Dark Angels rumors. update: Codex leaks, pg 28

[SvenONE]

I've been going over the leaks and so far I'm really stoked! Not much changed from my main lists, everything seems to just get slotted into either the DW or RW Detachments.

The way I'm reading Dedicated Transports (Landraiders) is that they should be able to Deepstrike! In the Deathwing Strike Force states: All members of this Detachment much have either the Deathwing special rule or be dedicated transports. * emphasis mine.

Then is says: all units must Deepstrike.

I don't see anywhere that prevents us from Deepstriking a Landraider as a dedicated Transport! Can't say that it doesn't have "Deepstrike" special rule, as neither does Belial, DW Termies or Knights...

Deathwing special rule only confers Hatres and Fearless....not Deepstrike.

Thoughts?

That's because TDA is what grants the Deep Strike USR.

If you go the Buy it at the same time as the termie armour we might get away with it, but I feel that they intended the termie armour to replace things as usual then have new options with regard to weapons.

I might try it your way and see if I get dreadsocked by my mates

I think that might be the beaten down Dark Angel talking, so used to seeing things that are too good to be true. But I really don't see anything stopping the logic I proposed.

I do agree that it isn't entirely clear.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Edited above, I like your way better :D

[Stoic Raptor]

 

The fact the storm shield is there by itself indicates that you can buy it no matter what, it doesn't replace anything.  

 

I know the Melee Weapons entry says you need to trade your power weapon for it, but we aren't buying it using that bullet point, we're taking it directly.

 

 

This is correct.  A Company Master can buy a storm shield independently of his Terminator armor or weaponry.  He doesn't have to give that up to get the Terminator Armor.  

 

He technically even gets to keep the storm bolter.  It's a simple, 135 point unit.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yup, all clear now.

Sword, Shield and storm bolter on a Master it is :)

[Kr80gZ]

I've been going over the leaks and so far I'm really stoked! Not much changed from my main lists, everything seems to just get slotted into either the DW or RW Detachments.

The way I'm reading Dedicated Transports (Landraiders) is that they should be able to Deepstrike! In the Deathwing Strike Force states: All members of this Detachment much have either the Deathwing special rule or be dedicated transports. * emphasis mine.

Then is says: all units must Deepstrike.

I don't see anywhere that prevents us from Deepstriking a Landraider as a dedicated Transport! Can't say that it doesn't have "Deepstrike" special rule, as neither does Belial, DW Termies or Knights...

Deathwing special rule only confers Hatres and Fearless....not Deepstrike.

Thoughts?

That's because TDA is what grants the Deep Strike USR.

Oh... yeah. Thanks for that.

So you can only have a HQ in Terminator Armour for that Formation, then, as units need something that confers Deepstrike?

[aura_enchanted]

Yup, all clear now.

Sword, Shield and storm bolter on a Master it is :)

and you can then swap the sb for the for smiter or the lions roar or a combi

 

And you can replace his sword with the appropriate weapons options.

 

And then laugh as your enemy attempts to deal with this 3++ save and all kinds of nonsense for weapons rules.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I am going to call my TDA Master Beminus, as for one less attack than Belial he is 55 points cheaper ;)

[3DJutsu]

Speaking of Belial, that brings me to his trait 'The Hunt'.

 

Will this trait affect grenades tossed? Seems like a small thing but having my warlord toss a cover ignoring grenade right before an assault would be highly amusing. Even more so should I chose to plop him on my Aegis line.

[Solrac]

The Hunt would apply to any shooting attack made by the character. Unfortunately Belial doesn't have grenades. No pockets in that Termie armour of his.

[aura_enchanted]

The Hunt would apply to any shooting attack made by the character. Unfortunately Belial doesn't have grenades. No pockets in that Termie armour of his.

unlike the glorious company master who can buy melta bombs :P

[3DJutsu]

Of course not, but if it was rolled...

 

=P

 

Or if Azrael made it into my list for whatever reason. Sammael is the one I would have loved to have had it though, ah well.

[JJD]

 

Yup, all clear now.

