the Campaign system and FW have said thats their main purpose. Everything else is solid. Especially the VSH since it makes the preator +/- immune to small arms fire. That 6 could make the difference between winning a battle or not. In this instance, it's definitely worth it, however. +5 VP's for killing an MC? You'd need to have 2 Objectives to equal that. On +1 VP for slay the warllord, it is questionable; but whether a Rhino or 3ish tac marines are better usage is definitely YMMV. Me, to remove the randomness from the game, and to effectively guarantee an Instant Death hit, I'd reckon it's worth it. I rarely make pure beat stick characters, however, as I find that there is often always a bigger badboy out there; Swarmlord, Eternal Warriors, Primarchs, etc, which if I stack a load of points in one direction and then get beaten with that "eggs in one basket" approach, I'm out of other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Forgelord is a monster in cc. Art armour refractor field on bike with Mc paragon blade ,powerfist( this is free), volkite charger, digi weapons ,combat aug array ( for that 6 when u need it)You can't give a Forge Lord a paragon blade, and their servo-arms aren't power fists. Nor can they take digi-weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostmourne Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Ok so back on topic girls, What unit should I put him with? Command squad with power weapons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 In this scenario, yeah Command Squad with Power Axes/Swords and Combat Shields would be cool. Also helps that they give a Fearless Bubble. If you have Jump Packs, I'd give them all (including the Preator) a JP for mobility if you aren't shoving them into a Land Raider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostmourne Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Na i wont be going with Jump Packs, probably in a Land Raider i would imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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