Skitarii and Mechanicum HARD DATA review

[MoGuy]

Has still no one something to report on the Secutarii?

 

I have almost finished painting 10 Secutarii Peltasts and just noticed they they too have the Kyropatris Fieldgenerator. So they too get to re-roll armour saves of 1 and if they get shot at the shots are at -1 strength. 

 

My predictions is that their performance won't be much of a surprise. They will eat GEQs and blobs for breakfast and can also take down MEQs quite reliably. But they probably won't stick around for long and be target priority Nr. 1 if you play mono Skitarii. 

 

However, it is nice that we will have more infantry which will divert firepower from our Vanguards. Footslogging three Vanguard and two Peltast squads up the field will truly be a sight to behold! 

 

Question is: Is there any use left for the Rangers? I love the hooded models. Are 10 Rangers with an Omnispex still alright to take as an objective camper in our backfield? 5 Rangers have way too little firepower to even come close to taking out special MEQ models (heavy weapons, sergeants etc.) reliably.

[SpiritFox22]

Has still no one something to report on the Secutarii?

 

I have almost finished painting 10 Secutarii Peltasts and just noticed they they too have the Kyropatris Fieldgenerator. So they too get to re-roll armour saves of 1 and if they get shot at the shots are at -1 strength. 

 

My predictions is that their performance won't be much of a surprise. They will eat GEQs and blobs for breakfast and can also take down MEQs quite reliably. But they probably won't stick around for long and be target priority Nr. 1 if you play mono Skitarii. 

 

However, it is nice that we will have more infantry which will divert firepower from our Vanguards. Footslogging three Vanguard and two Peltast squads up the field will truly be a sight to behold! 

 

Question is: Is there any use left for the Rangers? I love the hooded models. Are 10 Rangers with an Omnispex still alright to take as an objective camper in our backfield? 5 Rangers have way too little firepower to even come close to taking out special MEQ models (heavy weapons, sergeants etc.) reliably.

 

I've had a few games with the Peltasts, gonna be completely honest they're amazing.  They can actually shoot literally EVERYTHING to death.  Granted if you're dealing with AV14 you may get 1-3 glances outta 20shots, but besides that, it's stupid at how useful these guys are.  They're purely a better vanguard and thanks to rerolling 1's on armor saves and -1str at blobs of 10 or more.  

 

I've gotten 4 games under my belt with them and they've made their points back every game.  Granted I've ran 2 20man blobs, proxied cause I'm waiting on the vanguard/ranger boxes to come in.  Now they've died out every game, but my opponents had to focus quite a bit of resources just to take them down, well minus the one using a Squadron of Thunderfire cannons, but he's :cuss.  The peltasts so far usually survive 3 turns of shooting at them, if they're not played Target No1 anyway then they've survived the initial volley, but left the rest of the army unscathed.

 

My peltasts kill count so far.

1 x Flying hive tyrant

140 x Stabby Gaunts

6 x Warriors

3 x Rhinos

4 x 10 man SM squads

1 x Landraider

1 x Thunderfire cannon

4 x Eldar Windriders

Honerable mention they took 3 wounds off a Wraithknight in one turn.

[MoGuy]

Thank you for the insight!

 

You can't hurt AV14 with the Peltasts. Rending only adds D3 to the penetration roll. So S4 + 6(roll) + D3(Rending) = 13(maximum). You can only hurt up to AV13 so that Land Raider should have been safe. 

 

Other than that their performance sounds really solid. I haven't got the money for 40 Peltasts so how would you field 20 of them? One big blob or 2x10? 

 

Which ammo do you use the most? Mathhammer says that the Salvo shots are better than the Rending shots but I can imagine that they could snipe a bit with the Rending shots. 

[Charlo]

The Peltasts are obviously so OP it hurts :P

 

I'm avoiding getting an attachment to them until the final rules drop in Tempest/ the next IA because I bet they will change.

 

How about the Hoplites? Quite honestly they seem like the ultimate combo with their Titan guard brothers, Haywire-a-plenty stopping any transport in it's tracks.

 

I'll certainly be bringing a big unit to Apoc where I can to go Titan Hunting.

[CommodusXIII]

I want a full-size unit of Hoplites just to march them across the table in formation.

[Charlo]

I want a full-size unit of Hoplites just to march them across the table in formation.

 

RIGHT?!?!

[SpiritFox22]

Thank you for the insight!

 

You can't hurt AV14 with the Peltasts. Rending only adds D3 to the penetration roll. So S4 + 6(roll) + D3(Rending) = 13(maximum). You can only hurt up to AV13 so that Land Raider should have been safe. 

 

Other than that their performance sounds really solid. I haven't got the money for 40 Peltasts so how would you field 20 of them? One big blob or 2x10? 

