[HH1.0] 30k Ultramarines tactics

[ronin_cse]

I've played 40 games with my 30K Ultras in the last 8 months, and I've tested it.

 

It's basically a tax, a limitation on armour, and no tangible reward for those penalties.

 

It's buffs are completely inconsequential in a general game. You'll feel the HQ and troop tax however.

 

That's what I was afraid of :/

 

Which RoW (if any) do you like to run then?

[Ishagu]

Primarch's Chosen, Pride of the Legion and the Regular Age of Darkness detachment are great for Ultras.

 

The new unique Rite of War is interesting but I don't have the models to play it. It's in the new red book, based around infiltrating infantry and Snipers.

[ronin_cse]

So what about Fulmentarus Terminators, yay or nay? If yay are Cyclone Missile Launchers the way to do for them?

[Frater Cornelius]

So what about Fulmentarus Terminators, yay or nay? If yay are Cyclone Missile Launchers the way to do for them?

 

Meh. They can get the job done, but they are overpriced for what they do. They are in HS, one of the more crowded slots for UM. They only have 1W, which seems to have become a faux pas among special TDA unit. Never used them, personally.

[Charlo]

So what about Fulmentarus Terminators, yay or nay? If yay are Cyclone Missile Launchers the way to do for them?

 

They are so expensive with Cyclones.

 

I think the Reaper is a little better for them to keep the cost adequate.

 

A fun option could actually be Combi-Meltas... BS5 Tank Hunting Melta is nothing to sneeze at...

[ronin_cse]

 

So what about Fulmentarus Terminators, yay or nay? If yay are Cyclone Missile Launchers the way to do for them?

 

They are so expensive with Cyclones.

 

I think the Reaper is a little better for them to keep the cost adequate.

 

A fun option could actually be Combi-Meltas... BS5 Tank Hunting Melta is nothing to sneeze at...

 

 

Yeah that seems like a decent upgrade for 50 points over regular terminators if one went with combi-meltas. I dunno I haven't been too impressed with Reapers. It seems like the extra 50 points would be worth it for the extra range and getting AP 3 or blasts.

 

Sounds like meltas might be the way to go though unless it's just a big game as you're right 375+ points is a ton, may as well take an Imperial Knight or something instead.

[Withershadow]

Their weapon cost needs to be cut in half, or they need to come with reapers that you pay to upgrade to cyclones.

[buffon]

Hi there! Im wondering if its possible to make UM work by building list on others ROWs like: orbital assault or sky hunter phalanx. Building list on vets/tac/support squads/heavy support squads in pods combine with UM special rules looks like something to consider imo, in alternative to Guilliman/Suzerain D.star. What U thing Guys? Are We "damned" to competitive mono builds? How can We otherwise maximize UM special rules/characters? Any ideas/concepts of play styles?

[Angmarred]

I don't have a ton of experience playing then but they seem like a really good Orbital Assault army. With Gulliman you can get Suzerain as troops and make the Dread of your choice Implacable Advance. Venatus gives a reserve bonus which is both really helpful and hard to get in Orbital Assault. Edited March 6, 2017 by Angmarred

[Brother Captain Sirus]

Just a quick question about Legiones Astartes Ultramarines.

 

Do you get the rerolls to wound when shooting at an enemy unit if the original hit was done by a blast weapon?

 

As it states 'this does not effect snap shots or blast weapons.'

Does this mean:

1) that blast weapons cant get the reroll if firing second, or

2) that blast weapons cant mark targets, and also cant get the reroll if firing second

 

 

Edit: sorry post in wrong subforum, if a mod could move this to the correct location that would be greatly appreciated.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Brother Captain Sirus

[Slips]

Topic merged into 30k UM Tactica thread. Remember, if you're asking a question about a specific legions rules but cant seem to find their thread, we have an index of sorts: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326858-general-30k-tactica-thread-repository/

[StruManChu]

Hello frater!

 

Thought I'd post in here before it gets too dusty again.

