A crazy idea that just might work? Astral Claws primogenitor

[Raktra]

Calenhad currently has no attacks ;)

[depthcharge12]

Calenhad currently has no attacks ;)

*facepalm*

 

He has four, I'll go change it haha.

 

Are people more interested in the fluff portion of this or the models that will come as a result? I don't want to bore anyone to death lol

[blackoption]

The theory for both characters is sound.  I'd wait to make any further changes until after the play testing. 

 

But now I am in a bit of a conundrum.  While I am a fan of the 2nd legion, I kinda want the Vorpal Claws to win.

[Athrawes]

The theory for both characters is sound.  I'd wait to make any further changes until after the play testing. 

 

But now I am in a bit of a conundrum.  While I am a fan of the 2nd legion, I kinda want the Vorpal Claws to win.

 

The II Legion dies, the Lightning Bearers are exterminated and forgotten to history... how on earth is that a loss for the Dark Angels?

[depthcharge12]

 

 

The theory for both characters is sound. I'd wait to make any further changes until after the play testing.

 

But now I am in a bit of a conundrum. While I am a fan of the 2nd legion, I kinda want the Vorpal Claws to win.

The II Legion dies, the Lightning Bearers are exterminated and forgotten to history... how on earth is that a loss for the Dark Angels?

Lol I think he's talking about Calenhad, due to his hubris, loses Katarius and becomes obsessive in his own "Hunt".

 

But then again, this is grim dark. I like a Machiavellian guy who pursues his goals at cost to all others, it's the definition of a "black knight."

[1ncarnadine]

Can anyone shoot my a few ideas as toward how I should give rules for Calenhad?

 

This is what I have so far -

 

Ser Calenhad, Strike Commander of the "Vorpal Claws" Chapter, Dreadwing

 

Points: 175

WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W4 A4 I6 LD10 SV2+

 

Wargear:

Indomitus armor

Iron halo

Lion's claw*

Digital weapons

Tartarus pattern cannonade**

 

 

*Lion's claw

S: user AP2 Ghost razor, shred

 

**Tartarus pattern cannonade

This weapon was created by a lesser known Forgeworld for the first legion upon rediscovery to honor their reuniting with Terra. The cannonade uses a rotary loading system to feed low yield plasma cells into the firing chamber.

 

Though not as strong or powerful as a standard issue plasma gun, it brings less risk and converts excess energy into a blinding light, dazzling enemies that it does not kill. This weapon, though experimental, found much use in the hands of [name here] for regular boarding duties and zone mortalis situations.

 

Range: template S5 AP3 blind

 

That points cost seems way too low to me. I6 is already pretty crazy (in TDA, strikes as fast as Horus and Alpharius?), with the only non-Primarch with flat I6 in 30k being Garviel Loken (Sigi and Eidolon get bonuses to reach I6 too I think?), who also comes in at 175 points. But Loken doesn't have digi-lasers, W4, or a blinding AP3 heavy flamer. Plus he has a disappointing 3+ regular save. Maybe like 215 at minimum

 

Another comparison: Regular Praetor with TDA, dig-lasers, halo, and I'll equate the claw to a Paragon Blade (Shred/ghost razors vs +1S/Murderous Strike) = 180 already. Not even regarding the stat-line difference.

[blackoption]

Hmm... I'd recommend shying away from having an overly expensive character.  Sigismund is the upper limit in capability.  If anything, I'd par Calenhad down to Loken/Sevatar level at highest.  When I get the chance, I'll pull out my books and do some comparisons.  Though for some reason I can see Calenhad being an equivalent to Kyr Valen (at 195 pts if I remember correctly). 

 

On a fluff perspective... I had an idea.  I'd recommend making the Vorpal Claws Terran members of the Dark Angels legion.  First off, it would explain why they have such a poor relationship with the Lightning Bearers, especially if they have fought along side some missions with them and it went badly.  Second, it allows for the Chapter to be "lost" by the Legion in a manner that the Lion will not care about (which adds to Astellan's paranoia about the Lion), Third... I believe black looks better than green for the Dark Angels.

[depthcharge12]

 

Can anyone shoot my a few ideas as toward how I should give rules for Calenhad?

