Iron Warriors question

[Doctor Perils]

Hi, I've long been wondering about starting the Horus Heresy, but I don't think I'll be jumping in just yet. I might be swayed though by the new Plastic kits, at least for a couple of characters.

If I do do anything, it'll be Iron Warriors. Paranoid Mechanical Siege Masters, yes please !

Anyways, I've got a couple of questions about the Iron Warriors and Horus Heresy figures in general, so I was wondering if you could give me a hand ?

1. I've never seen actual Horus Heresy figurines "in the flesh", but I was wondering if they'd look all right in 40k setting, as Iron Warrior Chaos Space Marines ? I know that mkVII armour in heresy is, well, heresy, but does mk3 look all right as chaos space marines ?
2. Do you think that the Bullock jetbike is going to be released soon ? I love the design, and I'm trying to develop a jetbiking Iron Warriors character. Also, how fluffy is it for Iron Warriors to use Bullock pattern rather than Scimitar pattern ? I just hate the Scimitar's design, so it's Bullock or nothing for me.
3. What do you use for your warsmiths/forge masters/techmarines? I can't see any specific models for them (I'm not against converting that sweet Iron Father model though. Just a question of removing a couple of hands on him and replacing them with the helmed skulls and Bob's your uncle). And do you think that a forge master is worth it ? In that case, should i take cortex controller and/or shrapnel bolts ?
4. Are we going to see Mk3 armour in plastic as well ? I don't think Maximus fits with Iron Warriors that well...
5. I don't actually own the books yet, so I haven't been able to have a thorough look through yet: is it possible to have battle-automata in the army, without having to take an allied Mechanicum Contingent or Perturabo ?
6. What books do you recommend me reading for extra knowledge on them ? I've read Angel Exterminatus, but that's pretty much the only one on them. Are the Tallarn books worth trying ?

Thanks for your patience with the Newb I am

[Charlo]

Okay ill answer what I can:

 

1. They look like Marines and have round bases so I'd assume so! Especially for IW who tend to not update thier armour in the fluff. 40k Traitors tend to have more demonic influence but the older Marks look ace in the 41st millennium.

 

2. With the release of a white scars upgrade pack today, I'd hope so! What people forget about the legions is that they all had full access to huge armouries of everything at a legions disposal. While it's not heavily documented with the IW using jet bikes, you can bet the ones that did were cold, calculating and used them as armour support with heavy weapons etc. Make you're own bit of fluff for it and it'll fit :)

 

3.cant comment, don't play much 30k!

 

4. I sure bloody hope so!

 

5. I think with a forge Lord or one of the commanders you take a piece of wargear that let's you have allied stuff as a unit with him...

 

6. No idea! But I'd deffo look at book 3 for the IW fluff and army list.

[Grotsmasha]

1. Iron Warriors (mostly) find mutations distastful and remove them, meaning clean MKIII would be A-Ok :tu:

2. No Idea on the Bullock, but Kromlech do a kick-ass Iron Shark

Hidden Content

3. I'm no help here.....

4. Dear god I hope so.....

5. Hopefully someone else can help here too.....

6. There's a couple of 40k books, Storm of Iron is my favourite

Cheers,

Jono

[NonExistentOne]

1. Only thing really missing is the Eight Point Star and spikey ornaments. (Never understood this since IW doesn't worship Chaos). It fits 40k perfectly fine and with the release of plastic kits, even more so.

 

2. If you read the fluff in the books, it's written in a way so that every Legion has access to everything. The only restricted Legion I can think of is Salamanders, who were too good for rad/phosphex weaponry.

 

3. Sit tight, techmarines are en route. I myself use the Narik Dreygur Praevian model to represent my HQ choice.

 

The Forgelord is one of the most versatile Consuls. You can either fully kit him out to be a choppy killer or sit him back with your gunline. (No jetbike but probably has the largest variety of options since you get the Centurion and Techmarine options).

