Starting Out 3: Sicarian Infiltrators and Ruststalkers

[Kilofix]

On assembling Sicarans though - boy are they fragile.

 

I'm not even sure how I'm going to carry them around.

[jeffersonian000]

On assembling Sicarans though - boy are they fragile.

 

I'm not even sure how I'm going to carry them around.

Carefully.

 

SJ

[heron]

So, after reading this thread a few times I am starting to narrow down what to do with the single box of Sicarians I purchased. I am going to be using them in a recon group- mostly Rangers, a few dragoons and Onagers, one squad of vanguard. They will not be the primary detachment, but will be supporting Sisters or Knights. Given that, and given that I am only going with one min. squad, I am now set on a group of Infiltrators, but am still stuck on what to arm them with. It seems that the power swords are best against MEQ (which are certainly prevalent in my area), but for the next six months they will mostly be seeing action in a campaign fighting against CSM, Necrons, Daemons and other xenos. Are tasers the way to go in this instance?

[Marshal Ommadon]

I'm playing an 1850 point game tomorrow and I have my Infiltrators equipped with Taser Goads and the Blaster Pistols.  My reasoning for trying this is to try to achieve a "wall of dice."  I am taking a 6 man squad with the Princeps as my Warlord.  It's also important to note that this unit is also a part of my Battle Maniple formation.  I believe that when taken this way the Taser Goads and Blaster Pistols become much more viable and here is why.  The lowly Blaster Pistol is S2 but it has Shred to help reroll those failed To Wound rolls plus the unit has Preferred Enemy due to the Warlord being the Princeps and part of the Battle Maniple formation.  Granted the Pistols only have a 12" range but I feel that this set-up can put some hurt on a unit trying to assault my Infiltrators.  Each Pistol has 5 shots and in my squad that's 30 Pistol shots rerolling 1s To Hit and any fail To Wound roll.  I don't believe in Mathhammer but that has to be pretty good no?

 

Now in CC with the Taser Goads, because we took the Taser Goads and Pistols, we now have +1 attack for 2 CC weapons giving us 25 attacks (2 base +1 for two weapons +1 for charge) on the charge (including the Princeps who has 3 base attacks) rerolling 1s To Hit and To Wound.  Now that's not including any Doctrina you are using nor is it taking into account the fact that any 6s To Hit gives you 2 extra hits.  Again I can see this all adding up to the potential to give your enemy a  large amount of saves and he's bound to fail some of them.

 

I'm also giving my Princeps the Power Taser so that when my opponent fails any saves from the Princeps he has to take an Initiative test or the model is removed from play no saves of any kind.

[Vel'Cona]

No doubt, your reasoning is sound. I think there's an argument to be made for both weapon choices on Infiltrators, but it really depends on whether you need to slaughter MEQ or want to have flexibility for taking on armor and/or massed infantry. Both ranged weapons are a bit lackluster, but they're intended to augment the charge rather than be the focus of the unit. In that respect, either can work.

I think at this point Infiltrators are the stronger choice in general since they can be so sneaky, but against a lot of opponents it will still be difficult to get the most out of them because of large base/T3. For those going Ruststalkers, I think the only two answers are:

a. Big squads

b. Allied transports

In either case, I'm interested to see how the feedback comes down for these units now that they're ready for table time.

[munocat]

If I am running a landraider, then I will take rusttakers, they make a great back field melee team too.

 

I made the mistake of putting power swords on my infiltrators, I was thinking it was better to have all ap3 attacks, but now with the changes to eldar wk's, I want the tasers, because 6's always wound, regardless of toughness. i will swap the weapons out.

[Brother Amarel]

Even in the best situations for the standard weaponry (Power Swords and Carbines), it doesn't do much better (averagely) than the Tasers and Pistols, and there's not many cases where it's better.

[munocat]

Even in the best situations for the standard weaponry (Power Swords and Carbines), it doesn't do much better (averagely) than the Tasers and Pistols, and there's not many cases where it's better.

Only benefit is the wound on 6's with 2 more wounds, that will be awesome against mc etc.

[Kilofix]

If I am running a landraider, then I will take rusttakers, they make a great back field melee team too.

I made the mistake of putting power swords on my infiltrators, I was thinking it was better to have all ap3 attacks, but now with the changes to eldar wk's, I want the tasers, because 6's always wound, regardless of toughness. i will swap the weapons out.

On a roll of 6 TO HIT, you get 2 additional HITS.

 

Not Wounds.

 

But the +2 Str does help to Wound.

[munocat]

 

If I am running a landraider, then I will take rusttakers, they make a great back field melee team too.