This is what I have so far -

Ser Calenhad, Strike Commander of the "Vorpal Claws" Chapter, Dreadwing

Points: 175

WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W4 A4 I6 LD10 SV2+

Wargear:

Indomitus armor

Iron halo

Lion's claw*

Digital weapons

Tartarus pattern cannonade**

*Lion's claw

S: user AP2 Ghost razor, shred

**Tartarus pattern cannonade

This weapon was created by a lesser known Forgeworld for the first legion upon rediscovery to honor their reuniting with Terra. The cannonade uses a rotary loading system to feed low yield plasma cells into the firing chamber.

Though not as strong or powerful as a standard issue plasma gun, it brings less risk and converts excess energy into a blinding light, dazzling enemies that it does not kill. This weapon, though experimental, found much use in the hands of [name here] for regular boarding duties and zone mortalis situations.

Range: template S5 AP3 blind

 

 

That points cost seems way too low to me. I6 is already pretty crazy (in TDA, strikes as fast as Horus and Alpharius?), with the only non-Primarch with I6 in 30k being Garviel Loken, who also comes in at 175 points. But Loken doesn't have digi-lasers, W4, or a blinding AP3 heavy flamer. Plus he has a disappointing 3+ regular save. Maybe like 215 at minimum

 

Another comparison: Regular Praetor with TDA, dig-lasers, halo, and I'll equate the claw to a Paragon Blade (Shred/ghost razors vs +1S/Murderous Strike) = 180 already. Not even regarding the stat-line difference.

You make a good point, I thought for a second that regular praetors were I6 for a second, so it would make sense to tone it down. I think with I5 and at 185 points it would be quite balanced. He will more than likely die to a regular praetor with a paragon blade because of the Id capability.

 

Iron halo is redundant on your TDA praetor as he can take cataphractii for the 4++, I just did it mainly for how the model looks. I will concede the point that he would be able to overwatch with his flamer though as he's in Indomitus pattern.

 

Putting him in the 200 points range feels like he would have to contend with beasts like Pollux, Siggy, or a Salamander praetor...which, let's be honest, he'd have no chance :P

[blackoption]

200 pts also includes the Harrowmaster from the Alpha Legion....  Though in that case, it is more about what that commander brings to the army. 

[Athrawes]

I think the 200 point range is probably a good choice. Raiden is priced at 230 only because of his psychic mastery level which for balance tacks on about 45 points. If you look at his stat-line, abilities and army rules, he is a 185-195 point character. 

 

I agree that characters shouldn't really approach Sigismund price since he is rightly the top dog, and his rules and price reflect this. My problem is that there aren't really any strong psyker characters yet to compare points cost with, so I made a chapter master level character (195pts) and added the requisite mastery levels which bumped him up close to Sigismund's points.

[depthcharge12]

I think the 200 point range is probably a good choice. Raiden is priced at 230 only because of his psychic mastery level. If you look at his stat-line, abilities and army rules, he is a 185-195 point character.

 

I was originally planning 215 because of some army buffs, but MLs are like 20 points each, making him a 170 point character.

 

I was originally planning a buff with Blackoption, but thought it might go better on the paladin character instead. The rule allowed one squad (terminator, breacher, or vet) to take a buff for an extra 25 points. This gave them +1 WS, deep strike, and could use Calenhad's leadership for any morale/pinning tests as long as he was alive and on the board.

 

I think if he was able to give this buff he should be pointed for 215 even though the upgrade costs points.

 

Should he receive any other rules? He just seems like a vanilla beatstick with nice weapons at this point.

[1ncarnadine]

You make a good point, I thought for a second that regular praetors were I6 for a second, so it would make sense to tone it down. I think with I5 and at 185 points it would be quite balanced. He will more than likely die to a regular praetor with a paragon blade because of the Id capability.

Iron halo is redundant on your TDA praetor as he can take cataphractii for the 4++, I just did it mainly for how the model looks. I will concede the point that he would be able to overwatch with his flamer though as he's in Indomitus pattern.

Putting him in the 200 points range feels like he would have to contend with beasts like Pollux, Siggy, or a Salamander praetor...which, let's be honest, he'd have no chance

Yeah, not having Slow and Purposeful is why the Iron Halo is an advantage and costs more points. Combine that with a blinding flamer on overwatch and... yeah. Compare to the (admittedly way overcosted) Black Helm relic for IW that gives S5 AP3 overwatch for 40 pts, although way more shots vs Blind? Anyway 200+ points was more a recommendation for the I6 statline. With I5 he's directly comparable to Kyr Vhalen, who has tons of tricks for only 195, although some are of very debatable value, like FnP 6+ or the servo arm. 185-190 seems alright