 

4. Time will tell. Pretty sure GW will wait to see the reception on the first boxed set before committing to anything else.

 

5. Warsmiths and Forgelords can take Cortex Controllers which allow a single Castellax (HS) or Vorax (FA) maniple. It's not clear if you can take Thanatars or the new Domitars. The Praevian can take them as his bodyguards.

[Brother Dallo]

I agree with the above posts. As it happens, I'm currently frantically painting my IW Praetor to get it done in time for the ETL. He's based on the old metal Warsmith with some resin and plastic bitz thrown in for good measue.

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Chaos-Space-Marine-Iron-Warriors-Warsmith

 

I'll drop you a link when he's finished.

 

Welcome to the IVth.

 

Dallo

 

Edit: Link

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302878-ferrum-intra-in-the-footsteps-of-giants/page-3?do=findComment&comment=4133957

[Operative]

6. 'The Crimson Fist' (Part of the Shadows of Treachery HH book) is a short story about the battle of Phall (Iron Warriors vs Imperial Fists) but is told from an Imperial Fist POV. 'The Iron Within' (Part of the Age of Darkness HH book) is another short story about an Iron Warriors Warsmith, I have never read this one but I believe it is supposed to be a good read.

 

Apart from that the only other info I know about them comes from Horus Heresy Book III Extermination

[Brother Dallo]

The Iron Within is a great read. It's what inspired me to start my IW. Definitely worth a look, if you get the chance.

 

Dallo

[Skalpynock]

That Kromlech jetbike is pretty much how the IW would make their Bullocks: blocky and armored.

[Doctor Perils]

Thanks for all your speedy replies ! I'll definitely be looking into the books you recommended, and I'll have to do as you say, sit tight for techmarines, bullocks and plastic mark 3... In the mean time, I'll also have to find a way of convincing a few people to start in 30k ^^ I hear that book 3 has a way of taking models rather than units, meaning that you can probably start for less money, same with Zones Mortalis

 

EDIT: Except that you have more work to do creating scenery for ZM...

[lokkorex]

1. I think fw armour would look ace used for chaos marines, just mix in a few chaosy parts here and there for good measure.

 

2. I think bullock pattern jetbikes are still a looong ways off, although fw might surprise us by releasing it besides rules and background for the white scars, whenever that will be.

I will include jetbikes with my iron warriors, and even though jetbikes and such isn't the first thing one associates with iron warriors, they were sure to possess and make use of them, albeit maybe less so than other legions, perhaps.

 

3. Can't say what to equip him with, but the iron hands iron-father seems to be the go-to model people use for their forge-lords(and you can doubt them, really? )

 

4. Who knows? Current rumours says perhaps this spring, although imho mk.4 works just as well for iron warriors as any other mark of armour, barring mk.7, of course.

 

5. Yes, either take a praevian consul(fw book four or five, me thinks) or give your forge-lord a cortex controller. Then you can take a robot maniple.

 

6. Iron within from one of the anthologies was a good read. Storm of iron was pretty cool too. Avoid the siege of castellax like the plague, that book was just plain awful.

[Majorbookworm]

I use (well as much as someone who's played only games ever can) older marks as both HH and 40k minis. Personally, i do this purely for aesthetic reasons, i simply reckon that the look of Mk2/3/4 armour fits Iron Warriors perfectly. No one i've encountered in my (admittedly very limited) experience has had any problems.

[Doctor Perils]

Thanks guys. I'll see what I can do in the long run, but these answers are definitely giving me a better idea of how to go about Iron Warriors and Horus Heresy in general.

 

I'm reluctant to add too many chaos bits to the models, because I actually wanted to side with the Loyalists in Horus Heresy.

 

I'm trying to come up with some fluff about a Grand Battalion (the 93rd), who take part in the Drop Site Massacre, but become disillusioned with the acts of Perturabo (especially after Phall), so they drop out of the warp before the rest of Perturabo's fleet during one jump, betraying their Primarch. Of course, some Iron Warriors and Night Lords are going to be sent in pursuit, to show what happens to traitors of traitors, but the 93rd manage to pull through thanks to other Loyalist elements. However, during the Great Scouring, the 93rd has to flee for its life, since the new powers-that-be can't trust an army that took part in the DropSite Massacre, even if they did do good afterwards... (Then, much much later, the 93rd fall to Hashut, and become some of the Founding Members of the Sons of Hashut, linking in with some of my other stories of the Sarment Sector...)

 

Do you think that that could work ?

[Slips]

Seems Feasible and totally in line with an Iron Warriors thinking, I feel. Would be nice to see how you'd transition the 30k Scheme to the 40k Chapter Scheme you've got for your Sons of Hashut (maybe using a lot of Hashut Copper? )

The main thing to avoid with CSM bits is the 8 Fold Star or anything that gets too Biomechanical a la Galvorbak/Possessed/DV Chosen/Mutilators/Obliterators.

Everything else should be fine.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Thanks guys. I'll see what I can do in the long run, but these answers are definitely giving me a better idea of how to go about Iron Warriors and Horus Heresy in general.

 

I'm reluctant to add too many chaos bits to the models, because I actually wanted to side with the Loyalists in Horus Heresy.

 

I'm trying to come up with some fluff about a Grand Battalion (the 93rd), who take part in the Drop Site Massacre, but become disillusioned with the acts of Perturabo (especially after Phall), so they drop out of the warp before the rest of Perturabo's fleet during one jump, betraying their Primarch. Of course, some Iron Warriors and Night Lords are going to be sent in pursuit, to show what happens to traitors of traitors, but the 93rd manage to pull through thanks to other Loyalist elements. However, during the Great Scouring, the 93rd has to flee for its life, since the new powers-that-be can't trust an army that took part in the DropSite Massacre, even if they did do good afterwards... (Then, much much later, the 93rd fall to Hashut, and become some of the Founding Members of the Sons of Hashut, linking in with some of my other stories of the Sarment Sector...)

 

Do you think that that could work ?

Why would Phall persuade the IW to turn against Perurabo when Istvaan didn't? It was a pretty straightforward void fight vs a Legion the IV had some serious beef with, I'm struggling to see why Marines would have a problem with that but not the betrayal at the Dropsite Massacre. A better idea might be (as mentioned in Conquest) that they committed Horus out of desire to fight a secular rebellion, stabbed in the back by Imperial Officials and the Emperor, they fight to raise up one who hasn't sold out the fighting men of the Great Crusade. But, as the Chaos elements creep in they become disillusioned, realise they're fighting the wrong war before getting too deep and try to break away then.

[Kriegriss]

well maybe they jump ship because Perturabo values his men about as much as I value a 2-22 shell I mean I use them all the time but if one gets wet or dirty I just throw it away and open another box. I wouldn't want to be a bullet in my ammo belt the same as I would never want to be an Iron Warrior with Perturabo around

[Doctor Perils]

Thanks guys. I'll see what I can do in the long run, but these answers are definitely giving me a better idea of how to go about Iron Warriors and Horus Heresy in general.

I'm reluctant to add too many chaos bits to the models, because I actually wanted to side with the Loyalists in Horus Heresy.

I'm trying to come up with some fluff about a Grand Battalion (the 93rd), who take part in the Drop Site Massacre, but become disillusioned with the acts of Perturabo (especially after Phall), so they drop out of the warp before the rest of Perturabo's fleet during one jump, betraying their Primarch. Of course, some Iron Warriors and Night Lords are going to be sent in pursuit, to show what happens to traitors of traitors, but the 93rd manage to pull through thanks to other Loyalist elements. However, during the Great Scouring, the 93rd has to flee for its life, since the new powers-that-be can't trust an army that took part in the DropSite Massacre, even if they did do good afterwards... (Then, much much later, the 93rd fall to Hashut, and become some of the Founding Members of the Sons of Hashut, linking in with some of my other stories of the Sarment Sector...)

Do you think that that could work ?

Why would Phall persuade the IW to turn against Perurabo when Istvaan didn't? It was a pretty straightforward void fight vs a Legion the IV had some serious beef with, I'm struggling to see why Marines would have a problem with that but not the betrayal at the Dropsite Massacre. A better idea might be (as mentioned in Conquest) that they committed Horus out of desire to fight a secular rebellion, stabbed in the back by Imperial Officials and the Emperor, they fight to raise up one who hasn't sold out the fighting men of the Great Crusade. But, as the Chaos elements creep in they become disillusioned, realise they're fighting the wrong war before getting too deep and try to break away then.

For me, since Perturabo actually loses against a "mere" space marine, they think that Perturabo has lost any right to their loyalty, as he has shown the same weakness that he accused his Legion of before decimating them... But your ideas are good, I think I'll probably run with something along those lines, keeping the fact that Phall started to lead to their disillusionment...

well maybe they jump ship because Perturabo values his men about as much as I value a 2-22 shell I mean I use them all the time but if one gets wet or dirty I just throw it away and open another box. I wouldn't want to be a bullet in my ammo belt the same as I would never want to be an Iron Warrior with Perturabo around

Yeah, that's part of it... As all of the Iron Warriors, they are extremely paranoid, and think that Perturabo is using them just as the Emperor used Perturabo.

Seems Feasible and totally in line with an Iron Warriors thinking, I feel. Would be nice to see how you'd transition the 30k Scheme to the 40k Chapter Scheme you've got for your Sons of Hashut (maybe using a lot of Hashut Copper? )

The main thing to avoid with CSM bits is the 8 Fold Star or anything that gets too Biomechanical a la Galvorbak/Possessed/DV Chosen/Mutilators/Obliterators.

Everything else should be fine.

I don't think I'll do something too far from the original Iron Warriors, I'd still want them to look like Iron Warriors for using in potential Horus Heresy Games... But yeah, there'll probably be copper (probably copper rather than Bronze, to differentiate from Khorne a bit more.

[Doctor Perils]

• Hi again. I was just wondering if there is a real difference between Grand Company and Grand Battalion ?
  • If so, which is biggest ?

• Is one subordinate to the other or are they separate entities (like companies and Armour Centuries) ?

Which is commanded by a Warsmith ?

Are companies part of Grand Companies/battalions ?

Are their separate kinds of units that don't fit into a Grand Company or Battalion (I think Stor Bezashk might be something like that)

In essence, is their a definitive scheme to the organisation of the Iron Warriors ?

I was also thinking of a new unique unit for the Iron Warriors (since the Ultrasmurfs stole one of ours) : wouldn't it be cool, and more importantly logical, for the Iron Warriors to have Sapper Units ? If the DKOK can have them, then the siege Legion should have some to, don't you think ?

Anyway, thanks again for your help and support.

[Leif Bearclaw]

IIRC, Grand Battalions are larger, being the 'Chapter equivalent' formation for the IV.

 

I believe Grand Companys are either subservient parts of Battalions (ie, smaller combined forces of Infantry and Armour Companies, acting as Regiments to the Grand Battalion's Division).]

 

Warsmiths tend to command the Grand Battalions, but I wouldn't be surprised if a Battalion had multiple Warsmiths in its ranks, so the junoir ones would obviously be commanding smaller formations within the Battalion.

 

Separate Units not so much. Stuff like the Stor Bezashk are loose confederations of like-minded specialists. There aren't dedicated formations of them, so they'd be embedded in the regular Grand Battalions, possibly in specialist formations inside the Battalion structure.

 

As definitive as you get seems to be the Grand Battalion, being the 'Chapter' equivalent of the IV. These seem to be the building blocks Perturabo used to fight his wars.

[Doctor Perils]

Cheers, this will help me for creating my fluff behind the XCIIIth Grand Battalion