I made the mistake of putting power swords on my infiltrators, I was thinking it was better to have all ap3 attacks, but now with the changes to eldar wk's, I want the tasers, because 6's always wound, regardless of toughness. i will swap the weapons out.

On a roll of 6 TO HIT, you get 2 additional HITS.

Not Wounds.

But the +2 Str does help to Wound.

I just read that, I was confused with the rusttakers, they always wound on a six regardless off toughness

[Vel'Cona]

I keep leaning back and forth on the Infiltrator equip. Mine should be coming in today and I really can't decide between the two options. I suppose what it'll come down to is what I see myself fighting more. The ability to take out 6-7 MEQ models on the charge is pretty awesome, but at the same time the Tasers are only slightly less killy and they're useful against armored vehicles and models with ridiculous Toughness. And I do absolutely LOVE the Taser rule. Hmm . . .

[Kilofix]

Has anyone actually tried running Infils or Rusts at minimum 5-man size? If yes, how did that work out?

[heron]

Has anyone actually tried running Infils or Rusts at minimum 5-man size? If yes, how did that work out?

I will let you know in a few days- trying a 5 man taser squad this weekend against either Nids or Blood Angels

[ronin_cse]

 

Has anyone actually tried running Infils or Rusts at minimum 5-man size? If yes, how did that work out?

I will let you know in a few days- trying a 5 man taser squad this weekend against either Nids or Blood Angels

 

 

I'll be doing the same this weekend for a local tournament. Hopefully they do well!

[Emperor's Furor]

I need to add 500 points to my list below, I was going to add three onagers and three dragoons but they'll take sometime to buy so I was thinking of adding one or two of these units as they take up points quite a bit for not as much money, which do you think would help with this list?

 

 

Skitarii Vanguard (10) -  Omnispex / (3) Plasma Caliver / Power Sword / Phosphor blast pistol / Pater Radium / Refractor field / Digital weapons - 255

 

Skitarii Rangers (10) -  Omnispex / (3) Arc rifle / Arc maul / Arc pistol / Refractor field / Arkhan's Divinator- 220

 

Skitarii Rangers (5) -  Omnispex / (2) Transuranic arequbus / Taser Goad / Radium pistol / Refractor field - 150

 

Knight Paladin - 375

 

Total 1000

[ronin_cse]

 

I need to add 500 points to my list below, I was going to add three onagers and three dragoons but they'll take sometime to buy so I was thinking of adding one or two of these units as they take up points quite a bit for not as much money, which do you think would help with this list?

 

 

Skitarii Vanguard (10) -  Omnispex / (3) Plasma Caliver / Power Sword / Phosphor blast pistol / Pater Radium / Refractor field / Digital weapons - 255

 

Skitarii Rangers (10) -  Omnispex / (3) Arc rifle / Arc maul / Arc pistol / Refractor field / Arkhan's Divinator- 220

 

Skitarii Rangers (5) -  Omnispex / (2) Transuranic arequbus / Taser Goad / Radium pistol / Refractor field - 150

 

Knight Paladin - 375

 

Total 1000

 

 

As much as I want to use the Ruststalkers, because they look awesome, I would probably say some Infiltrators. Sadly I think the ruststalkers won't be very effective without more threats on the table.

 

If you need more points maybe bump up that 5 man ranger squad to 10? Or take another 5 man squad. Also why give the Alpha in that squad a Taser Goad and Pistol? I feel like with the sniper rifles he's never going to be close enough to anything to get much use out of it. Also to eat up more points you could go with conversions fields, I know they might blind you but with the re-roll it's unlikely.

[Marshal Ommadon]

I gave my Alphas Tasers and Pistols because nothing in my games can last an entire game and not be assaulted.  I'd rather sacrifice just one gun in my 10 man squad to have any kind of CC capability even if its just a Taser.

 

If I was going 5 man squads on the other hand I wouldn't give my Alphas the Taser and Pistol, I'd leave them vanilla.

[Emperor's Furor]

Hmm I'm doubting getting any now. Tend to play against a lot of Eldar and with the amount of strength 6 weapons they can bring to bare now I'm pretty sure they'll be points down the drain, single small squad of bikers with scatter lasers can own them.

[Dusktiger]

yes, but that's going to be the case with all of the infantry in the army, as it's a T3 force.  same with guard.  At the very least, i would take the minimum requirements for a Battle Maniple formation so you can field that and get the increased perks it offers.  which means having to take one of each.

 

mine i went with 1 box each, and made my ruststalkers with dual Transonic Blades, and the Princeps with the additional Chordclaw and Dataspike.  my Infiltrators i did with default gear, and gave the Princeps Phosphoenix, and an Infoslave Skull.