 

Which ammo do you use the most? Mathhammer says that the Salvo shots are better than the Rending shots but I can imagine that they could snipe a bit with the Rending shots. 

 

...Damn you're right, forgot basic math's, I'll have to apologize to him later.

 

Honestly what I used heavily depended on what I faced.  At the start, pure hammershot I had the range and 20 shots hitting on 2's is nothing to sneeze at.  Wiped a full Grav Tac squad in one turn, more so because I always pay for the Omnispec.

 

 After that I liked to hug cover with them and spam the Ignis shot, purely because it forced my opponents to make bad plays.  However the FHT got ganked from the Salvo.

 

The main thing that makes them so damned good is purely they're survivable, not the most but far more than most, and ungodly flexible when it comes to  dealing with threats.

 

As far as how I fielded them I ran the full blob for the -1str to harm and rerolls to armor save.  You'd be surprised at just how much those two things  save them.

[Charlo]

30" guns and scout from the detachment means you are easily in range all game too I suppose.

[SpiritFox22]

Exactly that kinda hard to run from someone who can sit in the middle of the board and shoot all but the very edge.

[Charlo]

Here's one for you - Pop in a Dominus to tank... Will he get the -1S Aura? Should do!

[CommodusXIII]

He'll also re-roll failed armour saves.

[MoGuy]

 

Here's one for you - Pop in a Dominus to tank... Will he get the -1S Aura? Should do!

 

 

Yes. Because funnily enough the rule doesn't say that only models with the Kyropatris Fieldgenerator get its benefits. The whole squad will get the benefits as long as there are 5 or 10 models with the generator alive. So yes, Dominus with a 2+ armour, re-rolling 1s it is! :')

 

 

The main thing that makes them so damned good is purely they're survivable, not the most but far more than most, and ungodly flexible when it comes to  dealing with threats.

 

As far as how I fielded them I ran the full blob for the -1str to harm and rerolls to armor save.  You'd be surprised at just how much those two things  save them.

I am acutally not surprised. :P The re-rolls and -1str make even those spindly T3 guys surprisingly tough. I think I'll also try fielding them as 20 guys with a Dominus up front to make them even harder to kill. 

 

[Charlo]

Welp, dominus with those guys it is. Ultimate haywire brigade.

 

Hope everyone enjoys BS2 overwatch from them, or BS2 haywire rifles at flyers!

[CommodusXIII]

I sure do, and I enjoy BS4 Overwatch from lucky rolls on the Skitarii Warlord Traits table even more.

 

By far my favorite unit in the Skitarii list is a squad of Vanguard with 3 Plasma Calivers and an Alpha Warlord.  Sure, it's pricey, but it's a ridiculous amount of fun to erase entire units whenever it shoots.

[MoGuy]

 

 

By far my favorite unit in the Skitarii list is a squad of Vanguard with 3 Plasma Calivers and an Alpha Warlord.

 

I love that our basic troops are so powerful! It's awesome every time 10 Vanguard with nothing more than an Omnispex start drowning those Tac Marines in wounds. God I hate Space Marines with a burning passion. GW's pandering to them with new content etc. is just infuriating. Other armies are waiting for years to get some new models or rules and the Spehs Muhreens just keep getting new formations, new models etc. like a spoiled child. 

 

Back @Topic: I actually like the Dragoons the most. Our ostrich-walkers of doom are just so awesome. They are good no matter what they do. Need to grab an objective fast? No probs, the Dragoon is there with his Dunestrider. A horde of Ork Boys is looking to charge your Vanguard? Send a Dragoon in there and laugh in binary as those S4 models can't put a scratch on the Dragoon. The enemy is hiding in METAL BAWKSES?! Onwards my noble ostrich-steed, smash that AV10 rear with some tasty S8 hits! Your opponent has finally recognised the Dragoons for the walking destruction that they are and wants to shoot at them? Sure, go ahead and destroy those 45 points. My Onager will be pleased for every anti-tank weapon that will shoot at the Dragoon. 

 

It's a shame that we only have 2 fast attack slots in the Skitarii Maniple. Dragoons work best as single models or in duos max (so that all those wounds will just destroy one Dragoon and not spill over to the next few in the squad). 

[MoGuy]

One think that popped into my head while playing against Daemons and their quintillion warpcharges recently: Has someone found a way to deal with the Psychic Phase? I am thinking about taking a Culexus Assassin. Any other ideas?

[CommodusXIII]

I've made great use of my Culexus Assassin in the past.  I don't really want to ally in Space Marines or Guard for their own psykers, and the Culexus works very well to lock down significant areas of the board.  Because of this, it will also likely be the prime target.