You going with a cool custom or non-random WL trait or keeping it random? Granted, do we really know what the Dreadwing specialize in yet? Is it heavy weapons like the Star Phantoms? Are you keeping the Maelstrom Warder banner on the Lufgt model? You could maybe give him a Cognis Signum antenna/array in its place and maybe a WL trait that lets him shoot and use the +1BS buff or something

[blackoption]

I really like the idea of the fixed Warlord trait.  Its something I overlooked. Considering his background as a Zone Mortalis specialist... I'd suggest Warlord Trait 1: Tip of the Spear (Warlord counts as scoring unit/has objective secured) or Trait 4: Teleport Assault Veteran (Warlord and his unit do not scatter when deep striking).  I'm pulling from the Attacker Warlord Traits from the Boarding mission rule set in Book 3 HH Extermination on page 185.

 

From Unremembered Empire, the Dreadwing seemed to be the Zone Mortalis/Boarding Specialists in the Dark Angels legion. Rules wise, the Dreadwing has received just as much love as the rest of the 1st legion.....  so they can get stubborn or furious charge for the time being.

[Athrawes]

 

I think the 200 point range is probably a good choice. Raiden is priced at 230 only because of his psychic mastery level. If you look at his stat-line, abilities and army rules, he is a 185-195 point character.

I was originally planning 215 because of some army buffs, but MLs are like 20 points each, making him a 170 point character.

 

 

 

 

Very True, however Lightning Bearers Purchase Mastery Levels (through Celestial Lore) for 15 points, not 20. It's meant to represent psychic powers being more common. The trade off of course is that normal psykers pay 20 points a level and have access to all psychic powers. LB only have access to divination.

[depthcharge12]

 

You make a good point, I thought for a second that regular praetors were I6 for a second, so it would make sense to tone it down. I think with I5 and at 185 points it would be quite balanced. He will more than likely die to a regular praetor with a paragon blade because of the Id capability.

Iron halo is redundant on your TDA praetor as he can take cataphractii for the 4++, I just did it mainly for how the model looks. I will concede the point that he would be able to overwatch with his flamer though as he's in Indomitus pattern.

Putting him in the 200 points range feels like he would have to contend with beasts like Pollux, Siggy, or a Salamander praetor...which, let's be honest, he'd have no chance :P

 

 

Yeah, not having Slow and Purposeful is why the Iron Halo is an advantage and costs more points. Combine that with a blinding flamer on overwatch and... yeah. Compare to the (admittedly way overcosted) Black Helm relic for IW that gives S5 AP3 overwatch for 40 pts, although way more shots vs Blind? Anyway 200+ points was more a recommendation for the I6 statline. With I5 he's directly comparable to Kyr Vhalen, who has tons of tricks for only 195, although some are of very debatable value, like FnP 6+ or the servo arm. 185-190 seems alright

 

You going with a cool custom or non-random WL trait or keeping it random? Granted, do we really know what the Dreadwing specialize in yet? Is it heavy weapons like the Star Phantoms? Are you keeping the Maelstrom Warder banner on the Lufgt model? You could maybe

give him a Cognis Signum antenna/array in its place and maybe a WL trait that lets him shoot and use the +1BS buff or something

Yeah I too like that idea now of a fixed warlord trait.

 

The Dreadwing, I assume, are similar to their later incarnation as Star Phantoms - i.e. A lust for heavy weapon destruction, collateral damage, and void warfare.

 

To carry on a theme, the Star Phantoms lose their home planet for mysterious reasons. However, they get the rights to the Astral Claw's domain after Badab...

[depthcharge12]

So in trying to build a stat line for a paladin for my Vorpal Claws, however I'm trying to figure out how to balance him.

 

I want to give him WS7, yet I would hate to seem like I'm stacking my deck so to speak. Here's what I have so far, he's also loosely based around the FW AC character Corinn Sumatris:

 

 

Ser Lucan Gwynbliedd, paladin of the Vorpal Claws

 

Points: 155/TBD

 

WS7 BS4 S4 T4 W3 A4 I5 LD9 SV3+

 

Wargear:

Power armor

Refractor field

Auric Fang*

Volkite charger

Frag and krak grenades

 

*Auric Fang

S:+2 Ap- Biting edge**, two handed

This large broadsword wielded by Ser Lucan was originally a hand crafted piece from the forges of Mars before Lucan used it to kill the now extinct apex feline predator on Damaetus II. The teeth of said beast killed an entire demi squad of 1st legionaries and even shredded through Lucan's artificer armor before he split it asunder. The teeth on his broadsword caught up within the beast and broke, though Lucan did not leave without his prize. Rather than get his armor fixed, he pulled out all of the feline's teeth and commissioned a tech priest to forge him a new sword that would shred armor and never grow dull, using the beast's teeth as the cutting edge.

