Skitarii and Mechanicum HARD DATA review

[clanfield]

yep im considering small wepons teams 5 van with arc and then meat shield 10 man no upgrades as a way to go

[CommodusXIII]

My Skitarii have been doing very well in a local Kill Team league. My list is as follows:

 

Vanguard Alpha with phorsphor blast pistol, power sword and refractor field

Vanguard with plasma caliver and Preferred Enemy specialization

Vanguard with radium carbine and Rending (shooting) specialization

Vanguard with radium carbine and Crusader specialization

4 Vanguard with radium carbines

Ironstrider Ballistarius with twin-linked Cognis autocannon

 

The Ironstrider is sufficent to take out any other light vehicle, rush to claim objectives, or tarpit units in combat. It's definitely the MVP so far.

 

On the other hand, the plasma Vanguard works well against vehicles or erasing individual infantry models. He's also adept at frying himself, even with the re-roll.

 

The Alpha just tries not to die.

 

What I'm most impressed with, however, are the stock Vanguard. Between the decent range, high number of shots per capita and rad poisoning the radium carbine is the sleeper hit of Kill Team. I've taken down everything from Lychguard to Wraithguard with those lucky 6s.

 

I'm definitely a fan, though my enthusiasm wanes at larger point scales. My heart will always belong to my Knights. :)

[Tiger9gamer]

Oh 01110000011011110110111101110000 I forgot to upload my data! 

 

So I played another game at 1,000 points, using the same ish list I had before... except now with a knight paladin! opponent was a imperial guard player with  a fully decked out knight crusader

 

Unit of 10 vanguard w/ Omnispex, 3 Arc Rifles, and an Inquisitor attached So this unit was fairly good, being my main centerfield unit of pain. The inquisitor managed to get the ignores cover power and combined with that and prescience he melted a chimera turn 1 getting me first blood. Managed to also take the last wound off a second chimera before they got destroyed by a Punisher cannon Vulture. with only three vanguards left, they managed to kill a 7 man strong guardsman squad with only 12 shots, so they did really well.  Took a very long time to get into range though.

 

 

Unit of 10 vanguard w/ Omnispex, 3 Arc Rifles This squad was kinda screwed from the start, being out of range just barely to hurt the crusader and having to go to ground to not die from a battle cannon, along with hiding in a ruin for one more turn before they really got out to play. They did manage to kill the enemy's warlord command squad though, so it was pretty good. Still, the range kinda hurt them

 

Unit of 5 Rangers w/ Omnispex very poor placement on my part had them running most of the game, but they managed to kill three guardsmen so Eh? didn't do much else, even with longer range

 

Onager Dune Crawler w/ Neutron I forgot my 1st turn deployment basics apparently, as I had him in a far corner and my opponent deployed in the opposite one. Still, managed to take 2 hull points off a chimera (not blowing it up though) until his gun got blown off. Would have saved me the game though as if he was the last unit on the board my opponent's Vulture wouldn't be able to kill it, so there is that. 

 

Dragoon my opponent deploying opposite from him too had him running up the battle field, and he made it there by turn three, but his lance got blown off so he kinda was useless. Still a fun model to have on the board, and having an actual fast moving unit was a change

 

Imperial Knight Paladin I had him make a beeline towards the enemy knight, surviving most of the firepower that would have killed skitarii dead. He got charged by the crusader and I had abysmal melee rolls so he missed most of the combats, only managing to kill the enemy knight when he blew up. Still, his stubbers made a squad of guardsmen run off the table!

 

 

All in all a 9-5 victory for kill points.

[MajorNese]

Did a 3-way battle yesterday, at 1250p. Opponents were Tau and Space Wolves. Until I was all but wiped out, I fought both armies at the same time, they didn't bother fighting each other.

 

2x 10 Vanguard, no upgrades. First squad advanced towards Tau, and wiped a ghost squad first turn. Drew fire from the other ghost squad and 2 squads of fire warriors. 4+/6++ held a lot more than my terminators usually do, and they continued to live until turn 3, drawing fire and decimating ghosts/fire warriors. Second squad held thunder wolf cavalry at bay, slightly decimating them, but getting wiped out in CC. All in all, 100p for such a unit is a bargain. They don't have a lot of versatility, but they force the enemy to deal with them, while being reasonably resilient. Ld9 and 4+/6++ are great, I'll build 2 more squads.

