Epher Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I am working on my Land Raider Crusader for the ETL. I seriously under estimated how much time it would take me to assemble the model. There are so many sprue bits to clean up and some of the pieces did not line up nicely either. I am now thinking of the paint scheme and I am not sure how to paint my multi-melta gunner. So the big question is... who drives and mans the Deathwing vehicles? Since it is from the First Company, would they not be veterans? Or does the first company have a transport division? My thoughts is that they would have to be vets since, if my knowledge is correct, all those in the Deathwing are a part of the Inner Circle. The last thing you would want is to be on the hunt of the Fallen and have your driver or gunner find out something they shouldn't and then Ichabod Whatshisname would have to kill them and then get out of his terminator armour and drive the Land Raider. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 DW veichles crew? DW marines ofc... However DW members are not part of the Inner Circle... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4085577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Hm, I always imaged it was that guy from Crazy Taxi. Or in this case, the Grim Taxi :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4085625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I've always considered them crewed by power armoured members of the armoury seconded on a semi-permanent basis to the Deathwing company's designated vehicles. No doubt they are mind scrubbed upon completion of any campaign or mission in case they picked up any 'secrets'. Who crews vehicles of the Armoury has always been a bit of a hazy area as dismounted they could form a sizeable space marine force in their own right yet their strength is never shown. In all probability they must all have some link to the Mechanicus in order to apply the right balms, prayers and libations to the appease machine spirits to keep them working. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4085646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMek83 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 That would explain row of tech marines and vehicle crews outside Chamber 42... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4085685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erren Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I could never come up with an answer that I liked the looks of when I was assembling my land raiders, so I just kept the top hatch shut. It's being manned remotely from inside. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4085734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olataro Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I would say other inner circle members. If they are hunting a fallen, they can't risk it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4085735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmaspam Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I paint up RW and DW drivers/pilots as Techamarines, as I don't buy the fluff that they are excluded from the Inner Circle, especially that rubbish about the Master of the Forge getting turned into a Linux server. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4085770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelVeto Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Isn't that actually part of our less than shiney canon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4086007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmaspam Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Isn't that actually part of our less than shiney canon? As far as i know the whole MotF thing is new from the current/outgoing codex. The whole "Techmarines have split loyalty to the Mechanicus" thing is a bit more established, but i still don't buy it. Tech-adept gets sent to Mars said adept talks to adepts from other chapters heresy, traitors, etc inevitably comes up in conversation DA adept is meant to not know what they're talking about? nope. until it's extensively written into canon by BL, i'm going to go with RW and DW techmarines. **edit - idiotic typos** Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4086085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I've always considered them crewed by power armoured members of the armoury seconded on a semi-permanent basis to the Deathwing company's designated vehicles. No doubt they are mind scrubbed upon completion of any campaign or mission in case they picked up any 'secrets'. Who crews vehicles of the Armoury has always been a bit of a hazy area as dismounted they could form a sizeable space marine force in their own right yet their strength is never shown. In all probability they must all have some link to the Mechanicus in order to apply the right balms, prayers and libations to the appease machine spirits to keep them working. Normally that is what they are- power armored marines from the Armoury who have some very minor Techmarine-ish training (Techmarine candidates are drawn for these individuals, plus those who show a knack for vehicles as the train for eventual placement in the Battle Companies, or among thsoe who serve in the Ravenwing). However, the Deathwing maintains its own compliment of Land Raiders separate from the Armoury, so their crew is likley made up of similar crew who have been inducted into the Deathwing so they don't have to be mind-scrubbed after every single mission of a certain delicate nature. You scrub a mind often enough, and suddenly even a marine starts saying stuff like, "Hodor!" and "Hodor!", or even "Hodor!" :D Other Land Raiders might even be crewed by secretly inducted Deathwing members who go around incognito in green power armor, as more often than not the individuals they will be transporting will be members of the Inner Circle or the Deathwing. Another alternative is that Deathwing Land Raiders have no crew at all, and that they are controlled either by embarked Deathwing or their Machine Spirits (once any Deathwing disembark from them). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4086493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I feel very much that we've had almost or exactly this topic in the forum before, I just can't find it. until it's extensively written into canon by BL, i'm going to go with RW and DW techmarines.You're probably the first person I have ever seen who has stated an appeal to BL's authority on "canon" to invalidate something stated by a Codex. Not that it would be wrong, it's just funny, because most people decry BL as the closest thing to fan-fiction you can get and inherently suspect its canonicity. As far as the talk of "traitors" coming up, I got the impression that the technologically adept Marines go to Mars long before they would have ever been able to have been inducted into the Deahwing. I don't think they repeatedly go, and I don't think the network is that extensive that Tech-Marines are talking to each other or the Mechanicum every month or anything. To me, it's always been the questionable and potential untrustworthiness that an already secondary allegiance brings to the table. I don't think there is anything truly wrong with a DW/RW Techmarine, but they would likely be kept at the barest level of information, only what the barest new initiate might know. They will never progress any farther than the outermost circle due to a lack of trust by the people that authorize the security clearances/advancement. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4086549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmaspam Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I feel very much that we've had almost or exactly this topic in the forum before, I just can't find it. until it's extensively written into canon by BL, i'm going to go with RW and DW techmarines.You're probably the first person I have ever seen who has stated an appeal to BL's authority on "canon" to invalidate something stated by a Codex. Not that it would be wrong, it's just funny, because most people decry BL as the closest thing to fan-fiction you can get and inherently suspect its canonicity. As far as the talk of "traitors" coming up, I got the impression that the technologically adept Marines go to Mars long before they would have ever been able to have been inducted into the Deahwing. I don't think they repeatedly go, and I don't think the network is that extensive that Tech-Marines are talking to each other or the Mechanicum every month or anything. To me, it's always been the questionable and potential untrustworthiness that an already secondary allegiance brings to the table. I don't think there is anything truly wrong with a DW/RW Techmarine, but they would likely be kept at the barest level of information, only what the barest new initiate might know. They will never progress any farther than the outermost circle due to a lack of trust by the people that authorize the security clearances/advancement. BL and the FW books are, I would argue, increasingly becoming the fluff source for this game. Much more than the inconsistent and mutable codex fluff over the years, primarily designed to sell models. They aren't perfect, and still carry contradictions and inconsistencies. I will potentially contradict my own argument in that I reject most of the fluff development presented by Mr Thorpe, on the grounds that I find it either contradictory (Co. Master not in the DW, as discussed in a related topic here not long ago), or inconsistent (Grunt Greenwing oblivious to, and indeed shepherded away from, fighting traitors). But they are getting better, and are to my eyes starting to present a more consistent world-view of the 40k universe. WRT apprentice Techmarines - agreed, you go to Mars before you might join the DW. Neither are these apprentices having class reunions every couple of years. But (there's always a but...) your grunt Ultramarine, or Imperial Fist, or Blood Angel, is going to know all about traitors, chaos, and the heresy, because those chapters celebrate their loyalty through those times, and base their identity to new recruits on these stories. Same as in the Deathwatch. I'd argue that they're going to talk, ask questions, and a DA would end up looking like the village idiot if he stood there and insisted it was all lies and fantasy. Even if he did, when he goes back to the Rock, he'll start blabbing about all the things the others were saying, and end up getting servitor'd in short order. As for RW/DW techies being marginalised - completely agree with you there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4086658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 IMHO, DW drivers are probably injured/old DW members that cannot take a TDA/power armour suit anymore. To me makes more sense to have veterans that cannot serve at the front as drivers than to let Techmarines into the DW secret. But hey, this one is like one of those times we have to suspend disbelief and not care. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4087681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoic Raptor Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I think I'm fondest of the idea that DW tanks are so badass that they drive themselves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4087998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I paint up RW and DW drivers/pilots as Techamarines, as I don't buy the fluff that they are excluded from the Inner Circle, especially that rubbish about the Master of the Forge getting turned into a Linux server. Thats the thing considering he is hooked up to the Rock and all its surveillance I would say he know so much more that some Deathwing would:)... As for drivers I would personally say its as the good Chaplain says, Deathwing members unable to take to battle in Terminator Armour, you would want crew that know the importance of the mission. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4088023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustShowMePictures Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Maybe Ravenwing pilots ascended to the Deathwing man the vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4088093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shintuhadoken Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Wasn't this question answered on page 326/ 327 of the Master of Sanctity book. After being beating to near death and being left with just an arm, torso and head brother Telemenus (recently promoted to the Deathwing) speaks to the a vision, and the vision states "You might yet go back into battle. Mechanical Restoration will allow you to be a pilot, or a driver, or a gunner to a Predator or Land Raider. Only in death does duty end." So although the models are in power armour they could just be members of the Deathwing that have been injured in a way that makes them unable to fight by conventional methods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4088398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 so DW memebrs still able to be put together with bionics become pilots of the DW LRs while the ones too much wounded become pilots of the dreadnoughts? seems fair to me... Now... would you paint them with bone white PA or with green PA? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4088424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoic Raptor Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Maybe Ravenwing pilots ascended to the Deathwing man the vehicles. Welcome to the Rock. We don't take kindly to the Word of Thorpe around here, just sayin'... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4088520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shintuhadoken Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I suppose it depends on how you paint the tank with it. I tend to pain all mine as Green, but with bone coloured insets for the Deathwing tanks. So I paint the power armour in Green, but with bone insets in there armour (maybe just the one shoulder pad). To me I keep thinking back to the wallpaper that you got with the trail of Azreal, where he wearing green armour, just his shoulder pads are bone under the chapter symbol. But if you are painting the tank Bone to begin with, having a dark green marine on the top would look a little out of place and less cool than a bone one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4088557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustShowMePictures Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Maybe Ravenwing pilots ascended to the Deathwing man the vehicles. Welcome to the Rock. We don't take kindly to the Word of Thorpe around here, just sayin'... Don't care for the Word of Thorpe, it's only logical the best pilots handle the most vital vehicular operations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4089006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoic Raptor Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 My point is about the "Ravenwing pilots ascended to the Deathwing". That's a Gav-ism that's unsupported by the actual lore. Ravenwing who enter the Inner Circle become Black Knights. It's only in the World of Gav that Inner Circle and Deathwing are completely synonymous, or that only the Deathwing are Inner Circle. The Ravenwing's best pilots stay in the Ravenwing, where they are needed to fly or ride fast. Driving a Land Raider is a totally different skill set and is about the same as a Terminator suit is to a bike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4089079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 My point is about the "Ravenwing pilots ascended to the Deathwing". That's a Gav-ism that's unsupported by the actual lore. Ravenwing who enter the Inner Circle become Black Knights. It's only in the World of Gav that Inner Circle and Deathwing are completely synonymous, or that only the Deathwing are Inner Circle. The Ravenwing's best pilots stay in the Ravenwing, where they are needed to fly or ride fast. Driving a Land Raider is a totally different skill set and is about the same as a Terminator suit is to a bike. Uncorrect.The Black Knights are like the CoVets in other companies. They are veterane that Know more but still have to be inducted into DW. The codex clearly states that Black Knights are members of the RW that went through all the rites of the raven and are awaiting to be tested to be inducted into the DW... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4089121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoic Raptor Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 The codex clearly states that Black Knights are members of the RW that went through all the rites of the raven and are awaiting to be tested to be inducted into the DW... The Codex states no such thing. I'm looking at page 47 and it states "If they can pass the Seven Rites of the Raven, they will be inducted into the Black Knights, the Inner Circle of the 2nd Company. There, they will learn the real reason behind their hunt." No mention of Deathwing there - nor is there any mention of Ravenwing in the Deathwing entries on page 19 or 45. Nor does the Inner Circle entry on page 12 say any such thing. Would you be so kind as to share the page that "clearly states" your understanding of the matter? See how pervasive Gav's distortion of the lore is, when people assume it's "in the Codex"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309257-who-drives-the-deathwing-land-raiders/#findComment-4089157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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