 

@Kilofix;  i did try them friday night, but against probably the worst match up for testing; a Daemonkin list that had a Skull Cannon wiping out my squads one a turn, and squads of bloodletters popping up in pairs across the table.  Had i gone with Taser Goads instead, i probably could have kept him locked in combat and kept that chariot away, but as it was, i'd try to run with Our Weapons Are Useless Rule, and he'd catch me on the sweeping advance and wipe the unit out. 

[Kilofix]

yes, but that's going to be the case with all of the infantry in the army, as it's a T3 force.  same with guard.  At the very least, i would take the minimum requirements for a Battle Maniple formation so you can field that and get the increased perks it offers.  which means having to take one of each.

 

mine i went with 1 box each, and made my ruststalkers with dual Transonic Blades, and the Princeps with the additional Chordclaw and Dataspike.  my Infiltrators i did with default gear, and gave the Princeps Phosphoenix, and an Infoslave Skull.

 

@Kilofix;  i did try them friday night, but against probably the worst match up for testing; a Daemonkin list that had a Skull Cannon wiping out my squads one a turn, and squads of bloodletters popping up in pairs across the table.  Had i gone with Taser Goads instead, i probably could have kept him locked in combat and kept that chariot away, but as it was, i'd try to run with Our Weapons Are Useless Rule, and he'd catch me on the sweeping advance and wipe the unit out.

 

Huh yeah, Skull Cannon will ID them and Ignores Cover but you should still have had the 4+ save. With Sicarans speed, could you not close with the enemy in time? I would have thought any of the Sicarans weapons would have been effective against Daemons in CC - Transonics, PS, Tazers...

[Dusktiger]

not being familiar with it, i thought to close the gap quickly and try to assault first and tie it up, but instead of holding to that idea, i tried to break and go after a better target i could have wiped in one round instead.  but he rolled 1 higher on the init. check and wiped the infiltrators out.  then he had it charge a unit of ruststalkers after they wiped out his possessed, and since they couldn't hurt it with the transonic blades, i thought to break and use them on something else; again, he beat my roll by 3, wiped the squad out.  we called after that.

 

conversely, i did get first blood with my skitarii against a daemonkin list that was mainly daemons.  so i was happy with that

[Emperor's Furor]

Yeah but what I meant was whilst taking out normal troops with str 6 weapons is no problem since they have 1 wound anyway, Sicarians will die after taking one wound from a str 6 weapon so that extra wound means nothing and they are a lot more expensive. 3 bikes with 3 scatter lasers which cost less than 100 points can kill 10 them with no problem but the sicarians would cost over 200 points then as well.

[Aethernitas]

Yeah but what I meant was whilst taking out normal troops with str 6 weapons is no problem since they have 1 wound anyway, Sicarians will die after taking one wound from a str 6 weapon so that extra wound means nothing and they are a lot more expensive. 3 bikes with 3 scatter lasers which cost less than 100 points can kill 10 them with no problem but the sicarians would cost over 200 points then as well.

 

Just to be clear - in your example you mean the 3 scatterbikes would kill the 10 man unit over the course of a few turns, right? I so I totally agree. The bikes can kite them (even if they have to drop the occasional shooting phase to get some distance)

 

In one round 3 scatterbikes would kill an average of 3,34 Sicarians so they would earn their points back in just one round.

[Emperor's Furor]

Yes.

 

Alternatively they could take Shruiken Cannons which can get AP2 on a roll of 6 and ignore their armour as well but they lose a shot over the scatter laser though. The way my friends play I can expect to face several small units of bikers for sure, they've already told me they'll be getting some, especially the dark eldar player as he uses eldar as allies a lot and he makes use of Dark Eldar bikes and small units in venoms that basically fly around shooting things.

[Vash]

I keep leaning back and forth on the Infiltrator equip. Mine should be coming in today and I really can't decide between the two options. I suppose what it'll come down to is what I see myself fighting more. The ability to take out 6-7 MEQ models on the charge is pretty awesome, but at the same time the Tasers are only slightly less killy and they're useful against armored vehicles and models with ridiculous Toughness. And I do absolutely LOVE the Taser rule. Hmm . . .

Factor in what you usually fight.

And then you need to have a deep look at your own army list and deduct what you really need.

For me, I had the same problem, go with tasers or power weapons on the infiltrators. But looking over my list, I saw that I had nothing that was really dedicated against hordes/large enemy units. I did how ever have a lot of anti 3+ weapons. Mostly fire power, but non the less, the 3+ I could deal with other units.

But I must say, the stub carbine is tempting. 3 shots each. With their high movement, they could herras pretty good before getting into a fist fight.