A Question Concerning the Expeditionary Fleets

[Son of Carnelian]

So I understand the concept of the Expeditionary Fleets going out and conquering the galaxy in the Great Crusade. Obviously, right. But who scouts for them? Surely the fleets don't simply pick a spot on some Dark Age of Technology map and say "we should go here because humans used to be here!" Surely they have scout vessels, ships that go into the unknown and uncharted corners of the universe who pick out targets for these fleets? I have an idea that kinda revolves around this concept, but I have no idea if it exists in actuality. So, do the Expeditionary Fleets have scouting vessels that go first? Probably crewed by a small contingent of Astartes? 

[No Foes Remain]

I think there was mention in Horus Rising of the 63rd having scout ships that explored nearby systems and looked to see what was there.

[Daemon2027]

Well they have old maps and info of human settlements from before the long nights, I belive that's how they found Medusa, which was a legend on Mars.

 

They also used Rougue Traders to scout ahead, sometimes they had imperial escorts including Space Marines.

[Kol Saresk]

So I understand the concept of the Expeditionary Fleets going out and conquering the galaxy in the Great Crusade. Obviously, right. But who scouts for them? Surely the fleets don't simply pick a spot on some Dark Age of Technology map and say "we should go here because humans used to be here!" Surely they have scout vessels, ships that go into the unknown and uncharted corners of the universe who pick out targets for these fleets? I have an idea that kinda revolves around this concept, but I have no idea if it exists in actuality. So, do the Expeditionary Fleets have scouting vessels that go first? Probably crewed by a small contingent of Astartes?

It's a bit of both. The Great Crusade did just pick random spots. They also relied on scout ships and recon fleets(mentioned in the NL IA article) as well as any star charts and other astrological data they can get their hands on.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Scouting is basically what warp runners are for, which have 'minimal crew, armament and life support'. A mechanicum warp runner was the vessel which discovered Medusa, a near-mythical treasure trove of dark age of technology relics.

 

So I'd imagine you'd have a handful of warp runners scouting ahead of Expeditionary Fleets, which would communicate with the trailing fleet via astropath. However, I guess they would also have quite a high attrition rate, due to warp accidents & other dangers of void travel.

 

Plus I'd imagine Forge Worlds would also be pretty useful when they were discovered - potentially posessing reams of data on the surrounding systems.

 

One thing to remember is that the paths of the Expeditionary Fleets weren't particularly free form - they were really dictated by the flow of the warp - major warp routes were like currents, and it was increasingly difficult to navigate areas of the warp outside of these streams, so rather than requiring hordes of scouts to explore the tens of thousands of potential star systems each fleet could visit conventionally, you'd only need a handful. Hence why most surviving loyalists from the Dropsite Massacre ended up in the Cyclops Cluster.

[Daemon2027]

Yeah if you look at the map of the Galaxy in the forge world book some of the last fou d Primarchs were not far flung. Deliverance is hardly the furthest from Terra. Of course that may be a sparsly populated part of the Galaxy.

[Conn Eremon]

If I recall correctly, according to Forge World this was the dominant role of Rogue Trader Militants at this time.

[Daemon2027]

When I grow up in 28k years or so I want to be a rogue trader. And a blank. And a perpetual. I could make such a Mary Sue character.

[Olis]

If I recall correctly, according to Forge World this was the dominant role of Rogue Trader Militants at this time.

 

This is what I gather from the FW HH books. These individuals are sent into the void to discover lost human colonies or places of import for the Great Crusade, usually with their own little fleets in tow. An element of the Night Lords original Terran compliment (the 9th company iirc) was seconded to a Rogue Trader, who was a dethroned noble/king of Terra.

 

Edit - Grammar fail.

[Castiel]

They could also search for radio signals and other forms of detectable evidence of life and track these signs back to their source. I think there is some mention of something similar being used in Fear to Tread.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Sometimes expeditionary fleets would spend years and not come across anything, I think that Astarte forces may not always have been the tip of the expeditionary spear but would of been in close proximity to Imperial army scout vessels in the vicinity. Also it was a matter of logistics, vessels were not always in the right place at the right time so it would take months or even years for reinforcements to venture to active war zones. 

[The Red Thirst]

If I recall correctly, according to Forge World this was the dominant role of Rogue Trader Militants at this time.