 

I've got a game coming up and I'd love some advice. It's 1500 Zone Mortalis against Iron Warriors with probably at least two Iron Circle, a Leviathan and a bunch of Terminators/Veterans. Now, I've played a few ZM games before, but with my Fists who are geared towards that sort of thing, rather than my Ultras who are all new and nascent.

 

Here's what I'm thinking - 

 

Warlord - Forgelord in Tartaros w/ Rad Grenades. 

I was in two minds about this, with the other side obviously wondering about a Delegatus for Chosen Duty/RoW because that would be good at the low point level, but I'm fairly confident that's what my opponent is going to run, and I don't want to just mirror him. Forge Lord is a covert beatstick too, with the servo-arm giving +1A and rad grenades taking a point of toughness.

 

Troops - Breachers

I've got a unit of 10 UM Breachers - 5 w/ Power Swords, 1 Flamer and 1 Meltagun. The Flamer is just a few extra bolter shots in the event of being charged (also, rending! Thanks Zone Mortalis!) and the Meltagun will be good for locked doors or incidental Contemptors, which I'm pretty sure he's bringing. Overall though, I'm thinking this unit will probably end up being something of a distraction and/or speed bump. I'm not expecting it to do much other than pose some psychological threat because they look all fancy.

 

Troops - Tactical Squad

Bare bones, just to put some more bodies on the table. Probably chuck a Melta Bomb on the Sergeant for locked doors, but otherwise I'll just use these guys to paint units so more interesting stuff can re-roll their own hits.

 

Elites - Contemptor Talon/Contemptor Cortus Talon

One with dual Kheres, one with dual Fists. I'll probably run Melta/Plas or Melta/Flamer on the fists. Not sure if what type I should run them as though. I'm thinking the cheaper Cortus would be a better option.

 

Elites - Tartaros Terminators

Combi-Plasma & Chainfist/T-Hammer dudes to go with the Forge Lord. Nothing special.

 

Elites - Invictarus Suzerain

I know they're a bit of a glass cannon, and not super useful a lot of the time, but it's Zone Mortalis, and they have cool shields. Plus, striking at initiative with AP2 against a Termi-heavy list is a good thing, especially if...

 

Elites - Techmarine w/ Rad-Missile Servitors

With the T7 Iron Circle running around the board, I thought it might be a good idea to have something that'll take the edge off. More cost effective than Destroyers are for this purpose as well. Still, perhaps not the best use of an Elites choice when I've only got two. Don't want to put the Servitors with the Forge Lord though, because I want to use them for different things.

 

Fast Attack - Seeker Squad

Combi-Plasma seekers to chew up either a squad of Terminators or an Iron Circle and pay for themselves, then probably die, hopefully in that order. I've come to terms with the fact that I'm not going to be able to fit Veterans in without the Delegatus, so I'm looking at these guys instead, though a Plasma Support Squad would likely do a slightly worse job for slightly cheaper.

 

Heavy Support - Deredeo w/ Plasma Spam (& Atomantic Pavaise?)
Deliberately not going to use a Leviathan because it became an auto-include with my Fists and I want to do something different. Plasma for the AP2, fancy AOE shield to give some cover to squidgy units in the shooting gallery that is ZM.

 

 

However, I can't fit all of these into a Zone Mortalis list, let alone 1,500 points. I also like pretty much all of these options, so I have no real idea what to do. Any suggestions, Frater?

Edited September 21, 2017 by StruManChu

[The Native]

Two or more Iron Circle and a Leviathan will be tough to deal with. Coupled with Terminators and Vets it is a tough force to contend with. However, it will be relatively low in models. 

 

You could use Breachers to hold up the bigger threats for a long time. Two units of Breachers could effectively nullfiy the Iron Circle and Leviathan long enough for them to be stopped from doing anything useful. The Levi can only kill up to 4 marines a turn and the Iron Circle 2 each - without factoring in crushing blow. It's hypothetical but something to keep in mind.

