Kataphron Breachers/Destroyers

[mmimzie]

Maybe a better comparison might be long fangs.

 

You can take 5x long fangs plus an ancient. that's 5 missle lauchers for 165 points compared to 3 destroyers with 2plasma blast each and a rapid firing phos gun each.

 

both units have 6 wounds. LF have 3+ save and T4 BS 4. Destroyers(KD from here on out) have 4+ save and T5. ehhh I'd say they are kinda even here. Maybe alittle nod to the long fangs, but then the destroyers have to loose two wounds to drop an attack.

 

LF's have longer range 48", but are stationary. KD have Higher STR, AP, can move, and Have an extra attack from phos gun,but only have range 24 and can take wounds from get's hot.

 

So i'd say these are a stronger comparison and i might have to say KD's are abit stronger against infantry, and the Plasma blast also has a nice effect against a  tank in a pinch. I don't know when you look at them from this point of view. i feel the destroyers are really good. That and they are just a troop choice long fangs are heavy. If you want an ally all you gotta do is pick uop these troops and the HQ, but if you want LF's in your army you have to take an HQ and troops to get LF.

 

SO i think this comparison kind of proves the destroyers are worth it.

 

Breachers make a similar comparison with multi melta LF's, but are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better haha!! By about a Texas and California mile; same save, KB's get better Toughness, and KB's can actually assault and move.

 

So i mean <.<. Just thought of this comparison while i'm studying.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, I do not consider Long Fangs worth it these days. Maybe that is the reason why I am doubting the Destroyers too.

[mmimzie]

I know because 

 

1. the new missions make none mobile troops are very meh, but these guys can move and claim objectives

2. you play wolf star :P it makes anything else decent from space wolves seem quite pointless lol.

 

Plus again these guys are about on par(KD) or better(KB) than LF's, centarions, vanguards(with out all the special rules); and we don't know the canticles. I think they have some nice potential. Either way in a few weeks when the new codex comes out I totally can't wait to either rave about how amazing they are or cry about how they were almost perfect lmao!!

 

On the bright side... they could have made KD, KB, and KR's vehicles.... lmao!!!!!!!!!! 

[Frater Cornelius]

Wolf Star is boring though :D But yeah, point two is valid. I had to chuckle. But hey, I am over it now. IK and Skits all the way now :P

[MitchH311]

I'm just thinking of 9 Thunderwolves + 2 units of 5 vanguard w/ 2 arc rifles + elimination maniple. dakka for days and beat sticks everywhere!

[Charlo]

To be fair, 12 cover ignoring plasma cannon shots plus whatever buffs a HQ brings for 400ish points is very strong.

 

Behind cover they'll take a reasonable amount of punishment back but they also have a good range to stay back and pound on the foe. You could add a knight to this, possibly a Gallant to make the enemy "shoot the big ones".

 

Then you have about 700 - 1k points left In a regular list to add skitters to get in close, an onager or even some Phosphor bots!

 

Oops: got my formations crossed, unit of bots plus 2 destroyers! Still works out though, if anything just more reasons to take more destroyers :D

 

This army will get insane if that Forgeworld update comes up :P

[Frater Cornelius]

Ignore cover comes from the Formation that includes 1 Kastelan Maniple and 2 Destroyer units and no HQ. You will be at 620 minimum. 650 if you want it to make sense. Still a lot of dakka though.

 

According to the rumours, Canticles will be one or more one-use effects, seeing as playing the AdMech detachment allows you to re-use it.

[mmimzie]

What is this about admech detachment?

[Frater Cornelius]

Check the rumour section. There is an unconfirmed Cult Detachment leak with 1HQ 8Troops 4Elites and 2HS. You get to reuse Canticles once per game and re-roll Cult traits.

[Vel'Cona]

Definitely pushes a more risk-reward gameplay style than the Skitarii, which are essentially "how awesome do I want my BS/WS to be this turn?".  That said, what the Canticles actually do will be one of the primary make-or-break aspects of Kataphrons.

[Frater Cornelius]

The Void Shield Relay synergizes pretty well with Destroyers. One set of pipes and two Void Shield with max shields for 260pts. Get Destroyers with Plasma and Cognis Flamers. That way you have virtual immunity to small arms fire until the opponent has cleared the shields. AV units and Robots will be outside of the Shields so the opponent will need to choose, while the Destroyers will have Torrent Flamers and Plasma Cannons, both of which can be fired on the move. This will put pressure on blobs and elite infantry alike and largely ignores the low BS since Flamers hit automatically and Plasma Cannons with BS3 50% chance (napkin math) to hit their original target (rolling 'hit' or scattering 4" or less given BS3 and 1.5" blast radius).