 

There's a couple things you can do about that.  You can try to distract away from the Culexus, allowing it more time to do its job.  Rather, I tend to let opponents focus on it so the rest of the army can get to work.  Between its aura, shooting attack and close combat abilities it can fend for itself for a short period of time.

[MoGuy]

I really hope that once 8th edition drops GW will rework the Psychic Phase in such a way that every faction can at least effectively deny some powers. It's just stupid that there are some races that have literally no counterplay to psychic powers. Even the Dark Eldar have the Helm Of Spite that gives them Adamantine Will in a 12" bubble and makes any psykers peril on any double when inside of the bubble. 

 

GW should give each faction at least an artefact/warlord trait/(special) character that gives some defense against spells. 

[Charlo]

Culexus, OR one of my faves - you ally in a Librarius conclave, all roll on the lightning discipline and count them as crazy super Electro-priests :D

 

Hell, that unit swapping power? That damn makes the Priests usable O.O

[MoGuy]

Culexus, OR one of my faves - you ally in a Librarius conclave, all roll on the lightning discipline and count them as crazy super Electro-priests

Hell, that unit swapping power? That damn makes the Priests usable O.O

Yes and I hate that. 40K's ally mechanics make the game a patchwork where everyone tries to cherrypick stuff from allies to make their army better. Age Of Sigmar does a far better job where you can of course take allies. But if you do you don't get (what is essentially) a Warlord Trait and no access to the artefacts. If you, however, build your army only with a specific faction you do get access to those and sometimes even other boni. Also, formations cost points to unlock, which is something 40K desperately needs too.

The fact that a single spell suddenly makes Electro-Priests viable is another point for my argument. That is total BS. There are whole lists that revolve around getting that single spell (most often it is Invisibility) to make that special unit/deathstar viable. The balance is literally non-existant in the Psychic Phase since we have spells that are just grossly overpowered and stuff that no one uses. I don't remember ever seeing someone rolling on Telekinesis on a tournanment.

I hate the fact that the Psychic Phase is so unbalanced and that just because of those uber-spells I have to somehow include a counter in my army. I will gladly ignore that Ork Wyrdboy or that ML2 Inquisitor. But going against Daemons or Eldar I am forced to come up with something if I don't just want to hang back and watch my opponent cast spell after spell after spell. And that sucks.

/rant

I think in the end I'll go for the Culexus assassin. He isn't as much of an investment as the Librarius conclave points- and moneywise. Any tips on how to keep the guy alive?

[Charlo]

I don't like it too much, but it's far tamer than other ones out there.

 

Plus limiting it to electricity discipline only and making appropriate models at least helps it out, especially as there are no transports.

[Tiger9gamer]

I would like to try the electricity discipline... ooo, wishlisting but I hope an electro priest squad can at least be psykers with only that discipline. that could make it silly and fun.

 

but yea I HATE the psychic phase too. the fact you can have a counter to a powerful unit (str 10 neutron lasers versus T5 Thunderwolves) be completely fethed over by a random roll before the game. (Endurance) and outside of the culexus there is nothing you can do about it. even denying is a crapshoot with blessings like that. So suddenly your one and only counter to a deathstar is now as worthless as sand.

 

yes i'm salty.

[MoGuy]

 

 

he fact you can have a counter to a powerful unit (str 10 neutron lasers versus T5 Thunderwolves) be completely fethed over by a random roll before the game. (Endurance) and outside of the culexus there is nothing you can do about it

 

I also hate the seize the initiative roll. My buddy and I have agreed to not seize the initiative anymore because it is purely dumb luck. If I play my Dark Eldar with their AV10 paperboats and get to deploy first only for my opponent to roll that 6 and destroy half my Venoms then that isn't my fault. It wasn't a tactical error and I have 0 influence on the seize roll. So just because seize exists I have to deploy defensively just because my opponent could have that dumb luck and steal my first turn.

 

 

 

even denying is a crapshoot with blessings like that

 

Denying is a broken mechanic that just doesn't work. You get that power off with two 6s? Great, let me try to roll two 6s with my three dice. -_- It would be much better if every 6 I roll for the deny roll negates a successful warpcharge. So if you want to get a power off that costs 2 WC and you roll a 4 and a 5 then I only need to roll a single 6 to negate one successful harvested WC and I would thus stop the power. 

[Tiger9gamer]

Yea, I wholeheartedly agree. it sucks even more for skitarii because of the steal can wipe out half your army with nothing you can do about it.

 

but let's make a different thread for saltiness! this is for data!

[Castellan Cato]

Tactically speaking, it's very important for us that the FAQ specifies that seize happens BEFORE scout moves.

 

Deploy forward, near terrain if you can. If you get seized on, use your scout move to pull back to safety. At least that's how it's worked for me post FAQ.