Thousand Sons Pre-Heresy color scheme

[Tenebris]

Greetings, here is what I have to ask. I am considering to paint the rest of my CSM army in the Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons color scheme. There are several interpretations of this color scheme which is the reason I am wondering how to approach it in the first place. 

 

The official GW art is a conflicting source of material. In the Visions of Heresy the Thousand Sons have a blood red armor with predominantly shining gold trim while on some other pictures in the same book there are Thousand Sons with a carmine (dark red) armor with the bone/ivory trim. To add to the confusion the old Index Astartes depicts the TS with the blood red armor and the ivory trim, the current TS scheme is the regal blue with brass while the art on the A Thousand Sons novel depicts the TS as a combination of the above but with predominantly ivory trim, while more detail HH art shows them with only scarce bone inserts and lots of gold, and purple cloth. 

 

I wonder how to paint them and which GW colors to use?

 

Now onto the meat of the argument:

 

- Khorne Red or Mephiston Red base?

- Balthasar Gold or Screaming Bell base?

- Gold or ivory trim?

- White or regal purple cloth?

- Yellow or blue inserts on the crest helms?

- Agrellan Earth as base?

- Ouroboros or the sun icon?

- Flesh tone?

- Spot color (gems, tokens, items, icons...)?

- Plasma/glowing effect?

 

Which colors or color schemes should I use for the above? How does the pre-HH scheme look on the CSM? How should I layer the colors? Painting advice, guide, video tutorial?

[Tenebris]

Really, no one has some input on the matter?

[EdT]

If it's any help, I did mine by doing a foundation of Runelord Brass, shaded with agrax and then highlighted back up again. I then gave the whole model a coat of red ink. Once that was dry, I used a gold trim, painted all cloth white and all gems etc green. I did the inserts for the stripey bits in silver; this risked being a bit candy-cane but looked ok in the end I think. Here are some photos...

 

 

 

[old git]

Perhaps it's down to the individual artists interpretation of the brief they're given. Some studio head honcho type says to an artist "ok, we want a piece with some Thousand Sons doing their thing".

 

The artist then does some research and discovers that the colours of the 1k Sons are mainly red, gold and ivory. With some artistic license he then creates a painting and it's given the ok by the studio. Another artist, given the same brief, would more than likely produce something different. Maybe in the shade of red, where the colours are on a figure etc. Basically, the colours are right, they just differ in each artists interpretation of the finished look. This can also be said of your preference as to what colours you put where. There is no definitive, right or wrong answer. Personally, I'm a fan of the deep red with ivory trim scheme.

[Xenith]

No one knows, basically, and I doubt we'll see the full picture until FW do the Prospero book and flesh them out.

 

I think the I.A. had them with silver trim also? It's a bit of a mess.

 

Basically, go with whatever you think looks best.

[Tenebris]

The question is how is one expected to paint an army when even the artists and GW itself have no clue what they are doing. My predicament is that I fear to put the brush on the model only to see the scheme invalidated in the future. Artistic licence or no, an Ultramarine is an Ultramarine, a Thousand Son should be a Thousand Son, Pre-Heresy or not, there should be standards. 

 

Why is being Chaos so hard nowadays?

 

The problem is that should I go blue/gold I would have achieved nothing since the boys could be Night Lords, Thousand Sons, Fallen Smurfs and anything like that, all save a clear and defined army, especially to a casual onlooker. 

[old git]

From a background point of view, there is a ten thousand plus year history to choose from. Who is to say with any degree of accuracy what changes have occurred in that time. Perhaps the chapters that made up the original legion had their own variation of the legion colours. Since the heresy and the splitting up of the legion each individual sorceror or warlord could have decreed that his forces are to be arrayed the way he wants.

 

I would argue from an opposite veiwpoint. If GW hasn't officially portrayed the Sons to have a set scheme then you are free to paint them as you want. Also, there are a variety of 3rd party bits makers that have all sorts of heads, shoulderpads and weapons that, without directly saying it, are obviously made to create your own Thousand Sons models. They have a heavily Egyptian influenced look which agrees with the fluff. In particular, check out Puppetswar for heads and shoulder pads. Anyone with a passing familiarity with the background should recognise them as Thousand Sons. Don't feel constrained by what GW may or may not do in the future, you'll never get anything done.

[Tenebris]

There is much disparity though. The 'Eavy Metal Alpha Legion is a completely different color scheme than the FW Alpha Legion. Where an Ultramarine is the same here and there...