 

Why invest 10 points a model on combi-plas for the Seekers just as a suicide unit? Scorpius shells will carve through 2+ armour to kill Terminators with re-rolled 3+ to wound. I you use their Marked for Death special rule the Terminators will die even easier. 

 

Suzerain are another unit that will carve up Terminators. And they're just as resilient as Tartaros.

 

Why not Cataphractii over Tartaros? They're slow but more resilient which is a better advantage in ZM I feel.

 

I've never run a Deredeo but the example you're suggesting is as much as a base line Leviathan. The Pavaise seems a waste unless you are going to use other units with it to act as a fire base. For 10 points less you'd get a Heavy Support Squad of 9 with Missile Launchers. They'd throw out more firepower and can deal with tough targets as well as marines.

[The Native]

Just a quick question about Legiones Astartes Ultramarines.

 

Do you get the rerolls to wound when shooting at an enemy unit if the original hit was done by a blast weapon?

 

As it states 'this does not effect snap shots or blast weapons.'

Does this mean:

1) that blast weapons cant get the reroll if firing second, or

2) that blast weapons cant mark targets, and also cant get the reroll if firing second

 

 

Edit: sorry post in wrong subforum, if a mod could move this to the correct location that would be greatly appreciated.

Whenever a unit with LA:UM special rule makes a shooting attack a against a target which has been successfully hit in the same shooting phase by another UM unit the may re-roll rolls of 1 to wounds or penetrate armour. This does not affect Snap Shots or Blast weapons.

[Slips]

Look into the ZM RoW if youre thinking breachers; having breachers with a 4++ makes for a bery effective tarpit

[Charlo]

While not HUGE against everything, you can also sprinkle in a power sword or two for another AP3 attack in the mix per guy.

[LukeTheButcher]

Afternoon all,

 

I'm hoping you can offer a bit of advice to a Ultramarine novice. I have a 1500 pt ZM tourni coming up and I will be taking my lad, a true Blue.

As a result, we will be running Ultramarines, but I am at a loss to A) What works in ZM and B) what works for Ultramarines

 

I am looking at : a Breacher Squad, a squad of Cataphractii & a squad of Tartorus Terminators, Contemptor?

 

But no idea what is works to get the best out of the Ultramarine tactics.

 

Any advice appreciated.

[The Ironic Warrior]

Wrote a nice long post with observations but the internet had other plans. TLDR Fulmentarii are too expensive, Locutarii are great but pick targets carefully, Sniper vets with Heavy Flamers are 10/10 and Suzerain are incredible in Land Raiders. Woop 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Yaaar's Revenge

[battlingsumo]

Hi so I would like to get back into the Horus Heresy after taking a break for a while. I collected Ultramarines and I would like to expand my force, so far I have

-3x10 man tactical squads

-1x7 man plasma support squad

-1x5 man melta support squad

-1x5 Tartaros terminators (not too sure about their load out)

-1x5 man locutarus Storm squad

-1x5 man command squad (with various power weapons)

-1 legion champion

-1 master of signals

-1 praetor in terminator armour (B@C one)

-3 apothecaries

-1 Land raider Phobos

-1 Baneblade that I had lying around so I converted into a legion baneblade, not really expecting to use it anytime soon

 

I think the idea was that I was going to build a list that utilised interlocking tactics to the maximum so I was going to add some reconnaissance squads with snipers to marke targets. I'm not sure if I want to go with that anymore so my question is what I should add to my force to build up to a balanced, let's say 2500 point list. Budget isn't really an issue so I'm open to buying pretty much anything from forgeworld.

Edited December 17, 2017 by battlingsumo

[Reyner]

Get some Invictarus Suzerains :D they are rather kickass.

[BloodTzar]

Hello brothers,

 

It has been some time I touched 30k  with all the models I bought for dead game (locally), however while re-reading Calth books, new fan made trailer out, and seeing some UM bat-reps I am playing with the idea to have 2nd loyalist army (have BA), that would be UM.

