Sith’ari Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Afternoon all! As the topic title states, what background pieces do you consider essential reading for any sisters player? I'm currently trying to gather as much info and inspiring pieces on the Imperial Church and the Sororitas as I can, thanks to the realisation that other than the current e'dex and what I've overheard over my gaming career, I really don't have much detail on the two. Plus a collection of inspiring books to dive into when needed/bored is always good! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Codex: Sisters of Battle - the Second Edition one. Its a goldmine. I can't really recommend any of the Black Library stuff. James Swallow's writing is mediocre and his protagonist is really bad at being a Battle Sister. Not to mention the incredibly lax discipline of the Order in those books and the completely unneeded Girls Love angle. A lot of people put stock in Blood of Asaheim, but that book does nothing more than make the Sisters look completely incompetent - literally everything they do in the book is prompted by the Space Wolves, up to and including actually adhering to their own standard operating practice. Oh, except for the traitor Battle Sister. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/Smilies/wallsmiley_zpsnjcfauan.gif They have a good showing in Codex: Grey Knights (the most recent one), but its only a short narrative and not worth the cost of the rest of the codex. Daemonifuge is pretty hard to get hold of these days, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith’ari Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Ahaha! I've heard that the BL sisters novels were bad, but I hadn't realised that they were traitor sisters bad! Right so thats the second ed codex on ze list and Im fairly sure that I've seen one around for sale on amazon (top tip for those seeking old codices, check out amazon's marketplace.) Any of the FFG sourcebooks or old white dwarf's worth picking up Miko? Or any of the old artbooks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palin2222 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I liked Faith and Fire, Hammer and Anvil, and Red and Black. I found the stories to be enjoyable and well written. Red and Black (the audio book) doesn't even have a space marine in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Some people swear by the FFG stuff for Sisters. Most of those people... are not Sisters fans. The FFG fluff gives Sisters literal spellcasting, civilian-grade equipment, forces them to earn their helmets in battle and notes that they can "fight traitor guardsmen and sometimes even Orks." Of the James Swallow stuff, Red and Black is the best, lacking some of the more heinous crimes of the later books. Its also the only one that shows Miriya as a sensible, loyal and devoted Daughter of the Emperor, as opposed to the loose cannon heroine who gets rewarded for breaking orders, going rogue and getting her Sisters killed in the later books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigrid Of Asgaror Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I found the James Swallow books and audio book to be entertaining, but not particularly realistic. Creative liberties were taken, which is okay for story writing, just less so for realism/fluff. I think I need to get my hands on the second edition codex, sounds like an interesting read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 It details all through the founding of the Ecclesiarchy, the Age of Apostasy, the foundation of the Sisters of Battle. It also has a huge section on Bucharis' reign of terror and the reason the Wolves hate the Ecclesiarchy. Also background information on some of the biggest badasses in the setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigrid Of Asgaror Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I really didn't realise there was something like that for the Sisters. Already looking for how to get one now XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Its hard to come by - there's also some information in White Dwarf #293 (UK), although that was attached to the Witch Hunter codex, so some of the fluff is outdated (the Convocation of Nephilim it mentions, for example, has been retconned out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigrid Of Asgaror Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I must admit I am pretty hype now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith’ari Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 Same! Between these books and the art of sisters thread, I'm all fired up. Now I just have to escape from work and get back to my paint desk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I'll echo the 2nd codex recommendation. Most of the codices, even the Chapter Approved version, have reliable lore tho you will have to overlook the Inquisition bits in Witch Hunters. I liked the James Swallow books but only if you look at the big picture. Individually the characters acted as if they were women in the Imperial Guard. I mean there is Miriya, the independent free thinker from F&F etc and then there is Sister Praxedes the eternal badass from C:SoB 2nd E who waded into the middle of the Tyranid swarm killed a hive tyrant just to buy time for others to evacuate. If you have not seen the Sisters of Battle pages on 40K Lexicanium, I sugguest you start there. It is a very good secondary source. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adepta_Sororitas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitnam Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I myself really enjoyed C: Witch Hunters, which was my forst 40k book I ever read. As such I alsways asscoiate the Sororitas with the Hereticus. I must ask, where is the source that retconned the Convocation of Nephillim? I cant find anything online saying the CoN is not canon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Orlock Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 ... I cant find anything online saying the CoN is not canon Nor are you likely to, 40k isn't starwars. The canon is rather more flexible and leads to endless consternation as to what's more canonical. So, when someone tells you that something isn't canon, but you found it in a book you're left with a case where they probably have a different source that directly contradicts the one you've referenced. Alternatively, they have a source that's older and closer to the original author's one true vision, and is therefore more canonical. Understanding the background in 40k is better compare to understanding a real world historical event. Real historians form their thesis by reviewing a panoply of evidence and building a theory that appears to jive with the lot. The canonicity of 40k is similar, all the fluff is stuff for you to review and may be biased secondary sources. It's up to you to find your own truth, 'cause the game doesn't spoon-feed it to you. As I imagine the setting, the warrior-nuns are in frequent cahoots with the inquisition as it leads into more places where they get to burn stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The original fluff never mentioned the Ordo Hereticus - they had't been invented yet. C:WH entertained a relationship and gave us the first real information on the Ordo, as well as details of its founding during M36 as the Adeptus Terra's watchdog on the Adeptus Ministorum. Chapter Approved: Codex Sisters of Battle again gave no mention of the Ordo Hereticus. Warhammer 40,000: Sixth Edition mentioned the relationship between the Adepta Sororitas and the Ordo Hereticus by briefly stating that the two organisations "maintain a close alliance of convenience". Codex: Adepta Sororitas makes no mention of the Ordo Hereticus. Codex: Inquisition makes no mention of the Adepta Sororitas, and only touches on them when it mentions that the Ordo is tasked with ensuring thatWars of Faith to not exceed their mandate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Orlock Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The chapter approved list predates 'Dex:Witchhunters and probably falls under the hadn't been invented yet category. 'A close alliance of convenience' sounds analogous to 'being in cahoots'. It's also worth noting that the Hunter 'dex's (demon and witch) were contemporaneous in the studio with Gav's Inquisitor game and that the whole studio at the time was on a bit of an Inquisition high. Later designer note articles and interviews revealed that they sought to shoehorn the inquisition into existing projects just to drive model and fluff generation. Lamentably, this surge ended before we got the rumoured 'Dex:Alienhunters to finish the trifecta. It was also immediately prior to an era where the design mandate was that each book had to essentially stand alone in a marked and sharp contrast to the strategy pursued in early third of supplemental 'dex's. It was felt that there wasn't enough material to make stand alone inquisition lists for the then current state of the game. During late third and fourth it was found that designing backwards compatibility was needlessly onerous. The Hunterbooks were amongst the last to make references to external documents for some time. This brings us to the modern modular state of releases where I'm given to understand they seldom cross reference except in those cases where the books are expected to be soon superseded by a combined version or where one is a specific supplement to the other. Still, scant mention doesn't specifically repudiate the connection, but it probably should colour interpretations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitnam Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The way I see it, the old fluff never was retconned. Unless new fluff comes along that directly contradicts the CoN, I'd say the relationship still exists in canon. I believe the relationship is even mentioned in a FFG sourcebook but I can understand not accepting FFG as a good source. Even without the Convocation, I find that Sisters and some OH Inquisitors make sense as allies too. It's been a while since I read Witch Hunters but the relationship between the two seemed much more informal then between the other Chambers. As far as sisters reading, did the Shield of Baal material have anything worthwhile for Sisters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The chapter approved list predates 'Dex:Witchhunters and probably falls under the hadn't been invented yet category. Ah, sorry, I meant the 2011 one. I'd forgotten about the earlier one completely. ^^; Still, I would argue that "maintaining a close alliance" does directly invalidate anything saying they have a formal master/servant relationship such as being a Chamber Militant. If you serve someone, you don't ally with them. You just do what they tell you. Shield of Baal - I haven't read it, aside from the novella (Devourer?), but I'm told the first book has lots of CMoAs for the Sisterhood, including at one point a formation "unleashing more bolter fire than an entire chapter of Space Marines". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaemie Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Trying not to be too spoileriffic here. Shield of Baal: Leviathan presents the Sororitas as a worthy, competent and capable fighting force, led by a tactically shrewd Canoness. The Sisters do all the work in their sector of the campaign for the entirety of the first book, and for the second book (Exterminatus) they remain a viable fighting force working alongside the Flesh Tearers as equals on the field of battle. In my opinion it doesn't really add much to the background of the Sororitas as a whole, but delivers some nice spolight personalities and stuff for individual Sisters and Sororitas vehicles involved in the fighting, and their treatment is about as good as anybody could have asked of GW in the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitnam Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Hmm seems like SoB might be a good read (and such a coincidental acronym!). Some more 'personal' background seems just as good as important as big sweeping histories. I was really hoping not long ago that the Sisters get covered in an Imperial Armour campaign book just because Forgeworld doea a great job giving niche forces premium treatment. With Horus Heresy going strong I dont think we'll be seeing that anyday soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTalos Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Trying not to be too spoileriffic here. Shield of Baal: Leviathan presents the Sororitas as a worthy, competent and capable fighting force, led by a tactically shrewd Canoness. The Sisters do all the work in their sector of the campaign for the entirety of the first book, and for the second book (Exterminatus) they remain a viable fighting force working alongside the Flesh Tearers as equals on the field of battle. In my opinion it doesn't really add much to the background of the Sororitas as a whole, but delivers some nice spolight personalities and stuff for individual Sisters and Sororitas vehicles involved in the fighting, and their treatment is about as good as anybody could have asked of GW in the last decade. Having read both books, this resumes it pretty well, and it is hard to keep it un-spoilered. Due to such, my additional comments will go in a spoiler tag just in case. As has been said, they are portrayed as one of the sternest fighting forces of the campaign, starting with less numbers than most of the other planets, and ending with more left than any of the other planets... Also as above, the second book has them on equals with the Flesh Tearers, and, against my expectations, do not get any backlash when the Flesh Tearers go over the edge. IIRC some even survive the onslaugth in the company of the Flesh Tearers. They're just a bit confused when the Marines run off into the distance, Berserk mode on... Hmm seems like SoB might be a good read (and such a coincidental acronym!). Some more 'personal' background seems just as good as important as big sweeping histories. I was really hoping not long ago that the Sisters get covered in an Imperial Armour campaign book just because Forgeworld doea a great job giving niche forces premium treatment. With Horus Heresy going strong I dont think we'll be seeing that anyday soon However i have direct word of mouth from them that "their own version" are coming: Siters of Silence in book 8 or 9, he told me the whole list last year but I was too absent-minded to remember anything else than "that's really cool but at least another 2-3 years down the line" This was in reply to me pretty much asking "Y no Sister stuf" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitnam Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Hmm Book 8 could be next year considering they did 2 books last year. I'm realllllly excited for SoS to get some love, as they always capture my attention in BL novels. I'm kinda wondering if a true SoB update might tie them to the Sisters of Silence. I'm not saying its likely but remember the last time an older range got a total update (5th DEldar and Necrons), which added tons of new fluff and heavily retconned the Necrons, I could see aome major changes for good or worse in a big update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 A studio quote has put the Sisters of Silence as having vanished by .M32, while the Sisters of Battle weren't a galactic force until late .M36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 This is something that always bugged me about 30K players. Silent Sisters are not Sisters of Battle. That's like comparing Grey Knights to Black Templars. They have the same gender so they should be just the same, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTalos Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 A studio quote has put the Sisters of Silence as having vanished by .M32, while the Sisters of Battle weren't a galactic force until late .M36. Curious where that studio quote is found? Lexicanum says "unknown" This is something that always bugged me about 30K players. Silent Sisters are not Sisters of Battle. That's like comparing Grey Knights to Black Templars. They have the same gender so they should be just the same, right? The link (to me anyway) is not in the sex of the warrior, but rather in the duties performed and 10 000 years of "unknown". The very last passage of the Lexicanum: "some fans believe they still man the Blackships, whereas others believe they were decimated protecting the Emperor's secret project at the height of the Heresy and were either disbanded or incorporated into the fledgling Inquisition." The linking that i see between the 2 Orders is this: -Who guards the black ships? -Who has Power Armour while not being a Space Marine? -Who hates psykers? -Who defends the emperor, possibly more loyally than any other Faction? Now answer the above in 30K terms and 40K terms and tell me there is not a possible link? The fluff is non-existent, so i say pretty much make it up My own views: I do not see why the remnant of the Sisters of Silence orders, 10 000 years later, lost the "null" tradition and were chosen by Vandire? I mean, (Lexicanum): "An order known as the "Daughters of the Emperor", an all-female cult dedicated to worship of the Emperor, had been discovered on San Leor by members of the Ecclesiarchy." That sounds A LOT like Sisters of silence who just lost the Null trait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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