 

10 Vanguard, 3x Arc, Omnispex. Were supposed to run behind the bare vanguard and blow up vehicles. Bad luck, only vehicles in the game were a whirlwind and 2 piranha, always out of range. Killed TWC and grey hunters with rad carbines, died as speedbump to protect the Magos from a charge. Increasing the points cost by 50% was not exactly worth it, unless someone comes really close with vehicles, like LandRaiders. Arc is better on Breachers imho.

 

10 Ranger, Omnispex. Were the longer-ranged anti-4+ unit. Good thing, lots of 4+ with the Tau. Killed the upgraded sergeant of a fire warrior squad (don't know the name) with precision shots, decimated the rest of the squad, drove them off the board. Wounding on 3+, ignoring 4+ armour, and reducing the tree-cover was a great combination. Whittled down the second fire warrior squad, while the first vanguard squad was keeping them distracted, this combo worked out as intended. When the Farsight crisis squad came around, the rangers moved in rapid fire range and killed all drones in one salvo. The return fire killed them, but they easily pulled their weight, absorbing a lot of firepower.

 

5 Infiltrators, taser + flechette. Infiltrated to intercept the space wolves. First turn, they should have shot the 3 infiltrating wolf guard terminators (warlord trait infiltrate), but they were already wiped by grav destroyers. Killed 5/10 grey hunters who came in with a drop pod (flechette -> bad armour rolls), failed the charge, were charged and wiped by the remaining 5. All in all, a situational unit, considering the points cost.

 

Magos Dominus + 3 plasma destroyers. Pretty good combination. Dominus' volkite and plasma were 24" range, and the macrostubber was all but useless, so he could repair the plasma wounds. Plasma killed most of farsight's crisis companions, some thunderwolves, and some grey hunters. The servitors were whittled down by everything who tried to kill the Magos, but the last wound was enough to protect the Magos until his final-round charge into the grey hunters, and from wounds spilling over into the challenge. Magos challenged the SW HQ guy, survived a ridiculous amount of wounds (claws are AP3), the strength-enhancing canticle helped him kill the wolf HQ in the 2nd round of combat, while surviving the rest of the squad. For 105p, that guy is just badass, I guess I'll build another and use a regular FOC to run both.

 

3 grav destroyers. Killed the 3 infiltrating wolf termies with sheer overkill, died to whirlwind and drop-podding grey hunters. Definitely the killiest unit against MEQ/TEQ, but a huge fire magnet. Either play more, or plan to lose them quick.

 

3 arc breachers. First round, all but killed the whirlwind, 1HP left. Next round it drove out of range, preferring to shoot Tau instead. Arc didn't do much against 3+ armour, but reliably put a few wounds on the wolf cavalry. Died delaying a cavalry charge, with all those power fists/hammers they were sure to die. Soaked up quite a bit of firepower before. T5, 2W and 3+ are a great combo, even if the 36" range is rather suited for backfield work. I like this unit a lot, they are far superior in keeping vehicles at bay with that range and resiliency, compared to arc vanguard.

 

MVP was definitely the combo of front-rank bare vanguard and omnispex second-rank rangers. Rangers may be inferior on paper, but against 4+ armour and with distracting vanguard, they are great. Second MVP was the Magos, killing a CC wolf lord in CC while surviving his remaining squad is quite a feat. The plasma kataphron are also great, able to reliably wound anything in 24" range.

[Tiger9gamer]

Did a 3-way battle yesterday, at 1250p. Opponents were Tau and Space Wolves. Until I was all but wiped out, I fought both armies at the same time, they didn't bother fighting each other.

 

 

 

 

three way battles are hard, as almost always you focus one down until it dies. Good job fighting them off though! I have to disagree with you on the arc rifle vanguard, but then again my games usually have more vehicles in them, so to each tech his own I guess. Awesome to hear about the tech priest though. Did you give him a conversion field at all?