 

**Biting edge

All unsaved wounds caused by this weapon are taken at -2 to the opponent's armor save, though invulnerable saves may be taken as normal. I.e. A 3+ becomes a 5+, and a 2+ save becomes a 4+.

 

For the points I broke it down as such-

 

+50 for centurion

+35 for champion upgrade (-1 BS, +1 additional WS)

+25 for a paragon blade equivalent

+10 for volkite charger

+15 for refractor field

+20 points for being a special snowflake

 

Total: 155

 

What are your thoughts on him? I tried using the ye olde chainaxe rule for his weapon.

[helterskelter]

Have had a really good meander through this thread, pretty damn cool! That blade, that toothy blade, he seems well balanced does Lucan, just the blade almost seems too brutal, as no one would get an invulnerable save unless they had - armour save to begin with or being t3. Its on the cusp. The correct side of the cusp, id like to see a few playtests maybe

[depthcharge12]

Have had a really good meander through this thread, pretty damn cool! That blade, that toothy blade, he seems well balanced does Lucan, just the blade almost seems too brutal, as no one would get an invulnerable save unless they had - armour save to begin with or being t3. Its on the cusp. The correct side of the cusp, id like to see a few playtests maybe

I did it so that if anyone had a storm shield, a dragonscale shield, or some other psychic inv buff, then it would be less of an issue. Maybe make it so it only reduces an armor save by -1?

 

I just like how deadly he can be, however he is a glass hammer with 3+/5++. I wanted to give him a "preternatural reflexes rule" to give him a +1 inv in cc if his weapon skill was higher than the opponent's but just wanted to try this out first.

 

I'm already modeling him too...so you shall see him in the next few days ;)

[blackoption]

If the blade turns out to be too brutal, then drop the armor penalty to a -1 instead of a negative -2.  But play test it first.  As it is, it will tear apart Solar Auxilia and the Thallax legions of the Mechanicum. 

[depthcharge12]

Thanks guys, I'll definitely run it through some play testing. I've done some DiceHammer too and he does really well, but usually get slaughtered.

 

I forgot to add rage to the blade's special rule too to represent the size of the blade getting more hits.

 

As for rules too I've come up with this:

 

Apathetic-

Lucan is self absorbed and cares little for leadership or those under him, he lives only to seek out the best fighters his enemy has to offer to test his mettle. Lucian's leadership value may never be used in the squad he joins and can never be the warlord in a Dark Angels army. He must always accept and issue challenges whenever possible. He must reroll failed heroic interventions (to represent his arrogance of fighting champions over another's honor).

[blackoption]

I'm not liking the Apathetic rule.  All Paladin's have ideals they are suppose to live up to.  As a champion, he has to accept challenges and he gets to reroll failed heroic interventions as it is.  Now, if he were a Justicar or Murder Knight, that would fit.

 

how about this version of the rule (that provides the same basic effect)

 

Tunnel Vision-

Lucan's devotion to his commander's cause is total and complete. As a result, he tends to ignore changing conditions on the battle field, focusing only on following his role on the battlefield. As a result, his leadership value cannot be used in the squad he joins and cannot be the Warlord. 

[Slips]

I got serious Sigismund vibes from him. So far so good though. Would offer more input but im on the bus.

 

 

Edit: By the way, why is he equipped with Power Armor if the Fluff Bubble for his sword says hes wearing Artificer?

[depthcharge12]

I got serious Sigismund vibes from him. So far so good though. Would offer more input but im on the bus.

 

 

Edit: By the way, why is he equipped with Power Armor if the Fluff Bubble for his sword says hes wearing Artificer?

Lol it was because it *was* artificer armor! but then got shredded down to power armor levels. He did get repairs but, instead of getting a new suit of artificer armor, he asked for a better weapon. Tech priests don't just hand out nice gear like candy now :P

 

He's definitely a good fighter, but nowhere near people like Alajos or Corswain, let alone Siggy haha

[depthcharge12]

A sneak peak of Ser Lucan

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/treacyjohn2/8a086ca3b48eea28827b9d116f460d67_zpsgwckhinm.jpg

[Raktra]

Ha, Lucan sounds/plays like a less rebellious version of Dorran Kldier. I like it.