Knight Households - Break it Down for Me

[Brother Heinrich]

Hey everyone,

 

Just wanted to see if anyone could paint a concise picture of the mechanics of Knight Households/Families. I don't have all the fluff and a busy school/work schedule doesn't leave me the time for the research I'd like to do on the subject. Most importantly it'd be nice to no what the fluff "Faux Pas" are as I intend on crafting an allied Knight household for my 30k Blood Angels. So far all I really know about the workings of Knight families is the incestuous Game-of-Thrones-Style intrigue and murder of house Devine in "Vengeful Spirit". Are all Knight households that back-stabby and politically motivated?

 

 

[Grand Master Belial]

I am also in the dark about Knight Households. I am thinking of doing a write up for the Liber Challenge and my only real frame of reference are the Clan Battle Mechs from the old FASA game.

[jeffersonian000]

Actually, BattleTech's Inner Sphere is pretty much spot on for what GW has described so far for the Knight Households, so much so that one could assume GW was channelling their inner FASA when they wrote the recent fluff.

 

Think Feudal Europe, with Knights on steeds of iron doing Knightly things for lords and ladies while defending the realm from Xeno incursions, and you would be pretty much on target. Take it further with courtly intrigue, Machiavellian schemes, merchantile warfare, mercenary contracts, oaths to oaths about oaths, and you start to fill in the blanks. Knights are effectively a third Human empire, separate from yet still part of the Imperium of Man (the Imperium and the AdMech are the other two empires, that joined together pre-Grade Crusade).

 

SJ

[Brother Heinrich]

Hmmm, frankly that's annoying. I liked it better when I thought they were just an extinct part of the Titan Legios that died in the fires of the Heresy. The whole "Courtly Intrigue Oathing Knights to perform Oaths of Oathing and seek THE GRAIL" is honestly weak. Titan Legios feel like legitimate, functioning military organizations. The Way Knights are painted just makes them seem like weird tactical liabilities who can barely support themselves without the Mechanicum watching over their "Amateur-Hour" Sacristans.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Brother Heinrich

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

They had thousands of years of solitude during the Age of Strife to become insular and bored and start all the petty politics and backstabbing.

[Brother Heinrich]

True, so are all Knight households just a bunch of Mechwarrior Lannisters in Space?

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I didn't read all of the fluff in the codex or in the FW books, but that's the idea I got from it. I wouldn't say they're all as slimy as the Lannisters, but they're all described as being modeled after the knight kingdoms and households of old. There's enough of them out there that you could make up your own that isn't so cliche or stereotyped while adhering to that structure.

[jeffersonian000]

They are Knights of old writ Sci-Fi, in Mechs instead of on horses. Think the 100 years War, or the War of the Roses, or Eastern Roman Cataphracts fighting the Persian Empire. Knights are men and women of noble bloodlines, trained to wage war on the grim dark battlefields while astride their own personal war machines that are mount and armor and armament all in one.

 

Unlike the crews of AdMech Titans, Knight Nobles are their Titans, wearing their Titan as a suit of armor. Households are Knight military units based on bloodlines and oaths, brothers-at-arms that train together to work as a team. Depending on contract or alligence, they either fulfill the role of heavy support (for conventional forces) or light skirmishers (for the Titan Legions). Knights can and will defend a world on their own, in support of the Guard, as support to the God Machines, and even as mercenaries to great houses or Xeno powers.

 

SJ

Edited April 30, 2015 by jeffersonian000

[CommodusXIII]

Hmmm, frankly that's annoying. I liked it better when I thought they were just an extinct part of the Titan Legios that died in the fires of the Heresy. The whole "Courtly Intrigue Oathing Knights to perform Oaths of Oathing and seek THE GRAIL" is honestly weak. Titan Legios feel like legitimate, functioning military organizations. The Way Knights are painted just makes them seem like weird tactical liabilities who can barely support themselves without the Mechanicum watching over their "Amateur-Hour" Sacristans.

 

That's why I scrapped GW's fluff and wrote my own, in line with the Collegia Titanicus.  As with most things regarding 40K, there's no true faux pas that can't be made acceptable with the right writing.

[Demus Ragnok]

My fluff for my knights is that their house is for all intents and purposes a part of my Titan Legio.

[Brother Heinrich]

Damn, well guess I'll do what I always do then and force the fluff to fit my vision of the universe lol. In the land of Brother Heinrich PRINCEPS pilot the knight engines of Legio Eurippa (The War Horses).  

[CommodusXIII]

Damn, well guess I'll do what I always do then and force the fluff to fit my vision of the universe lol. In the land of Brother Heinrich PRINCEPS pilot the knight engines of Legio Eurippa (The War Horses).  

 

That's very close to the route that I took!  I went with the term 'hastati' for Knight pilots, as they were the line of battle ahead of the 'princeps' of the Roman Legions.  That fit my vision of the Knights being the skirmishers ahead of the main Titan engines.