 

Also, how was it fighting the tau?

[MajorNese]

 

three way battles are hard, as almost always you focus one down until it dies.

 

I have to disagree with you on the arc rifle vanguard, but then again my games usually have more vehicles in them, so to each tech his own I guess.

 

Awesome to hear about the tech priest though. Did you give him a conversion field at all?

 

Also, how was it fighting the tau?

 

Well, I could test my army against 2 armies in the same time I would usually spend on testing it against one, so who cares...the Magos survived, that's all that counts on the long run.

 

I found the arc rifle was always of more use on a 42" threat range basis in case of the breachers, so I could lock down attack lanes in advance. The game that decided it for me was when I forced the enemy LandRaider to stay in his backfield behind a building, because there's only 1HP left (after one shooting phase) and the terminators wouldn't survive walking through the open. But yeah, to each his own.

 

The techpriest didn't have any upgrades, as the conversion field would have possibly blinded his unit in case of ranged attacks. Here, it wasn't necessary, as I precision-shot'ed the random thunder hammer guy in that unit, and the HQ guy only had AP3 weapons.

 

In case of the Tau, it was a new player, so no comparison to the usual 3-riptides-Dmissiles-formations-and-buffmander stuff. Facing fire warriors was manageable, but no one else plays them any more because they are manageable. Ghosts similarly, and Farsight + bodyguard killed 3/4 of the ranger squad before catching plasma culverins, and spent the rest of the game dodging the thunder wolf charge intended for my boss. A ghostkeel arrived the last turn we played, but only shot a TWC guy.

[Terminus]

Arc rifles on Vanguard (or Rangers) are great when you can borrow a transport. A full unit and 3 rifles is too much of an investment, as they will die after their alpha strike, but a min unit with pistol and 2 rifles (so 5 arc shots at rapid fire range) is 95 points. If you're going to footslog, I agree they are a bit of a waste. If your opponent has aggressive armour, they will be smart to kill the arc rifle squad before they get too close to them. If they have fire support armour in the backlines, you may never get close enough. In this sense, the breachers are better because they are tougher to take out and harder to keep away from.

 

I run the full ranger squad wirh 3 arc rifles in Convocation, and they get blown to bits before reaching arc money range more often than not.

 

You can't blind your own unit.

[MajorNese]

In case of transports, I'm currently trying to find something else than drop pods. Land Raiders and Storm Ravens are too expensive for a ~150p unit, but a valkyrie or vendetta would be great. Especially considering that the embarked unit can disembark in full flight, and a ranger squad even ignores the dangerous terrain test when scattering. The only non-dedicated valkyrie/vendetta is in the Astra Miliwhatnow Guard codex, Inquisition doesn't work (all dedicated for henchmen squads). Just not sure if I need a whole allied detachment, or just go unbound.

 

Also, in a pickup game scenario, playing both Cult and Skitarii is really a hassle, unless the other guy also plays them. The sheer number of special rules takes quite some time to explain, so I'l try to combine Skitarii with something more simple, like guard...

[Mushkilla]

The techpriest didn't have any upgrades, as the conversion field would have possibly blinded his unit in case of ranged attacks.

No chance of blinding your own unit. Under the blind special rule in the rulebook it specifically states that the unit that causes the blind test automatically passes the test.

 

The conversion field makes the dominus even more of a beast. I run him with plasma kataphrona too. I keep the phosphor blasters as they synergize well with plasma for reducing cover and are pretty handy for getting the dominus into assault. The electromancer canticles combined with a successful multi charge can be absolutely brutal.

[MagicHat]

 

The techpriest didn't have any upgrades, as the conversion field would have possibly blinded his unit in case of ranged attacks.

No chance of blinding your own unit. Under the blind special rule in the rulebook it specifically states that the unit that causes the blind test automatically passes the test.

 

The conversion field makes the dominus even more of a beast. I run him with plasma kataphrona too. I keep the phosphor blasters as they synergize well with plasma for reducing cover and are pretty handy for getting the dominus into assault. The electromancer canticles combined with a successful multi charge can be absolutely brutal.