Sword, Shield and storm bolter on a Master it is :)

and you can then swap the sb for the for smiter or the lions roar or a combi

 

And you can replace his sword with the appropriate weapons options.

 

And then laugh as your enemy attempts to deal with this 3++ save and all kinds of nonsense for weapons rules.

Time to look throught the bits box for an appropriate wrist mounted firearm

[twopounder]

Yup, all clear now.

Sword, Shield and storm bolter on a Master it is

If you give him a storm shield, you might as well give him the relic blade. You can call it a heavenfall blade if you want to, but since you can't get +1a from the storm shield already, might as well increase the offensive too.

Speaking of Belial, that brings me to his trait 'The Hunt'.

Will this trait affect grenades tossed? Seems like a small thing but having my warlord toss a cover ignoring grenade right before an assault would be highly amusing. Even more so should I chose to plop him on my Aegis line.

Grenade is a shooting attack. Also, it would apply to any weapon he mans, such as quad lasers.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I was thinking that too, but didn't feel like amending my posts :P

Beminus will be an excellent cheap DW Master with two min Scouts for the CAD including my mech DW force. The points saved this edition about covers my old army. Free scouts ;)

[Stoic Raptor]

And to be honest, a barebones CAD is cheaper than a Land Raider anyhow, right?

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yup, crisis averted

My old army with Belial and three DW type squads in LRCs/LRs cost 1805. Beminus with three DW type squads in the same vehicles with two scout squads with sniper and ML cost 1790. Might not be pure, but that's a win on the tabletop!!! (even concidering what was lost, Ven LRs, Obj Sec etc)

[mika_angelus]

I love the addition of Relic Blade to our armory.

 

Finally we can take the DV Company Master with a good weapon loadout.

[shabbadoo]

Last bit: Our big Lion's blade detachment literally has no way to field all the units in our codex, its impossible to field a RW command squad or black knights in any capacity. This seems like another mistake as literally every other post-necron detachment of this style has at least some way to field all that is in your codex, even if it was very tough or limited. This is just flat out impossible in this codex, we literally can't use our own units in our own unique detachment......

C'mon, be realistic here. The Lion's Blade is a *Battle Company* Detachment, not a "Greatest Hits of the Chapter" Detachment. Exactly what Command Squad did you expect to be featured in such a Detachment? You might as well be saying "I am outraged- OUTRAGED, SIR!- that a Company Command Squad cannot be featured in the Ravenwing and Deathwing Strike Forces!" The focus is on the *Battle Company*, and all of the other choices are, your guessed it, auxilliaries for them. If you want to pretty much have your cake and eat it too, run a very small Lion's Blade Detachment and a small Ravenwing Strike Force Detachment together, which fulfills your desire (I guess). Or run a CAD army which can do the same. Or run a Ravening Strikeforce with allied Greenwing CAD. Or - GASP!!!- go Unbound. A small-sized Lion's Blade Detachment only comes in at around 600 or so points, so there is plenty of room to back it up with a Ravenwing Strike Force Detachment. The Detachments are not about doing whatever you want to, but about featuring a particular (and realistic) army theme. All of the Detachments accomplish this very well (except for the additional HQs fiasco thing for RW and DW ), and are very much in the proper character.

It is a bit much to feel slighted that you cannot ramrod the flagship unit from one themed force into another force with a completely different theme. I think it is somewhat generous that Sammael and Belial are even offered up as choices for what are auxilliary forces for The Lion's Blade Detachment - a duty that would normally fall to the Company Chaplain or to an ancillary HQ like an Interrogator-Chaplain or Librarian. Those guys showing up is like Churchill asking for a little bit of back-up, and he looks outside to see that Roosevelt and Mackenzie King have shown up personally leading the Devil's Brigade! What I really think it is all about is that the Companies are intended to be special (obviously), and will simply not be handed out to other main forces as auxilliaries. Such units will stay with the main Company force, such as a Ravenwing Strike Force Detachment, where (surprise, surprise) they are a focal point, and we'll note that not single Greenwing Formation, let alone a Company Command Squad, can be taken as an option in that Detachment (perhaps somebody, soemwhere, is pissed off about that? ). If you really must field a Ravenwing Command Squad among your Greenwing, you still have four ways to do so. Are GW really jerks because you can't do it in a 5th way that is specifically out of character for what the Detachment represents? I wish this was the only type of complaint people could make about any codex, let alone this one.