[Demus Ragnok]

Damn, well guess I'll do what I always do then and force the fluff to fit my vision of the universe lol. In the land of Brother Heinrich PRINCEPS pilot the knight engines of Legio Eurippa (The War Horses).

War Horses I like. Mine are the Legio Tonarum The Thunder Horses.

[Jareddm]

It's important to keep in mind that there's plenty of Knight households that have been near completely enveloped in the bureaucracy and traditions of the Machine Cult.  Usually these were households who were too weak when they were first discovered to be able to successfully bargain with the Mechanicus.  House Atrak being a more negative example and House Hermetika being a more positive example.  Many of these houses are exactly as you describe, semi-permanent detachments to a titan Legio and essentially an integrated part of the Machine Cult.  Several such houses even do take on the colors of the Legio they operate alongside.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Jareddm

[RolandTHTG]

Remember that house device was the house that fell to Slaanesh, so they truly are the Game of Thrones version of a knightly house. Most houses are going to be closer to the traditional feudal knight concepts. They answer the calls of their lord and oaths they've sworn to other groups, but they'll fight as an organized unit on the battlefield.

[Frater Cornelius]

While not about actual hard facts, if you want a general feel about a Knight House, go check out my Profile. The text in my 'About Me' section sums it up very well. When I get on my Laptop later on, I might toss up some more texts about Knight Houses.

 

On a final note, if you can get hold of a Knight Companion, it has all the fluff you need ;)

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

Damn, well guess I'll do what I always do then and force the fluff to fit my vision of the universe lol. In the land of Brother Heinrich PRINCEPS pilot the knight engines of Legio Eurippa (The War Horses).  

 

That's very close to the route that I took!  I went with the term 'hastati' for Knight pilots, as they were the line of battle ahead of the 'princeps' of the Roman Legions.  That fit my vision of the Knights being the skirmishers ahead of the main Titan engines.

 

Shouldn't they be 'Velites' then? They were the actual skirmishers of the pre-Marian Legions after all. Hastati, as the first and lightest of the three waves of heavy infantry, would be more like Reavers, still Battle Titans (Legionaries), but lighter than the waves to follow. Then you have Warlord's Principes, then veteran Warlords (who tend to have the most experienced Princeps) and/or heavier Titan classes as the Triarii. Your Warhounds then fill the Equites role, guarding the flanks, exploiting gaps that open in the enemy line and harrying the retreating foe, while avoiding the head on clash of arms.

[Battybattybats]

Knights were the best survivors of Old Night. Consider that for a moment.
The reason? Brainwashing.

The colonisation teams were vulnerable, they needed to have sturdy dependable loyal protectors and knight pilots like titan crews require rare neurological capabilities. So brainwashing systems were built into the knights. While they are being piloted and part of the pilot merges with the Knight, a system of drives are transferred the other way that changes the pilots personality. The pilot becomes more honourable, more dependable, more loyal, more tradition-bound, yet also more ambitious, more protective of the weak and vulnerable. They had the principles of Chivalry and Noblesse Oblige written into their brains! And with ever new Knight pilot this became stronger in the knight and the society outside.

This meant that Knight worlds ended up conservative backwaters when the next wave of colonisation spread through the galaxy. Knight worlds didn't take up the new technology of advanced AI or embracing of psykers that was the downfall of the dark age of technology. And Knight worlds were more resistant to daemons and chaos and internal strife and attacking Xenos during the time till the Great Crusade.

They held together more intact than pretty much the whole the rest of mankind. They held together better than Mars, better than Earth. Thanks to the brainwashing system in the Knights. Though one House doesn't have that, the first Knight House: House Taranis on Mars.

I too recommend the Imperial Knight Companion and also the short novel Knights of the Imperium to get a good feel for how this all works together.

[CommodusXIII]

 

Shouldn't they be 'Velites' then? They were the actual skirmishers of the pre-Marian Legions after all. Hastati, as the first and lightest of the three waves of heavy infantry, would be more like Reavers, still Battle Titans (Legionaries), but lighter than the waves to follow. Then you have Warlord's Principes, then veteran Warlords (who tend to have the most experienced Princeps) and/or heavier Titan classes as the Triarii. Your Warhounds then fill the Equites role, guarding the flanks, exploiting gaps that open in the enemy line and harrying the retreating foe, while avoiding the head on clash of arms.

 

 

That's not a bad idea, and I might use the term 'velite' for another rank/position later on.  My thinking being that all Titan commanders have the title 'princeps', albeit in different grades - Princeps Seniorus, Princeps Maximus, etc.  So all of my Knight pilots will have the title 'hastatus', the next-lowest tier of soldier, with similar honorifics.  So my Knight Warlord is the Hastatus Maximus, my veteran Knights are piloted by Hastati Seniorus, etc.