 

 

You don't auto-pass the test, you just re-roll it if you fail.

[Tiger9gamer]

Maybe I just havn't played the arc rifles enough to see, but I'm sure I will see how it does in the future. I never tried the breachers though, So I cannot say how they would do based on personal experience.

 

from my standpoint, it's kinda wierd. For 5 points more than the breacher squad (assuming full squad of 10 with arc rifles and onmispex) you get 5 more wounds/bodies, a lot more anti-infantry shooting, a -1 to cover just for targeting, and a better ballistic skill that can get even better. Downsides are that the skitarii only have a 4+/6+, only 3 shots outside of rapid fire, and are T3.

 

Maybe I'm missing something? Maybe I have yet to seen the damage  that a heavy arc cannon will provide?

[Terminus]

 

 

The techpriest didn't have any upgrades, as the conversion field would have possibly blinded his unit in case of ranged attacks.

No chance of blinding your own unit. Under the blind special rule in the rulebook it specifically states that the unit that causes the blind test automatically passes the test.

 

The conversion field makes the dominus even more of a beast. I run him with plasma kataphrona too. I keep the phosphor blasters as they synergize well with plasma for reducing cover and are pretty handy for getting the dominus into assault. The electromancer canticles combined with a successful multi charge can be absolutely brutal.

 

 

You don't auto-pass the test, you just re-roll it if you fail.

 

 

 

Should the attacking unit hit themselves, we assume they are prepared and they automatically pass the test.

- 7th edition BRB

 

What you are thinking of is the special clause of the Conversion Field that states friendly units may re-roll this test. So this actually makes conversion fields even more awesome. The unit with the field passes automatically, and all nearby friendly units get to re-roll their test. Conversion fields are the bomb, and a nasty surprise for your opponent, as I learned by bringing a ton of them in Convocation.

[CommodusXIII]

The conversion field states that all units with D6" test as if they've been hit with Blind - not as if they've caused it.  "The bearer" is called out specifically as being the source, not the unit he's with.

[MithrilForge]

what he said

it's not as awesome as you think Terminus, there's always the chance your guys are going to be blinded too .

Mithril

[Terminus]

All units within 6" of the bearer must take a Blind test. The bearer is part of his unit. The unit causing the Blind test passes automatically. What is the problem?

 

This is the same kind of nonsense that has people thinking rad furnace lowers the toughness of friendly models, even though you can't be locked in combat with a friendly model.

[MajorNese]

from my standpoint, it's kinda wierd. For 5 points more than the breacher squad (assuming full squad of 10 with arc rifles and onmispex) you get 5 more wounds/bodies, a lot more anti-infantry shooting, a -1 to cover just for targeting, and a better ballistic skill that can get even better. Downsides are that the skitarii only have a 4+/6+, only 3 shots outside of rapid fire, and are T3.

 

Maybe I'm missing something? Maybe I have yet to seen the damage  that a heavy arc cannon will provide?

In my opinion, the guaranteed 2 shots on 36" range seal the deal. Makes shielding the unit easier, locks down multiple lines of approach, read: better deployment. Let's just compare it to tactical marines with bolters, and marines with heavy bolter. One needs to get really close, but can deal more damage in ideal circumstances, but is in CC range of anything that survives, or shields the target. The other sits back and can blaze away at anything in the general direction, without going toe to toe or redeploying. Just in this case, the backfield unit can still move and fire, while being especially resilient to typical anti-backfield firepower (HB and AC aren't AP3, missiles and lascannons don't even cause ID).

 

As we're here for gathering data, why not test both in the same game, and see which is more useful? I've played them side by side a few times, and the vanguard were always a hassle to position.

[Tiger9gamer]

 

from my standpoint, it's kinda wierd. For 5 points more than the breacher squad (assuming full squad of 10 with arc rifles and onmispex) you get 5 more wounds/bodies, a lot more anti-infantry shooting, a -1 to cover just for targeting, and a better ballistic skill that can get even better. Downsides are that the skitarii only have a 4+/6+, only 3 shots outside of rapid fire, and are T3.

