Father Mehman Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I haven't seen this question asked (and I did look): how are Successor Chapters supposed to model a Grand Master? I see the entry for a Company Master but that won't do the trick. I need someone with flowing robes as the head of my Chapter slaying the unrighteous and xenos, servo-cherubs singing his praises all the while. So do I use a counts-as Belial or something- Azrael, even? I'm so confused ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Belial Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Sadly, that is the case. You have to use the HQ of the DA for your Successor in a counts-as capacity. It has been on my DA-Codex wish list for several editions now to allow a generic Chapter/Company Master that would be able to do well in a game even if he didn't have all the rules. An example is Sammael with his Jetbike. It is supposed to be the only one operational according to the fluff but there is no option to allow him to ride a standard bike only the speeder. This means a successor that wants to be true to the fluff is locked into the speeder option only. Now take Azrael and his combi-weapon, if your chapter has a flair for flames, then he would be the only one with plasma in a field of flamers and meltas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/#findComment-4132855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elios Harg Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 On the bright side, we can actually do a successor company master for Deathwing as Belial is no longer required. Of course, Belial was the easiest to represent successors anyway since he had 3 weapon options. You could use an interrogator chaplain to represent a reasonable facsimile of a Ravenwing successor master if they fix the issues with the Ravenwing Strike Force requirements. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/#findComment-4132938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 @GMB- This new saddens me. Well, seeing as how I'll probably never play another game again, it's not all that bad. I just like to have the option if I ever get to play again, you know? In the Space Wolves Codex you can make a generic Wolf Lord which is basically a Chapter Master. Same for the Iron Hands with the Space Marines Codex. Wait, I finally see the trend: we're kind of the bucket that gets kicked. Eh, they can kick away, I'll still be an Unforgiven Successor Chapter ! @Elios- That is a good thing about the Company Master. We can only hope they FAQ it correctly for us . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/#findComment-4132970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Bah. Just pick one of the five three battle companies of the DA chapter of the 1st LEGION, and roll with it. 5th for me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/#findComment-4133081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaeza94 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Just a suggestion, what about a kit bash for "Sammy"? I was thinking maybe scibors bike and add a plasma cannon at the end of the Lions mouth? Or maybe add wheels to their jetbike? I don't have my codex on me, but does Sammy get special jetbike specific rules? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/#findComment-4133154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Not having generic chapter masters is a problem for all non SM power armour codices unfortunately. At least for space wolves there is a reason, but I can't see why all chapter masters of the BA successor chapters would have to look like either Dante or Seth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/#findComment-4133175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I haven't seen this question asked (and I did look): how are Successor Chapters supposed to model a Grand Master? I see the entry for a Company Master but that won't do the trick. I need someone with flowing robes as the head of my Chapter slaying the unrighteous and xenos, servo-cherubs singing his praises all the while. So do I use a counts-as Belial or something- Azrael, even? I'm so confused ! Build what you want and have it "count as" Azrael is the only option. That doesn't mean your model must have a traditional sword, combi-plasma, and accompanying Watcher though. Build your Chapter Master with an axe or mace, and give him a wrist-mounted bolter-ish weapon on one forearm and a wrist-mounted plasma-ish weapon on the other forearm. Then base up Cherub decked out with tech to represent the Watcher with Lion Helm power field. It plays exactly like Azrael, because it is Azrael, but it sure doesn't have to look much like him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/#findComment-4133205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epher Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I would recommend tailoring one of the current DA HQs to fit your fluff. If you were to field him, then it would be a simple "counts as" model. If you want a bike heavy army build Sammael. In your fluff you can call him your Grand Master but on the field he would have all of Sammy's rules. If you want your Grand Master in terminator armour then you can choose either Belial, a Librarian, a Company Master or an Interrogator Chaplain. Write up some great fluff on them and when it comes time to field him you will have to roll for your Warlord Trait but at least you will be able to choose from the available DA relics. My thoughts is on the Interrogator Chaplain. I think having an Interrogator Chaplain as your Chapter Master would work well for the Clerics. It would also give you the versatility of being able to field him in power armour, terminator armour, on a bike or with a jump pack. As for me, I went with a counts as Azrael. Not that I think I will ever field him but my Guardians of the Covenant needed a proper Chapter Master. I used a mix of bits, DA vet legs, SM torso, BA arms and wings. There was much debate not over the model per se but the way he was gripping the sword. He also has an arm mounted bolt pistol. One of the other things that I was very pleased with was how the combi plasma turned out. I under slung a plasma pistol and side mounted the magazine. I used a watcher in the dark from the Deathwing pack as the relic bearer. The plan is it do another one with the shield with the crossed swords. You can see the conversion here. I will be posting a better picture for the completion of the ETL. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/#findComment-4133421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 @Epher- Mate, you just got some cool points in my book . Not to say everyone else who commented didn't (y'all did), but you've given me an idea for some fluff and, thus, the continuation of building my Chapter. Interrogator Chaplain it is! Also, good Emperor: that conversion! That's a spectacular job, my friend. Truly. Looks like this Birthday is getting off to a great start ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/#findComment-4133443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epher Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Birthday, eh? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/#findComment-4133554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Mehman, Unforgiven provides some insights on how Azrael feels about promoting interrogators to Chapter Master. Not to say you shouldn't do it, but it might inspire some more background material for your chapter. Happy birthday. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/#findComment-4133616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Or make up your own rules for your master. As long as they're reasonable most groups I've seen will just roll with it, they'll probably be better balanced than GWs own rules anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/#findComment-4133898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 Thank you for the birthday wishes, brothers! It feels good to know the world hasn't killed me off yet...not yet. @Cactus- At the risk of derailing myself and the topic at hand, I would assume Azrael doesn't like to promote Interrogators to Chapter Masters. Hmm, you know I should probably start another topic or, better yet, ask a few questions about how an Unforgiven Successor is made in my own thread. Do they get a piece of meteorite to make a sword? Does Azrael get a say in their Founding? Are flying pigs squishy? These are the things I must know ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/#findComment-4133949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced Hulk Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Although it would obviously be preferable to have custom Chapter Master rules in the DA codex, there are still ways round this. If you really want to field a customised Grand Master, you could always use an Allied Chapter Master from Codex: Space Marines. You'll have to also include a minimum of a 5 man Scout squad (a 55 pts tax basically) and he won't have any of the DA specific rules. However, you'll be able to arm him however you please (including terminator armour and all the cool relics from the marine Dex), he'll get access to an orbital bombardment + any of the Chapter tactics, and you can also field a power armoured Honour Guard squad as his personal bodyguard. The rules for 40k army lists are so flexible now that you can include almost anything, especially in Imperial armies. My advice is to build the model and fluff that you want, as now you can easily find the rules you'll need to field them. Here's an example from my own Successor Chapter: Fluff - High Lord Malazan, 'The Titan', Third Chapter Master of the Sword Bearers One of the longest serving Grand Masters in his Chapter's history, Malazan was renowned for both his acute tactical acumen and the horrendous wounds he somehow survived during six centuries of warfare. The most notable example occurred during the Siege of Forge World Andorax, where he and his entire bodyguard squad were caught in a demolisher shell impact whilst defending the northern furnaces. The only survivor of the blast, Malazan ignored his crippling injuries and continued to organise the defense, eventually repelling the Iron Warriors assault after three months of intense, grueling combat. In the aftermath of the campaign, the Tech Priests of Andorax rebuilt the Chapter Master's shattered body, utilising the most advanced bionics available as a symbol of their eternal gratitude. Now more machine than man, Malazan continued to lead his chapter for a further two centuries, enduring countless more wounds and injuries that should have ended his reign a dozen times over. Known amongst his brethren as 'The Titan', Malazan could always be found leading from the front, his hulking mechanical form armed with his signature baroque storm shield and, of course, the relic long blade wielded by all Masters of the Sword Bearers. When Malazan finally fell, crushed under the wreckage of a destroyed Traitor Warlord Titan during the battle of Kraag IV, the mourning bells of the Fenspire rang a hundred times in tribute to one of the Chapter's greatest warriors. However, the warriors of Mire do not grieve, for those that give their lives in the service of the Emperor and the Lion are only remembered proudly, as an inspiration to all those that follow them. And of Malazan, the Sword Bearer's will often say only this: "Only a Titan can slay a Titan". Rules - Counts as an Iron Hands Chapter Master with relic blade, artificer armour & the Shield Eternal So basically a Chapter Master profile with a Strength 6, AP 3 sword (near enough the Sword of Secrets to count as a Heavenfall blade if you want) + Feel No Pain, It will Not Die and Eternal Warrior. A belated happy birthday BTW Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311670-a-grand-master-for-me-too/#findComment-4135263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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