 

Now I have traitor EC(3+k), WB(3+k)army - where UM as arch traitors would fit perfectly :) and the loyalist BA army . I would like to have 30-40k army (2.5k -3k)  that might ; work centred around Guilliman ( have both models) and 3 razors (30k rhinos with turrets) and one Leviathan.

 

I know this might sound cheese or what, but with the amount of models I am not even able to complete, I just cant justify 2 armies :/

 

Any ideas about the 2.5-3k army that might fit in both 30-40k (30k primarly ofc)

 

Thank you in advance

~BT

[Charlo]

As I tend to do, I'm toying around with the idea of some different legions and currently jonesing on the Ultras.

 

While I can't stand them in 40k (marysue), the War-Born in 30k are downright awesome (flawed but powerful).

 

What would a decent 3kish list look like utilising their special units and flavour? Maybe even their Rites of War? Any special tips and tricks for using them?

[richmarine]

I've been trying to collect Ultras for 2 years (I think) and I get stuck on this a lot.

 

From what I gleam off others their special units are not great. Except the suzies.

 

Their Rules lean towards more infantry based shootie units to maximise the use of the re-roll to wound/armour pen.

 

Template weapons I feel would be wasted on the army (though I think you can still "tag" units with Blast), as is mass armour because of the aforementioned rule.

 

I'm thinking maybe a few laser destroyers will be quite good to make the most out of shooting as I think they also benefit from the rule.

 

lastly Tacs with rhinos with Multimelta. Shoot the Rhinos first to get re-rolls for your other squads.

 

Maxing out on HQs seems to be norm too. A master of signals with a heavy support squad/tactical support to increase BS and then have them hit previously "tagged" enemies for re-roll to wound/pen.

 

Chaplain with the Suzies to max your damage and maybe a praetor. Stick them in Land Raider, Spartan seems too big.

 

ROW are not worth taking.

 

That's my thoughts.

Edited September 17, 2018 by richmarine

[Charlo]

Yeah seems to be similar to what I thought.

 

I really like the idea of the Vigil Opertii Mission RoW, but being locked into +1 S, I & Ld means it's quite hard to utilise the Militia for much more than "SURPRISE FIREPOWER" with infiltrate, though I'm sure theres something to be said about Grenadiers that fight as hard as marines and strike at the same time. Plus S6 Ogryns are full on brutal, though the lack of FNP will be felt I'm sure... Plus, ooft - 150pts in provinences means you need to really lean on that Militia detachment to make the cost worth it!

 

You could do the loyalist version of a "cult horde" with 20 man Militia squads armed with Shotguns that infiltraite and just be a general nuisance, with the back-up plan of being S4 I4 in combat (even if they are only in Flak armour). Pseudo-40k scouts.

 

Or even just a couple of Infiltrating Grenadier squads could put some cheap Plasma Guns in a nice position to score objectives, or a fire support squad full of heavy weapons in cover, that can react to your opponents deployment.

 

Though again, it's dubious how effective this would be... At least the compulsory troops in the Ultras detachment could be Recon Marines, which are pretty cheap and get a few unique options.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Yes, the 150 pts. worth of provenances easily pump up the price volume of your (allied) Force Commander to 230+ pts.  .... making him more expensive than a Praetor.

 

Though in that regard, he essentially becomes a watered-down version of one, with Power Armour, Iron Halo and a STR 8 Power Fist due to the provenances.

 

The (required) Vigilator has great synergy with the allied contingent, that's a given.

 

Now, if only those Augmented Weapons were +1 STR instead of a flat STR 4, then Grenadiers would be really fun here ... but alas they're not.

 

I'd prolly have the Force Commander run with a fully-kitted squad of special weapon Grenadiers, and take the aforementioned Militia squad with shotguns as a 2nd troops choice. They're still scoring and can be a nuisance given their low price.

 

Or go for that infiltrating Gorgon ...