 

Maybe I'm missing something? Maybe I have yet to seen the damage  that a heavy arc cannon will provide?

In my opinion, the guaranteed 2 shots on 36" range seal the deal. Makes shielding the unit easier, locks down multiple lines of approach, read: better deployment. Let's just compare it to tactical marines with bolters, and marines with heavy bolter. One needs to get really close, but can deal more damage in ideal circumstances, but is in CC range of anything that survives, or shields the target. The other sits back and can blaze away at anything in the general direction, without going toe to toe or redeploying. Just in this case, the backfield unit can still move and fire, while being especially resilient to typical anti-backfield firepower (HB and AC aren't AP3, missiles and lascannons don't even cause ID).

 

As we're here for gathering data, why not test both in the same game, and see which is more useful? I've played them side by side a few times, and the vanguard were always a hassle to position.

 

I would but I don't have the cult book yet ._. I'm going to get it soon, and probably a box of them, then I will see how they work. Who knows I may like them more than the vanguard! I agree the positioning is a hassle for them, but still they can put the hurt on vehicles... And my dice are very bad so I need 2+ to hit most games.

[Tiger9gamer]

Sorry for double post, but I have more data to upload! For the Forge! 

 

Played, for the 1st time, an unbound list against a mech heavy imperial guard player at 1,000 points. I had a blast while doing so too! The list I used in short was

 

x2 vanguard squads with x3 arc rifles, omnispex in a blood angel rhino

 

x1 vanguard squad with 1 plasma carbine and omnispex in a blood angel las/plas razorback

 

x1 ranger squad with omni-spex

 

x1 onager dunecrawler

 

x1 Taser Dragoon.

 

Tech Priest Dominus with conversion field, eradication beamer and skryer skull

________________________________

 

 

 

1st Skitarii Arc rifle Vanguard squad in rhino: I had the misfortune of going second, so their rhino got immobilized by a multi-laser turn 1, but The squad managed to get out and melt a nearby chimera with it's arc rifles in my turn, getting me 3 victory points for destroying a vehicle (objective cards + first blood)  and after that turn they got shot at by a chimera, lost four guys, but managed to survive and kill a full guardsmen squad to 2 men by themselves. They were troopers through and through.

 

2nd Skitarii Arc rifle Vanguard squad in rhino: They faired better than their brothers, getting to mid field before their rhino immobilised itself, but still managed to hold their own and take very minimal casualties. They killed a guardsmen squad till three guys were left, and helped destroy a chimera or two, and managed to wing a hovering vendetta! Again a very nice showing for them.

 

Ranger Squad: they were really just point filler, and before they did anything they had a grey knight squad land in front of them and wiped them out to one guy. One guy still managed to cap a strike squad member, and rest of the game stood on a bunker roof holding an objective. 

 

Razorback plasma vanguard with Dominus: One of my MVP's of the game, as the razor back stayed alive and added fire support, even causing one guardsmen squad to run and blowing up the 2nd to last chimera. My Squad was fairly kick ass, killing a command squad till 1 guy with sheer weight of fire (thank you eradication beamer) and survived two turns of almost everyone shooting them thanks to my tanking dominus. Dominus was himself killed most of the guardsmen he shot at with his pistols, and luckily survived a las cannon hit to the face with a conversion field. Last turn he focused his pistol on the warlord and turned him into a bloody mess of torn clothes, so all in all a good fighter. Squad did well too, absorbing some fire coming his way and helping to kill a full guardsmen squad.

 

Neutron Onager: Earned it's points back turn one by vaporizing four strike marines and the accompanying librarian with one shot, and spent the rest of the game providing fire support, killing chimeras while standing on top of a ruin. Much better showing than my last game! Wish I had an icarius one too to shoot at the vendetta.

 

Taser Dragoon: Charrrrge!!!!! this bugger helped turn an entire flank, running down a guardsmen squad and a command squad easily with it's doubled initiative. Had some bad rolls on the lance though. It also wrecked a chimera last turn and would have taken down it's squad too! I like it a lot for what it does! Wish I had a second one.