[shabbadoo]

Last bit: Our big Lion's blade detachment literally has no way to field all the units in our codex, its impossible to field a RW command squad or black knights in any capacity. This seems like another mistake as literally every other post-necron detachment of this style has at least some way to field all that is in your codex, even if it was very tough or limited. This is just flat out impossible in this codex, we literally can't use our own units in our own unique detachment......

C'mon, be realistic here. The Lion's Blade is a *Battle Company* Detachment, not a "Greatest Hits of the Chapter" Detachment. Exactly what Command Squad did you expect to be featured in such a Detachment? You might as well be saying "I am outraged- OUTRAGED, SIR!- that a Company Command Squad cannot be featured in the Ravenwing and Deathwing Strike Forces!" The focus is on the *Battle Company*, and all of the other choices are, your guessed it, auxilliaries for them. If you want to pretty much have your cake and eat it too, run a very small Lion's Blade Detachment and a small Ravenwing Strike Force Detachment together, which fulfills your desire (I guess). Or run a CAD army which can do the same. Or run a Ravening Strikeforce with allied Greenwing CAD. Or - GASP!!!- go Unbound. A small-sized Lion's Blade Detachment only comes in at around 600 or so points, so there is plenty of room to back it up with a Ravenwing Strike Force Detachment. The Detachments are not about doing whatever you want to, but about featuring a particular (and realistic) army theme. All of the Detachments accomplish this very well (except for the additional HQs fiasco thing for RW and DW ), and are very much in the proper character.

It is a bit much to feel slighted that you cannot ramrod the flagship unit from one themed force into another force with a completely different theme. I think it is somewhat generous that Sammael and Belial are even offered up as choices for what are auxilliary forces for The Lion's Blade Detachment - a duty that would normally fall to the Company Chaplain or to an ancillary HQ like an Interrogator-Chaplain or Librarian. Those guys showing up is like Churchill asking for a little bit of back-up, and he looks outside to see that Roosevelt and Mackenzie King have shown up personally leading the Devil's Brigade! What I really think it is all about is that the Companies are intended to be special (obviously), and will simply not be handed out to other main forces as auxilliaries. Such units will stay with the main Company force, such as a Ravenwing Strike Force Detachment, where (surprise, surprise) they are a focal point, and we'll note that not single Greenwing Formation, let alone a Company Command Squad, can be taken as an option in that Detachment (perhaps somebody, soemwhere, is pissed off about that? ). If you really must field a Ravenwing Command Squad among your Greenwing, you still have four ways to do so. Are GW really jerks because you can't do it in a 5th way that is specifically out of character for what the Detachment represents? I wish this was the only type of complaint people could make about any codex, let alone this one.

And to be honest, a barebones CAD is cheaper than a Land Raider anyhow, right?

Yep. 2 x 5 Scouts and a Librarian for 175 points.

[mika_angelus]

I think they really didn't want to give black knights the option to fire overwatch on full BS. Thats why they are not in any of the formations.

.

[Karhedron]

And to be honest, a barebones CAD is cheaper than a Land Raider anyhow, right?

I am seeing a lot of mileage in adding a small CAD to our big Detachment(s). It also provides a handy place to put any flyers without having to Reserve the entire Ravenwing. ​

[Loar]

Last bit: Our big Lion's blade detachment literally has no way to field all the units in our codex, its impossible to field a RW command squad or black knights in any capacity. This seems like another mistake as literally every other post-necron detachment of this style has at least some way to field all that is in your codex, even if it was very tough or limited. This is just flat out impossible in this codex, we literally can't use our own units in our own unique detachment......