Agree with Conn, its always been my impression that Rogue Traders played a big part in the Great Crusade and their descendants still use their families original Warrant of Trade (signed by the Emperor himself) in 40k 

[Olis]

 

If I recall correctly, according to Forge World this was the dominant role of Rogue Trader Militants at this time.

Agree with Conn, its always been my impression that Rogue Traders played a big part in the Great Crusade and their descendants still use their families original Warrant of Trade (signed by the Emperor himself) in 40k 

 

As evidenced in the Shira Calpurnia book Legacy. 

[Conn Eremon]

 

 

If I recall correctly, according to Forge World this was the dominant role of Rogue Trader Militants at this time.

Agree with Conn, its always been my impression that Rogue Traders played a big part in the Great Crusade and their descendants still use their families original Warrant of Trade (signed by the Emperor himself) in 40k

Which is why I just love them so much. If I infer correctly, the dynasties had these Writs to make sure that they were always well supplied and armed for their task, and that they had rights of passage everywhere in the Imperium because their task was to further the extreme edges of the Imperium.

 

My inference is that after the Heresy, with the Emperor down, the Dynasties used the language in the Writs to their own gain, twisting the intent to accommodate their own personal trade empires, using the Emperor's own signature as divine mandates. Which would mean that their purpose has never changed officially. They are still the recons and scouts of the Great Crusade. They have right of passage everywhere because they need to in order to explore unknown reaches. But they use it to establish connections and explore sites of interest. They have the right to maintain an army, because they need one out there in the black all alone. But they use it to protect their interests as corporate security. They were given access to the resources of the Imperium, because they needed to be well supplied for deep excursions far from aid. But they use it to establish trade agreements and monopolies. They are going far beyond what the Writs actually allow, but nobody knows or calls them out on it.

 

They have built literal dynasties that have lasted thousands of years off of a bluff.

[Kol Saresk]

So what you're saying is that they're better politicians than our politicians.

[ThatOneMarshal]

When I grow up in 28k years or so I want to be a rogue trader. And a blank. And a perpetual. I could make such a Mary Sue character.

I wouldn't choose what I wanted to be I would have Matt ward write my character for me. I wonder what his characters are like in RPGs?

 

I've been rereading horus rising and it said somewhere that horuses expeditionary fleet went through a warp hole or soemthing and ended up at the planet. They said something about how that happens sometimes. I would imagine since it's the imperium they just choose a place on the map and go their.

[Millicant]

Conn I love your write up on Rogue Traders. That's one of the things I always loved about them too.

[Daemon2027]

 

 

If I recall correctly, according to Forge World this was the dominant role of Rogue Trader Militants at this time.

Agree with Conn, its always been my impression that Rogue Traders played a big part in the Great Crusade and their descendants still use their families original Warrant of Trade (signed by the Emperor himself) in 40k

Which is why I just love them so much. If I infer correctly, the dynasties had these Writs to make sure that they were always well supplied and armed for their task, and that they had rights of passage everywhere in the Imperium because their task was to further the extreme edges of the Imperium.

My inference is that after the Heresy, with the Emperor down, the Dynasties used the language in the Writs to their own gain, twisting the intent to accommodate their own personal trade empires, using the Emperor's own signature as divine mandates. Which would mean that their purpose has never changed officially. They are still the recons and scouts of the Great Crusade. They have right of passage everywhere because they need to in order to explore unknown reaches. But they use it to establish connections and explore sites of interest. They have the right to maintain an army, because they need one out there in the black all alone. But they use it to protect their interests as corporate security. They were given access to the resources of the Imperium, because they needed to be well supplied for deep excursions far from aid. But they use it to establish trade agreements and monopolies. They are going far beyond what the Writs actually allow, but nobody knows or calls them out on it.

They have built literal dynasties that have lasted thousands of years off of a bluff.

They sort of remind me of the Russian Cossacks during the years of the expansion of the Russian empire. Frontiersmen pushing the boundaries of the Empier forward, exploring new lands, but acting to develop their own interests, setting up trading posts that would ultimately serve them.

[Son of Carnelian]

So it seems like Rogue Traders are probably the most likely answer? Gotcha. Thanks gang! I will put this information to good use.

[Fire Golem]

I wonder if we'll get rules for Rogue Traders in the 'Agents of the Imperium' section thingy.

[Atia]

I wonder if we'll get rules for Rogue Traders in the 'Agents of the Imperium' section thingy.

it is mentioned in Conquest that the Solar Auxilia Legate Commanders are sometimes Rogue Traders too :)