Arsaces Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Amaranth Vipers Origin: The Amaranth Vipers were created in the 20th Founding at the end of the M35, with the task of reinforcing the Segmentum Pacificus from pirates and secessionists that are common in the Veiled Region and Halo Zone. Homeworld: Eris, located in the Segmentum Pacificus on the very edge of the Astronomican and bordering Halo Zone, is a temperate civilised world. Pockets of Bronze age level civilisation that is surrounded by thick forests, inaccessible mountains and oceans. The population never developed intensive agriculture and therefore relies heavily on hunting and fishing. The inhabitants are constantly at war with each other, which is not discouraged by the Astartes. Combat Doctrine: The Vipers are a Codex adherent Chapter, however their interpretation of the Codex is flexible in combat situations. Heavy casualties in early campaigns resulted in being far below combat strength for half a Millennia. During this period they complemented the strengths of other Imperial military bodies, including other Astartes Chapters by use of small strike forces attacking seemingly random positions to pull apart enemy forces. This allowed the forces they fought with to deliver a killing blow against an opponent that was out of position and exhausted. Since recovering from their early losses, they have developed a preference for ambush, hit-and-run tactics. Opponents chase shadows, are stretched and exhausted before a final attack is launched with overwhelming force. The discipline and unity of the Astartes allows for incredibly complex ambushes to be conducted as if by one mind. Extensive use of Chameleoline and Land Speeders are involved in setting up these ambushes, and as such the Chapter has a larger than average collection of both, including the rare Tempest model. Notable Engagements: 975.M35; The Cataclysm of Souls - Took part in the civil war against Nova Terra. Sustained heavy losses, including their entire 2nd and 4th Company. Heavily influenced the Chapters fighting style. 361.M36; Razor Wind - Brief skirmish against the Saim-Hann Eldar contesting an inhabited Maiden World. Conducted a successful Guerrilla warfare campaign in the dense jungles that held the Eldar up for a calendar year until reinforcements arrived. 182-453.M38; Bellrath Crusade - Played a minor role in the crusade in the Laanath Rifts, pacifying the rebellious human populations in the region. 999.M41; Night of a Thousand Rebellions - As the Vipers prepared to send reinforcements to the Cadian Gate, hundreds of planets in the Segmentum Pacificus revolt. All forces diverted to begin pacifying these revolts. Organisation: As a Chapter, the Vipers follows the Codex Astartes though do not see it as inviolable. The only noted deviation is the lack of Company markings, which are instead represented by a roman numeral on the left knee of the armour. Recruitment: Recruits are plucked form the war-like populations of Eris. The city-states on Eris promote discipline, obedience and unity of purpose from an early age in the population; the State comes before any individual. This is heightened upon recruitment into the Chapter by the Chaplains and Captains, and has provided the Vipers with Astartes that place far greater emphasis on following orders given by their ranking officers without remorse or hesitation, and a natural affinity to work towards a common goal as a team instead as individual heroics. To emphasise this further, recruits are not promoted from the 10th Company until they accomplish a task on the battlefield that could only be achieved through exceptional levels of teamwork and ingenuity. Beliefs: Unity of purpose and thought is everything to the Amaranth Vipers. They do not commit to any action before every Battle Brother has discussed how they will prosecute the battle. This is no issue for a Chapter such as the Vipers due to the obedience drilled into them from their childhoods in Eris. Along with being the spiritual guides of the Chapter, the Chaplains are also strict disciplinarians, and ensure that any order given by the Officers of the Chapter are followed to the letter by the Battle Brothers. Gene-seed: Based off the Raptors Chapter Gene-seed, the Vipers Melanchromic Organ has malfunctioned, and the Mucranoid is missing. The only notable mutation is a crimson pupil present in roughly 5% of the Astartes. These Astartes are referred to as the "Vipers Eyes," and have a tendency to rise up the ranks rapidly, most of which can be found in the 1st Company, or as officers among the Chapters Battle Companies. The current Chapter Master is the most notable "Vipers Eyes." Battle Cry: "Pro Imperator." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDF Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Not much here to go on so far. How are you intending to differentiate them from other chapters? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4115218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 As TDF says, there's not a lot to critique here atm so there's not a whole deal the rest of us can put in until there is more content. However, I did find one thing: Used by other Imperial military bodies to disrupt rebellions in small numbers, as the Vipers could not afford more heavy casualties. Now, when you say 'used' I assume you don't mean that they are under orders from other Imperial armed forces - space marines are widely known for their autonomy and have even shed blood when they thought this privilege was threatened. To me, this is probably just a wording issue, rather than a concept issue - is it the case that they will work with other military branches, rather than for them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4115362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsaces Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 "Used" is probably the wrong way of putting it. More fought alongside other Chapters and their specialties (being Raven Guard/Raptors descendants) and circumstances (dangerously below strength) meant they were asked to conduct specific missions that then shaped the character of the Chapter. I'll be adding to these very bare bones very soon. I know its currently not much to go on. EDIT: Emperor damn it, I was halfway through editing it and my window just shut down with nothing saved. Bloody annoying. Considering a Hittite theme. Harsh, disciplined brotherhood. Not set in stone though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4116662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Aldric Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Looks good so far but it needs spice.(As well as some more info.) Also whats this about 1% having the purple pupils? is that a Raptors thing? I think it might be a lot more common then that. One mroe thing: Perhaps you shpuld have some more special tatics, like maybe lots of land speeders to show more of thier favor towards hit-and-run style fighting? Found a symbol i think would fit as well I mean less cartoony and less detailed but you get the idae..http://thumb7.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/102853/112208099/stock-vector-chinese-paper-cut-out-snake-as-symbol-of-year-112208099.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4116865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Aldric Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 These look good too.http://orig08.deviantart.net/dbfe/f/2010/145/0/c/goseiger_snake_symbol_by_alpha_vector.jpghttp://www.123freevectors.com/wp-content/small/freevector/snake-free-vector.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4116872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Also whats this about 1% having the purple pupils? is that a Raptors thing? I think it might be a lot more common then that. Arsaces states they are crimson, not purple, brother. As far as I'm aware the Raptors don't have any such mutation - it would be unique to the Vipers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4116887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Aldric Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Oh sorry, silly mistake. The time i try to help an IA i mess up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4116890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draakur Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Liking the pupil idea - is it possible this is related to/correlates with something else? Red pupil Vipers are more likely to be psykers maybe? Or they are fated in some extreme way - destined to become Chapter heroes, or to die terrible, dishonourable deaths? Or maybe something much more subtle and esoteric? I got'sta know! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4116960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsaces Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 The pupil is related to Corax's experimentation with the Gene-seed, and the Alpha Legion adding a special ingredient to ruin it. Idea is a tiny residual of that tampering is coming to the surface in this Chapter (of course, they have no idea why). Will it go no further? Will it blow up in their faces and doom the Chapter? And I love the ideas blood hound! Thanks for them. EDIT; Modified the IA to be more in line with others, and added little bits. Hopefully will add Notable Engagements soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4117095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomus Sardauk Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Or they are fated in some extreme way - destined to become Chapter heroes, or to die terrible, dishonourable deaths? Or maybe something much more subtle and esoteric? I got'sta know!I like this idea, but rather than one or the other perhaps it's both? Like, this initiate could go on to become one of the greatest Chapter Masters the Vipers have ever seen, or he could make a horrible, foolish mistake in his first battle that sees him and his whole scout squad dragged screaming through a webway gate to live out the last hours of their lives on a Haemonculus's operating table! Or maybe it's just a silly overblown superstition over a harmless genetic defect that does no more than mess with eye pigment, and people are just seeing patterns and conspiracies where they are none. It's a mystery... ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4117367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsaces Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Right, I've put a colour scheme up, not convinced on it, so opinions are very welcome. EDIT: Also added a few notable engagements. C&C welcome! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4117622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draakur Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Or they are fated in some extreme way - destined to become Chapter heroes, or to die terrible, dishonourable deaths? Or maybe something much more subtle and esoteric? I got'sta know!I like this idea, but rather than one or the other perhaps it's both? Like, this initiate could go on to become one of the greatest Chapter Masters the Vipers have ever seen, or he could make a horrible, foolish mistake in his first battle that sees him and his whole scout squad dragged screaming through a webway gate to live out the last hours of their lives on a Haemonculus's operating table! Sorry, I obviously communicated it poorly - this was what I meant :D Could be fun! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4117719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Aldric Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Very good! I like what you have done with them. May suggest you use this:[post=http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/smpbeta.php]space marine painter.[/post] In order to show the the number on their knee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4117773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 It's a nice colour scheme, but I'd be careful of not making it look too much like the Salamanders... Also, I discovered this a couple of days ago, but Amaranth is actually a shade of red : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaranth_(color), so if you want to keep a green colour scheme, I'd suggest using a red emblem, to keep with the name. Blood Hound's latter suggestions seem pretty good for this. (make sure as well to not make it look too much like the 'nids emblem ^^) The fluff seems all right, no glaring inconsistencies. I've jotted down the things I noticed, you might want to ask yourself these questions and try and answer them in the IA itself, but its all right if you don't. What I have so far for my own Chapter. Still very much in the WIP stage, don't even have any models for them yet. Not even certain about the colour scheme or heraldry. Working on a history to the Chapter, but really not sure what I'll put in aside from an early campaign going south and having to cope with the aftermath. Amaranth Vipers Origin: The Amaranth Vipers were created in the 20th Founding at the end of the M35, with the task of reinforcing the Segmentum Pacificus from pirates and secessionists that are common in the Veiled Region and Halo Zone. Homeworld: Eris, located in the Segmentum Pacificus on the very edge of the Astronomican and bordering Halo Zone, is a temperate civilised world. Pockets of Bronze age level civilisation that is surrounded by thick forests, inaccessible mountains and oceans. The population never developed intensive agriculture and therefore relies heavily on hunting and fishing. The inhabitants are constantly at war with each other, which is not discouraged by the Astartes. Combat Doctrine: The Vipers are a Codex adherent Chapter, however their interpretation of the Codex is flexible in combat situations. Heavy casualties in early campaigns resulted in being far below combat strength for half a Millennia. During this period they complemented the strengths of other Imperial military bodies, including other Astartes Chapters by use of small strike forces attacking seemingly random positions to pull apart enemy forces. This allowed the forces they fought with to deliver a killing blow against an opponent that was out of position and exhausted. Since recovering from their early losses, they have developed a preference for ambush, hit-and-run tactics. Opponents chase shadows, are stretched and exhausted before a final attack is launched with overwhelming force. The discipline and unity of the Astartes allows for incredibly complex ambushes to be conducted as if by one mind. Notable Engagements: 975.M35; The Cataclysm of Souls - Took part in the civil war against Nova Terra. Sustained heavy losses, including their entire 2nd and 4th Company. 361.M36; Razor Wind - Brief skirmish against the Saim-Hann Eldar contesting an inhabited Maiden World. Conducted a successful Guerrilla warfare campaign that held the Eldar up for a calendar year until reinforcements arrived. 182-453.M38; Bellrath Crusade - Played a minor role in the crusade in the Laanath Rifts, pacifying the rebellious human populations in the region. 999.M41; Night of a Thousand Rebellions - As the Vipers prepared to send reinforcements to the Cadian Gate, hundreds of planets in the Segmentum Pacificus revolt. All forces diverted to begin pacifying these revolts. Organisation: As a Chapter, the Vipers follows the Codex Astartes to the letter. The only noted deviation is the lack of Company markings, which are instead represented by a roman numeral on the left knee of the armour. Recruitment: Recruits are plucked form the war-like populations of Eris. The city-states on Eris promote discipline, obedience and unity of purpose from an early age in the population; the State comes before any individual. This is heightened upon recruitment into the Chapter by the Chaplains and Captains, and has provided the Vipers with Astartes that place far greater emphasis on following orders given by their ranking officers without remorse or hesitation, and a natural affinity to work towards a