C'mon, be realistic here. The Lion's Blade is a *Battle Company* Detachment, not a "Greatest Hits of the Chapter" Detachment. Exactly what Command Squad did you expect to be featured in such a Detachment? You might as well be saying "I am outraged- OUTRAGED, SIR!- that a Company Command Squad cannot be featured in the Ravenwing and Deathwing Strike Forces!" The focus is on the *Battle Company*, and all of the other choices are, your guessed it, auxilliaries for them. If you want to pretty much have your cake and eat it too, run a very small Lion's Blade Detachment and a small Ravenwing Strike Force Detachment together, which fulfills your desire (I guess). Or run a CAD army which can do the same. Or run a Ravening Strikeforce with allied Greenwing CAD. Or - GASP!!!- go Unbound. A small-sized Lion's Blade Detachment only comes in at around 600 or so points, so there is plenty of room to back it up with a Ravenwing Strike Force Detachment. The Detachments are not about doing whatever you want to, but about featuring a particular (and realistic) army theme. All of the Detachments accomplish this very well (except for the additional HQs fiasco thing for RW and DW ), and are very much in the proper character.

It is a bit much to feel slighted that you cannot ramrod the flagship unit from one themed force into another force with a completely different theme. I think it is somewhat generous that Sammael and Belial are even offered up as choices for what are auxilliary forces for The Lion's Blade Detachment - a duty that would normally fall to the Company Chaplain or to an ancillary HQ like an Interrogator-Chaplain or Librarian. Those guys showing up is like Churchill asking for a little bit of back-up, and he looks outside to see that Roosevelt and Mackenzie King have shown up personally leading the Devil's Brigade! What I really think it is all about is that the Companies are intended to be special (obviously), and will simply not be handed out to other main forces as auxilliaries. Such units will stay with the main Company force, such as a Ravenwing Strike Force Detachment, where (surprise, surprise) they are a focal point, and we'll note that not single Greenwing Formation, let alone a Company Command Squad, can be taken as an option in that Detachment (perhaps somebody, soemwhere, is pissed off about that? ). If you really must field a Ravenwing Command Squad among your Greenwing, you still have four ways to do so. Are GW really jerks because you can't do it in a 5th way that is specifically out of character for what the Detachment represents? I wish this was the only type of complaint people could make about any codex, let alone this one.

This whole rant of yours might hold water if not for the fact you can house the DW command squad and DW knights into a lion's blade no problem, everything you just said about ravenwing go and substitute deathwing, it doesn't make any sense now. It is literally ONLY black knights and their command squad that cannot be used in this, everything else in the whole codex fits in there somewhere, same as all the other predecessor post-necron codex's, thats the point Im making.

This detachment is suppose to be able to build the army you want while still being fluffy, as has been the case in literally every other codex's 'decurion' detachment, so far we are the only ones that cannot. The codex SM "battle company" is basically identical to this in theory as you postulate, and they have the ability to use their whole codex in one way or the other no problem.

[Loar]

I think they really didn't want to give black knights the option to fire overwatch on full BS. Thats why they are not in any of the formations.

.

 

But a dev squad full of grave cannons is? Or a ravenwing support squadron 24inch range full BS overwatch on any unit? It still goes away if the unit jinks, i don't see it being any worse than 20 full BS grav cannon with grave amp shots.  Thats a dead wraithknight without having to do anything.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Mmmmm, Devastator overwatch on full BS...

Question then is, does this over-ride the usual restrictions on overwatch? No blast weapons, and all that? I'm thinking not, since it doesn't mention it either way, but it'd make for a lot of fun.

[Loar]

Mmmmm, Devastator overwatch on full BS...

Question then is, does this over-ride the usual restrictions on overwatch? No blast weapons, and all that? I'm thinking not, since it doesn't mention it either way, but it'd make for a lot of fun.

Nah you are still firing overwatch, just at full BS, and overwatch specifically has special rules for blasts and templates, mainly you can't usse blasts at all and use the wall of death rule for templates. Still a grav cannon is just that much better now on DA as a result.