[HH1.0] 30k Ultramarines tactics

[The Pounder]

Quick question while we're on the subject of Fulmentarus,

is it worth taking a squad of 5?

I'm playing a 3k pts game at the weekend.

I intend on taking Guilliman with Suzerain in Landraider,

Locutarus, 2 Sicarans and a bucket load of tacticals in Rhinos.

I've used the Fulmentarus a few times and they have either done

really well or completely useless. Would I have better luck with

them in higher numbers?

I'm waiting for FW to release the models before adding another 5!

But I'm sure my opponent wouldn't mind me proxying a few.

[Ishagu]

I'll go ahead and say at 3k points you should bring 10.

If your opponent focuses on them, Guilliman can advance in his Raider.

If they are ignored, they'll do severe damage to the opposition army, especially with 2 Sicarans providing further ranged support.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Siege Tyrants are not better than Fulmentarus.

 

A big squad of Fulmentarus has Tank Hunting, -1 to enemy cover and night vision!

 

 

There is no doubt Fulmentarus are better than Siege Tyrants, they are bs5 and get those bonuses you mentioned, however they are significantly more expensive. I would argue in fact too expensive when taken with a CML, the pts difference between a fulemntarus and a tyrant being around 3 melta bombs, which seems a bit much for the extra bs and benefits. I mean in a 3k game you're sinking a fourth of points into a ten man unit. 

Edited September 17, 2016 by Lord Asvaldir

[Flint13]

They also start dropping those benefits as soon as you lose three of those otherwise standard, single wound terminators.

 

As if they weren't big enough fire magnets already.

[Terminus]

Siege Tyrants are significantly better because they are like 100 points cheaper for the base unit and 20 points less per guy. Don't forget you have to buy power fists too!

 

That's enough for a Siege Breaker (I.e permanent tank Hunter), and phosphex for a full quad mortar battery.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Terminus

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah I can't condone dropping some 700pts in 10 models. For nothing else, I can just take other stuff for the collection.

[The Pounder]

Thanks for the replies gents!

I decided against the Fulmentarus on this occasion.

I thought I'd add another Landraider and tactical squads.

Not as sexy but definitely more practical!

I already have Guilliman, Suzerain and Locutarus so pts

left over were pretty light.

[caladancid]

Tactical squads?! What are you using them for? Holding objectives while Guilliman and Suzerains do work? I have never found tacticals to be the best choice for my Ultras, so I'm interested to hear how you are using them.

[Captain Idaho]

On the subject - what sort of effectiveness are Ultramarines Tacticals? Fury of the Legion, combined with a glorious Interlocking Tactics should be good?

 

And if we use the Logos (I'm aware folk dislike but let's Theoretical) surely we get mileage out of counter attack alongside it? Consider World Eaters or Orks raring towards us and we unleash 30-80 bolt rounds (depending on how many models are still standing) with interlocking tactics, then they charge us and we get 2 attacks per model plus characters.

 

Now imagine it with extra close combat weapons! That's going to be a lot of damage!

 

***

 

In my theoretical of that, I consider that, alongside target saturation, the Tacticals take objectives within 24" of the enemy (either from their approach or an objective they need) and play anti-infantry. Your infantry elites meanwhile are launching assaults on objectives or dangerous enemy units etc.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Captain Idaho

[Runefyre]

I have found that IT makes tacticals quite good at dealing with equivalent troops in other armies (whether legion or xenos).

 

It also racks up the wounds noticeably better against all the op mechanicum bots.

[Captain Idaho]

IT?

[Runefyre]

IT?

Interlocking Tactics

 

Probably should have made that a little clearer than an all caps it

[Captain Idaho]

Lol no I have a brain that sometimes struggles to think laterally with regards to such things.

 

A true Ultramarine? ;)

 

Since I'll be regularly fighting Necrons, Daemons and Tyranids with my Legion forces soon (don't ask!) I'll be using Tacticals alongside my Breachers (larger games mostly for the latter) so the Fury of the Legion alongside Interlocking Tactics should even the odds. Expecially with counter attacking the charge.

[Terminus]

It really won't. Fury of the Legion is more flavor than anything, most games it will amount to a handful of extra shots.

[Captain Idaho]

Even so, playing mostly infantry armies too so it should be good.

[Sentinel Guy]

I'm trying to build an army with Remus Ventanus as the leader. Does anybody use him?

[Ishagu]

No, I don't think his buffs are particularly worthwhile. He's more of a fluffy option, imo.

[Charlo]

He's pretty nice for some of his buffs, but you need to build an army around him.

 

I'll mostly paraphrase 1D4Chan but it still stands:

 

The Reserves shenanigans are very powerful, especially -1 to your opponents that can stack with a Proteus to make your opponent at -2! Plus you can re-roll your own ensuring your jets/ pods/ outflankers/ deep strikers appear on time.

 

No to mention he has a nuncio for accurate deep strikes.

 

Plus because of his standard he, any unit he joins and anything within 6" is fearless. He can also take a command squad of Suzerains who can take another banner so you get two 12" blobs of fearless for your battle line - incredible in 30k.

[Ishagu]

You can get all of those benefits in other ways which are more effective in my opinion.

 

The Ultras have great ways of granting additional leadership or re-rolls, and a Command Rhino can provide the reserve manipulation as well as additional transport and orbital bombardment.

 

Better off, imo, with a different Consul or a Praetor. Ironically the Herald isn't a great option for Ultras as our best CC unit already has WS5.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Ishagu

[Charlo]

Oh totally, but he's sort of an all in one package that's rather cheap for a gun line with a bit of CC too (like a lot of Ultras).

[exsanguis]

Brothers,

 

Thoughts on Veterans (with Marksmen) without any special weapons? Just 10 bros and their bolters against the universe. I have always used Plasma Guns but really they only ever get either 1 long range shot or maybe the odd double tap out of a Rhino once per game before they're dog food. I guess at that point they just become Tactical Marines +1, which may defeat the purpose.

[crazyterran]

Ventanus is best in an orbital assault army - he wants to deep strike in, and being able to reroll increases the odds of your forces coming in turn 2 to back you up.

 

Marksmen Veterans (the theoretical) to me are best used hiding in a rhino, coming in from outflank. Of course the dream is rapid firing bolters rending the heck out of some terminators, or a meltagun sniping out some hidden power fists. But 135 points for a minimum squad in a rhino to outflank twice over, so you can spend more on toys is also a thing you can do, since Guilliman can hand out Implacable advance to one unit type and Suzerains come with it.

[Charlo]

It's all well and good in theory, but why spend a chunk of points on a unit when you can make it so much better for just 20-30 more on two weapon options.

[Flint13]

^Charlo sums up my thoughts on it.

 

Besides a minute point savings, are there any circumstances where it wouldn't be a better idea to grab a couple extra special weapons?

 

Even plasma or melta is pretty darn cheap.

[Ishagu]

I always take 2 special weapons and a combi on the Sgt in Veteran units.

 

I may sometimes take a Pistol and Fist on the Sgt instead.