common goal as a team instead as individual heroics. To emphasise this further, recruits are not promoted from the 10th Company until they accomplish a task on the battlefield that could only be achieved through exceptional levels of teamwork and ingenuity. Beliefs: Unity of purpose and thought is everything to the Amaranth Vipers. They do not commit to any action unless every Battle Brother is in agreement upon exactly how they will prosecute the battle. This is no issue for a Chapter such as the Vipers due to the obedience drilled into them from their childhoods in Eris. The Chaplains are strict disciplinarians, even compared to other Chapters, and ensure that any order given by the Officers of the Chapter are followed to the letter by the Battle Brothers. Gene-seed: Based off the Raptors Chapter Gene-seed, the Vipers Melanchromic Organ has malfunctioned, and the Mucranoid is missing. The only notable mutation is a crimson pupil present in roughly 5% of the Astartes. These Astartes are referred to as the "Vipers Eyes," and have a tendency to rise up the ranks rapidly, most of which can be found in the 1st Company, or as officers among the Chapters Battle Companies. The current Chapter Master is the most notable "Vipers Eyes." Battle Cry: "Pro Imperator." I can't help but notice that some of these elements are very similar to the Alpha Legion, like the whole "graduating" as a squad, and the simple battle cry of "for the Emperor". I don't think I'd have picked up on these but for your avatar ^^. Your homeworld is all right, but at one stage you describe its people more or less as hunter gatherers, but you also state that they have city-states, which may be a little incoherent. You might want to describe how their society works, perhaps with a caste of hunters that dominates the population, rather than a caste of warriors/nobles as is most often the case. This can also be where you talk about their sense of loyalty and brotherhood, which becomes so important for the chapter later. You might also want to explain why they never developed intensive agriculture, because it seems to me like they would naturally move towards this state of affairs (obviously fertile lands under the forests, and they already have bronze implements, which is quite advanced compared to agricultures). Also, the fact that they are at a bronze age level of technology might mean that the chapter sells iron or steel weapons to the greatest of these hunters, in the hope that their sons may become good enough to be considered for Astartes recruitment... How do they put in place their hit and run tactics ? have they got more scouts/bikes and assault marines then other chapters ? Cataclysm : How did they incur such heavy losses ? And might this have changed their fighting styles in other ways than the codex astartes ? Does the name of "vipers" come through in their combat doctrine ? they might use some kind of poison weapon ? Razor Wind : How did they manage to win such a guerilla warfare against Saim-Hann ? remember that Saim-Hann might be the single most mobile fighting force in the galaxy, since they are all mounted on eldar jetbikes, so a little insight into how they outwitted those treacherous Xenos would be welcome. Bellrath : a little insight into what they actually did ? And why is it important for you to include a campaign in which they have little input. There are sure to be many other campaigns in which the Vipers actually turned the tide, so it would be more interesting to develop one of these... Is there a reason that they follow the codex so faithfully ? The Raptors are said to follow the broad tenets of the codex, but don't see it as an inviolable dogma, and I think it's pretty much the same for the Raven Guard. Okay for the company markings, this isn't even actually against the codex astartes Okay for the recruitment, you may just want to give an example of these kinds of joint efforts ? Also, this isn't exactly according to the codex astartes (as far as I know). That's not a bad thing, just a bit surprising since you said that they followed the codex to the letter Beliefs : the fact that all warriors must be unanimous in order to start a battle seems complicated to put in practice. Obedience doesn't mean you necessarily agree with your commander, just that you follow his orders. Chaplains are the spiritual leaders of a chapter, not disciplinarians (ie. they are not commissars!) You'll want to say that it is the case in the Vipers, rather than implying that it's the case with every chapter. Is there an explanation for the Viper eyes ? if not, than its not a problem, I'm just interested in seeing where you want to go with this. Perhaps members of the chapter view the eyes of the vipers as lucky charms, and as such collect them on fallen brothers, or collect real viper eyes, or else they might paint them on their armour as a warding charm... Of course, this eye mustn't look like Horus's or Sauron's, these are too well known. No problem for the chapter cry, in my first comment I mentioned it, but it really isn't that important. All in all, pretty good concept, I'll be following this to see where you go with it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4118548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsaces Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Lord Thorn: Thanks for the feedback! All appreciated, and I'll try to answer all and include it; I've always seen an overlap in the methods employed by the Raven Guard and the Alpha Legion. They are also my two favourite Legions, and I took bits of inspiration from both. I won't even bother hiding that fact. I am trying to put my own twist on them though. I just think they're a good base to start from. The first Persian Empire sprung up from a population that did not have intensive farming (until they conquered the Fertile Crescent). I imagine the forests to be dense but with very little flat land that is more suited to intense farming. A coastal society with small cities and towns, where arable farming is present but not as important as hunting and pastoral farming. Though I like your idea regarding the hunters, and the brotherhood they develop. Chameleoline, patience and Land Speeders herding/baiting the foe. I will add that, not including it is an error It did change their fighting style, I thought I'd pointed it out. I wanted to keep that section brief, but if you think more detail is necessary I'll revisit it. Vipers comes from the idea that in RL vipers inject a venom that takes a while to take full effect, and thus they track the prey until it bleeds out from the effects. My Chapter hits them hard, exhausts them before finishing them off. I was thinking a thick jungle world, manoeuvrability is limited, certainly at any speed (even for Eldar). Again I wanted to keep it brief, but I see that needs to be mentioned. The vast majority of Chapters follow it, and they see no reason (in regards to organisation) to not do so. I didn't. Only in organisation do they follow it to the letter. They certainly don't see it as inviolable. I thought they were marked by a certain colour? Either way. I said they follow it to the letter regarding organisation. I also said that in combat doctrine (which I roll training into) they are more flexible with it. Will look into putting an example of their training. With the beliefs section I wanted to introduce the idea that they discuss all operations before they take to the field. Once they take to the field they follow orders without question, knowing that they have been heard. Fair point, will make that more clear. They of course also look after the wellbeing of each individual Marine, but the wellbeing of the unit is much more important, so discipline is important to them. I commented on this in a post. They don't know the reason, but you can guess it if you know the RG and AL's shared history. I think it's a very standard battle cry, I just added my (rubbish) Latin to it. Thanks for reading. EDIT: As for the Amaranth part, it is in reference to the eyes, not the colour of their armour. The armour I put up is just a stand in until I find a scheme I'm happy with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4119415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher No'ki Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Not sure what I can say that hasn't been said already. They seem like a pretty solid chapter, and it's good to see you've not over done anything. For being a hit and run style chapter, I see them as being quite methodical about it.I like the idea of battle plans being agree between the brothers, but how does this work? Even at a company level, surely having 100 Marines all trying to have their say is a little chaotic (with a little c ;) ). Is discussion simply between officers? Do the sergeants take the ideas of their squads to the higher ups? Whilst admirable, everyone having a say is always somewhat cumbersome. Hence representatives and politicians. ;)Also, how does this leave their ability to adapt on the battlefield? The plan has been agreed, but what happens when the plan has to change on the fly? When that "small machine gun nest" is actually a Baneblade? This wasn't part of the plan! They may not be that rigid, but it was a thought I had whilst reading through. Over all I like what you've got here and there are some interesting places you could go and I look forward to seeing them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4120094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsaces Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Well, when that machine gun nest turns out to be a Baneblade they die. Horribly. It would be Sergeants discussing battle plans with the senior officers. Sergeants are those that have displayed flair and charisma while a part of the 1st Company, so have freedom's the other Astartes are not given to adapt to changing conditions. Had no time to edit today, got my AL heads and torsos and needed to model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4120139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 It appears the server crash ate my last comment. What I said was: It's slightly strange that a Chapter dedicated to harmonious planning inhabits a planet named after the Greek Goddess of Strife & Discord. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4123206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsaces Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 Edited the original post. @Koremu; I call it irony ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310684-ia-amaranth-vipers/#findComment-4133890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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