 

To add a simple Egyptian crest on a model is not "Thousand Sons", it can be Sons of Horus, it can be Word Bearers, it can be everything. I want a simple and true to the lore color scheme, that is all. My problem is that there is no color scheme, no painting guide, no working concept for the traitor legions. Just taking a look at the Helbrute painting guide in WD I can see many many things wrong. 

 

What I am trying to say is that I cannot put together the puzzle. For example the Blood Angels have not one but several painting guide, they are instantly recognizable and their heraldry is complete and detailed. Chaos has no such thing, there is even an argument if traitor legions will ever again exists in the 40k ruleset.

 

I want to make a Thousand Sons army. I want it to be down to the last detail according to lore. No fuss, no frills. I have conflicting material, I have no FW material, I have no working GW material, I have no defined and clear painting guides. What I have are old pictures from Visions of Heresy, a book which predates even several players here on B&C. I have a dull and completely unrecogizable blue and gold color scheme; I have no publication to orient me on the matter.

 

So what am I to do? 

[Xenith]

Keep moaning and paint some ultramarines instead?

 

Will you really deem your army to be invalidated if you paint their trims gold, then FW comes out with ivory trims?

 

 I want it to be down to the last detail according to lore.

 

 

 

 

You've seen all the lore there is. No matter what you do, your models will be adherent to current lore. 

 

Who's to say that they didn't use both schemes? Or neither? Silver is the same as white, heraldically, as are yellow and gold. 

[Tenebris]

My problem is the following. Ivory is not Gold, Gold is not Brass and certainly not Silver. Bright Red is not equal to Dark Red. White Cloth is not equal to Purple Cloth... and so on. I just wish for the security of knowing that I am doing it right.

[Peredyne]

Ok, the only publication that I think has a definitive look for the TS is the Horus Heresy novel, "A Thousand Sons". The cover has a pretty clearly defined look of the TS legion. Based on that cover, I would make them bright red with ivory trim and green lenses.

[Excessus]

I asked FW a while back what they were using for their few models painted as TS and got this:

 

Red

Mephiston Red as basecoat

Evil Suns Scarlet for highlight

Carroburg Scarlet thin washes for shading

 

Gold

Balthasar Gold as basecoat

25/75 Balthasar Gold and Auric Armour mix for highlight

Auric Armour highlight

50/50 Auric Armour and Runefang Steel final highlight

 

Should look something as this:

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/medusa3.jpg

[SW1]

There are that many that you can have variations in unit colouring. Who's to say all of the proffered options are not right? It's one of the joys of the 30k/40k setting you can do what you want. It's safe to say if you choose to paint them some form of red with a lighter trim they'll fit in.

 

I personally think the bigger fish to fry is how the different unit markings will go. All the different types of powers they had split them up into different units. So will they have special weapons or will they just have squads of differing powers instead?

[Tenebris]

I asked FW a while back what they were using for their few models painted as TS and got this:

 

Red

Mephiston Red as basecoat

Evil Suns Scarlet for highlight

Carroburg Scarlet thin washes for shading

 

Gold

Balthasar Gold as basecoat

25/75 Balthasar Gold and Auric Armour mix for highlight

Auric Armour highlight

50/50 Auric Armour and Runefang Steel final highlight

 

Should look something as this:

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/medusa3.jpg

 

I confirm the color scheme posted above. Today I have received a mail from FW with the exact same color scheme. At least it is something resembling an official painting scheme. Now I have no fear that my models will be linked with the HH ones should I follow the recipe. 

[Tenebris]

More questions:

 

Do you know of any GW painting guide for "purple gems"?

 

Same as above but for parchment and scrollwork?

 

Power weapons: azure, bright green or purple which should be the case?

[Spear of Achilles]

I have 1K sons in my army (Soon will have 30 Rubric Marines)...I went Red + silver trim with ivory tabbards....Silver stands out more from the red and jsut looks better, and it matches some of the art, so I'm satisfied.

[Xenith]

Purple Gems were covered in the WD around the blood Angels release, I think. Perhaps the last release? They all merge into one.

[Excessus]

Purple Gems were covered in the WD around the blood Angels release, I think. Perhaps the last release? They all merge into one.

Yeah, the downside of so many releases, hehe

 

Personally I have a hard time keeping track of what is for pre-order, what is released and what is still just leaked photos... :P

[Somerandomidiot]

I went with a bit of a different scheme, personally, which a much richer red than the one Forgeworld used.  Here's some examples: