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simison

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MikhalLeNoir Venerable Brother

MikhalLeNoir

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Come on. At least try it. And to hide a a 27 year civil war is kinda difficult. Give all negative aspects to the traitors. Storms example. The berserkers example etc. Or make them the devil: if you kill aomebody, the white devil will catch you. If you ateal, the jackal comes.for you etc.
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simison Venerable Brother

simison

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Heh, you have some interesting ideas, Mikhal. I agree that there is plenty of creative room to work here. And I do believe that different sects can help flesh out different Ecclesearch creeds. For the Calvineans, you could have one sect that only acknowledges the Loyalist Primarchs, and another who thinks it's better to have commandments for each Primarch. With that kind of room to maneuver, the only real question is which came first.

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Sigismund229 Veteran

Sigismund229

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Heh, you have some interesting ideas, Mikhal. I agree that there is plenty of creative room to work here. And I do believe that different sects can help flesh out different Ecclesearch creeds. For the Calvineans, you could have one sect that only acknowledges the Loyalist Primarchs, and another who thinks it's better to have commandments for each Primarch. With that kind of room to maneuver, the only real question is which came first.

That's the Thorans :)

 

Personally I'd guess that acknowledging all 18 would come first and then the more hard line elements would start calling to only acknowledge the loyalist primarchs. Cue schism(as if the Imperial creed wasn't divided enough)

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simison Venerable Brother

simison

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Heh, you have some interesting ideas, Mikhal. I agree that there is plenty of creative room to work here. And I do believe that different sects can help flesh out different Ecclesearch creeds. For the Calvineans, you could have one sect that only acknowledges the Loyalist Primarchs, and another who thinks it's better to have commandments for each Primarch. With that kind of room to maneuver, the only real question is which came first.

That's the Thorans :smile.:

 

Personally I'd guess that acknowledging all 18 would come first and then the more hard line elements would start calling to only acknowledge the loyalist primarchs. Cue schism(as if the Imperial creed wasn't divided enough)

 

 

From my understanding of canon, the Imperial Creed only has one or two things to agree upon, and then half of everything is negotiable, while the rest crosses into heresy. 

 

The difference between BotL and canon seems to be that we're willing to actually invest some effort into the different variants underneath the umbrella of the Imperial Creed.

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Sigismund229 Veteran

Sigismund229

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My idea was that for the first two or three millenia each of the branches of the ecclesiarchy operates seperately and views the others as heretics with more extreme elements fighting each other. Then sometime in maybe M33 or 34 a full on civil war breaks out between them that ends at the Conclave of () when Saint () unites them under the umbrella of the Ecclesiarchy anf they revise the Lectitio Divinatus into several volumes in which every universally acceped belief is compiled. They then stop fighting each other although there is constant jockeying for power between the various cults within the Ecclesiarchy
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Sigismund229 Veteran

Sigismund229

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One thing the schism could be about - the ecclesiarchy views Space Marines as borderline heretics, right? So perhaps the tipping point is an argument over whether the notion of St Khârn is in fact heretical.

 

Even in the BotL, Khârn causes messy schisms

I believe the Ecclesiarchy varies in its views on Space Marines. On the one hand they are the Emperor's greatest gift to the Imperium, his Angels of Death. On the other there's some debate as to how much the Space Marines believe in the Imperial Creed and to what degree they venerate their primarchs

 

EDIT: Inspiration struck again

 

Albigensean Ecclesiarchy

While many cults of the Imperial Creed preach the superiority of the male form over the female, for the Emperor was himself male, the Albigenseans instead preach the equality of all humanity, stating that the form of humanity is irrelevant and all that matters is that the soul of humanity remains pure and untainted by xenos, chaos or mutants. As such, men and women are treated equally within the Albigensean cult and it possesses two heads, the Mouth of the Emperor, who is always male, and the Bride of the Emperor, who is always female. Aside from this, the Albigensean's share much in common with the Calvineans and is believed to have split from the Calvinean cult in early M.31 shortly after Alexandros legalised the Imperial Creed. 

 

Grindan Ecclesiarchy

Believe that no individual can be shown salvation. While every soul may be guided, none can be shown the way and each must find it by themselves. The Grindan cult has no head, instead holding everyone equal beneath the gaze of the Emperor. 

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Sigismund229 Veteran

Sigismund229

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I'm going to need to crowbar thus into Escalation somewhere...

 

Soldiers! Heroes of the 79th Cohort! Our home world, Mortax, was burned by the traitors, our families slaughtered and their memories crushed. Now the time has come for vengeance! In precisely one hour, you will charge the enemy lines. The High Command has already erased our Cohort from its records so we need not worry about our lives! We will press forward and drive the enemy back for we have nothing left to lose! Our own artillery will fall on our heads and annihilate both us and the enemy and by our deaths we shall be revenged on the enemy! Soldiers of Mortax! Kill for the dead!

Uemos Serghar Targhost to the soldiers of the 79th Cohort an hour before their suicidal charge on VIIth legion positions.

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Doctor Perils Venerable Brother

Doctor Perils

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From the Reference Thread:

 

 

Calvinean Ecclesiarchy
Founded upon the battlefields of Calvine during the Scouring, the Calvinean branch of the imperial creed has one fundamental belief: when the Emperor was mortally wounded upon Terra and as he was interred in the Golden Throne, the Emperor's soul fragmented. Only a small morsel of it stayed in his earthly form. The billions upon billions of fragments of his soul that were scattered found refuge within the wider mass of humanity. Seeing that he would no longer be able to protect humanity in person, the Emperor had instead chosen to impart a portion of his strength and will to each of his subjects so that they could protect themselves. Calvineans believe that the only souls the Emperor will save upon the last day are those who used the power he gave them to save themselves and humanity through their self sacrifice. For Calvineans, the purest death is death in battle against the Emperor's foes. Those who die in such a maner will be granted the ultimate honour: the morsel of his strength the Emperor gave them shall rejoin the Emperor's consciousness, bringing him one step closer to re awakening. 

Thoran Ecclesiarchy
Believe the Emperor allowed himself to be struck down on Terra in order to test his subject's faith. Only the elect few who's faith held strong and who didn't give in to despair in spite of hardship would be saved. The Thoran branch of the imperial faith believe that the faith of each individual must be tested every day and they must hold true to the course set for humanity by the Emperor in order to be saved. Because of this, Thorans live by strict set of 10 commandments which test them to temper the faith. 

Purist Ecclesiarchy
Believe that salvation by the Emperor is not something that can be altered by a human's actions. Instead, it is pre ordained by the purity of the human's form. Those whose form echoes that of the Emperor are those who are to be saved. Those whose form is that of a mutant are the damned.

 

Albigensean Ecclesiarchy

While many cults of the Imperial Creed preach the superiority of the male form over the female, for the Emperor was himself male, the Albigenseans instead preach the equality of all humanity, stating that the form of humanity is irrelevant and all that matters is that the soul of humanity remains pure and untainted by xenos, chaos or mutants. As such, men and women are treated equally within the Albigensean cult and it possesses two heads, the Mouth of the Emperor, who is always male, and the Bride of the Emperor, who is always female. Aside from this, the Albigensean's share much in common with the Calvineans and is believed to have split from the Calvinean cult in early M.31 shortly after Alexandros legalised the Imperial Creed. 

 

Grindan Ecclesiarchy

Believe that no individual can be shown salvation. While every soul may be guided, none can be shown the way and each must find it by themselves. The Grindan cult has no head, instead holding everyone equal beneath the gaze of the Emperor. 

 

Event which unites the Ecclesiarchy: Relations between the various cults deteriorates to such an extent that all out civil war breaks out between them sometime in M.33 or M.34. This war ends when they are united by Saint () and at the Conclave of () add several volumes to the Lectitio Divinatus in which is recorded everything that is agreed upon by all the various branches of the Ecclesiarchy. After that they don't fight each other but instead jockey for power within the Ecclesiarchy.

 

 

I'm sorry Sigismund, but I find many of these names too close to christian counterparts (especially Calvinean and Albigensian ecclesiarchies) - I know that some of these "disappeared" centuries ago, but real-world religion can cause frictions.

 

I don't know where the name "Grindan" comes from either, so it might be okay. Purist is a term that is generic enough to not cause any problems.

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Sigismund229 Veteran

Sigismund229

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From the Reference Thread:

 

 

Calvinean Ecclesiarchy

Founded upon the battlefields of Calvine during the Scouring, the Calvinean branch of the imperial creed has one fundamental belief: when the Emperor was mortally wounded upon Terra and as he was interred in the Golden Throne, the Emperor's soul fragmented. Only a small morsel of it stayed in his earthly form. The billions upon billions of fragments of his soul that were scattered found refuge within the wider mass of humanity. Seeing that he would no longer be able to protect humanity in person, the Emperor had instead chosen to impart a portion of his strength and will to each of his subjects so that they could protect themselves. Calvineans believe that the only souls the Emperor will save upon the last day are those who used the power he gave them to save themselves and humanity through their self sacrifice. For Calvineans, the purest death is death in battle against the Emperor's foes. Those who die in such a maner will be granted the ultimate honour: the morsel of his strength the Emperor gave them shall rejoin the Emperor's consciousness, bringing him one step closer to re awakening. 

 

Thoran Ecclesiarchy

Believe the Emperor allowed himself to be struck down on Terra in order to test his subject's faith. Only the elect few who's faith held strong and who didn't give in to despair in spite of hardship would be saved. The Thoran branch of the imperial faith believe that the faith of each individual must be tested every day and they must hold true to the course set for humanity by the Emperor in order to be saved. Because of this, Thorans live by strict set of 10 commandments which test them to temper the faith. 

 

Purist Ecclesiarchy

Believe that salvation by the Emperor is not something that can be altered by a human's actions. Instead, it is pre ordained by the purity of the human's form. Those whose form echoes that of the Emperor are those who are to be saved. Those whose form is that of a mutant are the damned.

 

Albigensean Ecclesiarchy

While many cults of the Imperial Creed preach the superiority of the male form over the female, for the Emperor was himself male, the Albigenseans instead preach the equality of all humanity, stating that the form of humanity is irrelevant and all that matters is that the soul of humanity remains pure and untainted by xenos, chaos or mutants. As such, men and women are treated equally within the Albigensean cult and it possesses two heads, the Mouth of the Emperor, who is always male, and the Bride of the Emperor, who is always female. Aside from this, the Albigensean's share much in common with the Calvineans and is believed to have split from the Calvinean cult in early M.31 shortly after Alexandros legalised the Imperial Creed. 

 

Grindan Ecclesiarchy

Believe that no individual can be shown salvation. While every soul may be guided, none can be shown the way and each must find it by themselves. The Grindan cult has no head, instead holding everyone equal beneath the gaze of the Emperor. 

 

Event which unites the Ecclesiarchy: Relations between the various cults deteriorates to such an extent that all out civil war breaks out between them sometime in M.33 or M.34. This war ends when they are united by Saint () and at the Conclave of () add several volumes to the Lectitio Divinatus in which is recorded everything that is agreed upon by all the various branches of the Ecclesiarchy. After that they don't fight each other but instead jockey for power within the Ecclesiarchy.

 

 

I'm sorry Sigismund, but I find many of these names too close to christian counterparts (especially Calvinean and Albigensian ecclesiarchies) - I know that some of these "disappeared" centuries ago, but real-world religion can cause frictions.

 

I don't know where the name "Grindan" comes from either, so it might be okay. Purist is a term that is generic enough to not cause any problems.

Most of those were accidents. The only one that was inspired  by a real world counterpart was the Albigensian Ecclesiarchy and technically the "heretics" of the Albigensian crusade were Cathars....

 

Anyway, point taken. Time to think of new names

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Doctor Perils Venerable Brother

Doctor Perils

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Most of those were accidents. The only one that was inspired  by a real world counterpart was the Albigensian Ecclesiarchy and technically the "heretics" of the Albigensian crusade were Cathars....

 

Anyway, point taken. Time to think of new names

 

For Calvinean, all you need is a roll on BehindTheName to get a name to replace Calvin :smile.:

 

For Albigensian... If you want to keep it rooted in the Cathars, but slightly less obvious, how about Tolosan Ecclesiarchy (Toulouse is one of the French cities that was in the same region as the Cathars)

Edited by Lord Thørn
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Sigismund229 Veteran

Sigismund229

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Most of those were accidents. The only one that was inspired  by a real world counterpart was the Albigensian Ecclesiarchy and technically the "heretics" of the Albigensian crusade were Cathars....

 

Anyway, point taken. Time to think of new names

 

For Calvinean, all you need is a roll on BehindTheName to get a name to replace Calvin :smile.:

 

For Albigensian... If you want to keep it rooted in the Cathars, but slightly less obvious, how about Tolosan Ecclesiarchy (Toulouse is one of the French cities that was in the same region as the Cathars)

 

*waves hand* It shall be so

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