[mmimzie]

well on the notes of canticles if the rumored canticles are true and this detachment is true you'll get 2 turns of free cover save boost.  Seeing as how the bonuses are 3 tiered in that rumor you'd get atleast a 4+ cover save from the buff at max strength, plus any saves you could get from being in a building. Kind of would make the low armour save a none issue if you could do that two turns in a  row.

[ronin_cse]

well on the notes of canticles if the rumored canticles are true and this detachment is true you'll get 2 turns of free cover save boost.  Seeing as how the bonuses are 3 tiered in that rumor you'd get atleast a 4+ cover save from the buff at max strength, plus any saves you could get from being in a building. Kind of would make the low armour save a none issue if you could do that two turns in a  row.

 

I can't remember what the rumored canticles are, any chance you could post them here or link them?

[mmimzie]

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2015/05/cult-mechanicus-canticles-of-omnissah.html?m=1

[ronin_cse]

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2015/05/cult-mechanicus-canticles-of-omnissah.html?m=1

 

Thank you

[Vel'Cona]

Hmm, wonder how much salt we should take with those rumors?  I mean, seem pretty specific, but still . . .

[mmimzie]

haha i dont take it with anything :P way i see it if they are things than boom it's amazing wow awesome sauce cult so hot etc

 

if they aren't true than we are back at square one waiting for white dwarf teasers and leaks lol.

 

So i say live in both worlds until rumors become fact or myth.

[Brother Amarel]

These are the kind of mix that I was hoping the Doctrina Imperatives would be.

 

I'm also a little concerned about how piecemeal the Admech release is, in general; I wanted them to fit together more snugly than just as allies of the imperium.

[Scurvydog]

These are the kind of mix that I was hoping the Doctrina Imperatives would be.

 

I'm also a little concerned about how piecemeal the Admech release is, in general; I wanted them to fit together more snugly than just as allies of the imperium.

I feel the same way, GW even list them together in their store, makes posters with all the minis at once giving the impression of a combined adeptus mechanicus. Why are they making skitarii+kastellan web bundles if no formations/detachments allows those setups. Originally I sort of hoped skitarii would be similar to the militarum tempestus codex in how the book and minis work with astra militarum.

 

Cult formations look too good to really consider CAD in smaller games and if the canticle rule leak is true, in that they get stronger the more cult models present, the codex outright discourage allying with skitarii.

[mmimzie]

 

These are the kind of mix that I was hoping the Doctrina Imperatives would be.

 

I'm also a little concerned about how piecemeal the Admech release is, in general; I wanted them to fit together more snugly than just as allies of the imperium.

I feel the same way, GW even list them together in their store, makes posters with all the minis at once giving the impression of a combined adeptus mechanicus. Why are they making skitarii+kastellan web bundles if no formations/detachments allows those setups. Originally I sort of hoped skitarii would be similar to the militarum tempestus codex in how the book and minis work with astra militarum.

 

Cult formations look too good to really consider CAD in smaller games and if the canticle rule leak is true, in that they get stronger the more cult models present, the codex outright discourage allying with skitarii.

 

 I agree the cult if canticles are right do really make you not want to ally at all, or at best you might ally for 2 units of skit troops for the rad guns, or something like that.

[Scribe]

As I wait for Saturday to pre-order and pick up some more Skitarii while I'm at it...I think if you look at the number of threats a combined Ad Mech list can put on the table easily, they may attract fire, but that's just fire not going to other units that are also hitting hard.

 

When taken holistically I dont know, I think Ad Mech is going to be very very strong.

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

Finally up on NZ GW if anyone wants to see the kit early: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Kataphron-Battle-Servitors-Destroyers#

[Vel'Cona]

I'm not sure that needing a certain number of models to unlock the various Canticle levels is that big a problem.  The big question is: how is this calculated?  Is it based on the number of units in the army (static) or does it actually require the units to still be on the table (dynamic).  Additionally, what are the differences between the levels?  Are the bonuses for 4-7 Canticle models WAY more powerful than 1-3, or just a slight boost?  Still too many questions, IMO (if these rumors are even valid, that is)!

[mmimzie]

haha well it depends hmmm if the rumor is valid 8+ is the strongest

 

If you were mono cult: 3 units of breachers, 3 unit of destoyers, 1 unit of kastelons that's 1265 for like 27 models. if you only need 8 models than bam you'd be golden, but the rumor says at units. What i just listed in 7 units. I'd assume you'd ahve a lord so that'd give you 8, but still space is gonna be super tiht for allies so those buffs would have to be pretty strong.

 

EIther way i'm gonna run what i listed; man that army is gonna look good. I'm gonna customize each and everyone of those models to pieces. If it sucks they'll be really pretty dust collectors lmao.

[MithrilForge]

I love the new range without a doubt but the dark half of me see's the new large formations as simply a way to force you to give GW moar $$$ instead of actually being a real benefit... perhaps I've been riding GW's 40k train for so long they have slightly jaded me...

Still very cool models though

Mithril