 

Overall, the rhinos did their jobs by providing a target for the heavier guns of my opponent, and adding an extra shield the skitarii needed to help last. I think I may have found my favorite list for them! In the future I plan on using a larger plasma squad (9 guys, 2 cavileers and the dominus) to help take things down, but overall I'm very happy with this.

[Terminus]

Skitarii really need some transports. :(

[Tiger9gamer]

I 100% agree. A mechanized Mechanicus list is something that should not be only available from shinannegans

[MajorNese]

And the novel "Cybernetica" even has Skitarii deploying from valkyries...at least they're non-dedicated transports, so allies are an option.

[Tiger9gamer]

And the novel "Cybernetica" even has Skitarii deploying from valkyries...at least they're non-dedicated transports, so allies are an option.

True, but I at least want my "cheater list" to follow a theme, so no non-mechanicus units outside of vehicles, and even then just the ones that make sense (like bringing a whirlwind or razorback for more support.)

[Terminus]

I am getting ready to dust off my Imperial Guard with the next campaign book promising some new formations for them. I am likely going to bring along a couple of Ranger squads loaded out with arc rifles to ride in my Vendettas. Move through Cover means I can airdrop them with impunity. :)

[Tiger9gamer]

Alright, Uploading more Data for my Unbound Rhino Rush List. Second verse same as the first, except this time I used a thunderfire cannon in place of a ranger squad, as I needed some more anti infantry for my opponent: The HH Solar Auxilria with a CHOOM Knight Senshal.

x2 Arc Rifle Vanguard squads in Rhinos: Lumping them together because one didn't do a ton this game, only killing the imperial Knight. the Table had a huge amount of terrain at my opponent's request (2 ruins, 2 bastions a shrine of the aquilla and some fantasy terrain) So both rhinos moved along towards the center and left of the board where the knight was. One squad got out to shoot at a 20 man las rifle section and killed 3 (really good armor saves!) while the other baited the knight. The plan worked as the next turn the knight charged the squad's rhino and blew it up (killing 4 in the process) and the other squad got killed to 4, keeping two arc rifles and the omni-spex. Next turn the survivors all turned and blew up the knight with combined arc rifle fire and the knight failing all of the saves, the explosion killing the rest of one squad. The 4 vanguard left stood on top of it's blown up rhino to kill the last remaining Las rifles.

Plasma Caviler squad in Razorback with the Dominus Warlord : These guys did work, let me tell you. The razorback moved up towards my opponent's right flank of the gunline and disembarked at around turn 3, killing a good chunk of a 15 man las rifle section by themselves ( down to 4 guys if I remember correctly? his dice rolls were amazing for armor saves) and killing them the next turn. Dominus was a boss, taking fire like a champ and repairing himself at least once. Razorback was also a very good support unit. Also dominus scryer skull helped to take down the knight (aka the only opponent tank)

Taser Walker: Got himself killed for first blood because I moved him in the wrong way with a run. Blast Chargers are nasty! they also killed a rhino this game too.

Onager Neutron: Delt a few hull points against the knight, but it's flare shield was bloody amazing at keeping the damage low, and each time I Glanced it, it saved with a 3 plus invuln. Also killed two Advisors to a command squad and made it hide the rest of the game.

Thunderfire cannon: did well as usual! Killed a ton of lasriflers with it's bombardments even if I could not see most guys I was shooting at, and really helped cut down on the numbers. Felt a little bit cheesey for taking him though.

The game ended in a kill point loss for me because He had so many men packed in a few squads, and we ran out of time, but i'm not too miffed about it. Last turn all he had left were three guardsmen hiding in a ruin with my army closing in. Still, Rhinos were a bit of a hindrence as they gave him extra VP's, but I cannot imagine what it would be like to walk under intense fire like I faced. Also, my Skitarii thought they were wearing terminator armor and kept failing their armor saves. Time for a visit to the Recycling Factory.

[Terminus]

How did the Scryer Skull help out take out the Knight when you killed it with Haywire? You don't get re-rolls with arc rifles because you're not rolling to penetrate.