General Discussion

[Athrawes]

I'll Throw my vote in the ring for Icarion as Warmaster.

 

This is the Character profile I had been using as the basis for Icarion it was inspired by the Tarot interpretations of the 20 Primarchs (Icarion representing the High Priestess:

 

"Secretive and mystical, People tend to see their own desires, hopes and needs reflected in Icarion's Personality. He is an expert at using this to illuminate, or manipulate, people. No two people can quite agree what the High Priestess is really like. His presence is deeply hypnotic.

 

Icarion is at his core, inspirational. Almost to the point of never having to do a thing. Though he never seems to tell any one his plans, they always end up carried out to perfection anyway. Inspiring intense loyalty through being able to give people a sense of belonging in the wider scheme of things. In dealing with his Brothers, Icarion gives the Impression of seeing everyone as if they were his closest, dearest companion, and can read them as if they were. He is always aware of everyone's hopes, doubts, secrets and hidden motives.

 

Always willing to listen and lend advice, but rarely without being asked first. Icarion gives the distinct impression that he cannot be told anything he does not already know, and can seem very detached from practical and material concerns.

 

Icarion is ultimately the one who can communicate an understanding of the highest goals of the Emperor to the rest of his Brothers, individually and in ways they can each understand.

 

At best, Icarion is a being of pure divine grace, calm, guiding, illuminating, and capable of giving a deep sense of belonging.

 

At worst, he is the ultimate tempter, conjuring unattainable, ever shifting but irresistible goals and twisting people's minds and desires without them even realizing what is happening, all for his own amusement."

 

++++

 

And what I feel that means in terms of this alternate universe. Icarion is still the only Primarch which the Emperor trusted enough to share his desires (the webway) and his fears (the chaos gods) with. He was engineered to become the emperors sword in the dark and to bear the mantel of his hopes. Hid character and his disposition shape him to being the ultimate force multiplier, speaking to his brothers deepest hopes and urging them in to greatness, helping them to find what it is that makes them strongest and harness it. 

 

This combined with his status as "older brother" to the rest of the Primarchs  (since he has been given the 1st primarch slot), seems to make him an natural choice as the Emoperors Warmaster. Bearing both the ultimate trust of the Emperor and the close affection and respect of the rest of his brother Primarchs.

 

All that said, There is another reason Icarion could make an excellent Warmaster.

 

He at his core flawed by his love for humanity.

 

Despite his pride in the task the Emperor (in his trust) set him towards, purging worlds tainted by the warp. Icarion slowly comes to resent this thankless task, while he views it as necessary to follow his father, the billions of lives his put to the sword while following this mission begins to weigh upon his soul. (In the prime or cannon universe, this is why Icarion refuses to obey the emperor and purge Madrigal, and by extension why his legion was wiped out in the Tempest war)

 

++++

 

My last two reason for why I feel that Icarion could be Warmaster are a bit more selfish. 

 

first, I have a spare Icarion model sitting around that I have been waiting for an excuse to paint up blessed by the pantheon. (this would be THE perfect excuse.

 

Second, "The Icarion Insurrection" Sounds way too cool to me...

 

 

 

[Skalpynock]

Second, "The Icarion Insurrection" Sounds way too cool to me...

Can't beat that.

[Demus Ragnok]

I was inclined to say no to Icarion as Warmaster but Athrawes won me over.

 

I vote Icarion for Warmaster.

[Big Bad Squig]

Icarion, Hectarion and Raktra are my votes.  Raktra simply because its interesting to think of Raktra being put in such an esteemed position, and whether it would lighten his heart or simply give him more resources to bully people with.

[simison]

Athrawes, I simply will point out that Icarion doesn't have to be the Warmaster to be the Arch-Traitor. So, even if the votes don't go that way, it doesn't mean we won't have the Icarion Insurrection. 

 

Now, to update those votes...

 

EDIT: Now, here's the list of frater who haven't voted yet.

 

AlphariusOmegon

Griftofer

Hesh Kadesh

depthcharge12 (If he is still willing to be a part of the project)

 

Am I missing anyone?

Edited August 8, 2015 by simison

[Chief Captain Redd]

Simison, your vote for Daer'dd as Warmaster makes WAY more sense to me after that post. I think a lot of us are still thinking that Warmaster=Arch Traitor. Where as that doesn't have to be the case anymore. So I agree Icarion makes a lot of sense for the traitor's figure head. But a more typically martial minded Primarch would make more sense as Warmaster.

Also should I start a new thread for filling in the Iron Bears and Daer'dd for this or just post here?

[AlphariusOmegon108]

I vote for Icarion as warmaster, I wont vote for arch-traitor, other people can decide that better

[simison]

Yeah, I apologize for that. It's why I repeatedly asked for Raktra's clarification. Because, originally, he voted for Alexandros to be the head of the Traitors, but being Warmaster doesn't guarantee that he'll be a Traitor. 

 

For example, here's the scenario if Alexandros is the Warmaster. Although initially reluctant to fill in the position, once the Emperor retires to Terra, Alexandros is determined to live up to his Father's expectations. However, as usual, he does it in his own style. Unlike Horus' leading from the front style, Alexandros is very much more of a chessmaster and is much more concerned for the Imperium's political situation. When the High Lords try to implement taxes too soon, Alex will immediately leave whatever battlefield he is on to persuade them to change their minds. In this reality, the Imperium runs more efficiently, but the Great Crusade slows down because Alexandros enjoys being the politician more than he does being the warrior. As an example of that, Alex is much more willing to establish alliances and client states with other human powers, like the Interex. At the same time, he is much less willing to authorize Exterminatus operations. 

 

However, this has a secondary effect of stretching Alex's attention thin, which gives the rebels the chance to plant the seeds of discord. Still, he is the Seer and famed for his Foresight and his insight. For Chaos to strike a blow, they need two Primarchs. Alexos Travier will be their disciple and favorite. But it is Icarion who must lead the rebellion. As Athrawes pointed out, once corrupted, Icarion has the necessary charisma and trust to corrupt other Primarchs, unlike Alexos who is stuck with a dark reputation. And, as I have pointed out to Athrawes, Icarion is the only other Primarch that can counter Alexandros mastery of Divination with his own expertise. 

 

 

So, there. Being the Warmaster does not guarantee a one-way ticket to Traitorsville. 

 

Redd, while I would like to host the Lost Legions here, I'm afraid we would quickly overwhelm the thread. Go ahead and start a new thread, and I'll start posting links next to our legion names/numbers. Now, if you have any information that affects the Lost Brotherhood universe, post it here, like what are the relationships between Daer'dd and his fellow brothers.

[Raktra]

I'm a :cussing idiot. I meant as Warmaster.

[simison]

I'm a :cussing idiot. I meant as Warmaster.

 

Dude, it's okay. No harm, no foul.

 

EDIT: Actually, anyone else confused by this? It occurs to me that people may have been voting for Arch-Traitor as opposed to Warmaster. 

Edited August 8, 2015 by simison

[Slips]

I think I vored Alex as Warmaster? Will stick with that. For Arch Traitor? I'm cool with anyone, really.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I vote for Alex as the Warmaster.

[Grifftofer]

 

I can easily drop Mearann and the Scions of the Abyss for Slips's Legion. The scions are much less fleshed out anyway.

 

It's for depth's legion, but thanks for giving him the option, Grift. 

 

You still up for this brand of insanity, depth? Pool's open.

 

 

Damn. That'll teach me to try and post something while I'm falling asleep. Sorry Depth.

 

As to voting for Warmaster. I'll put my votes behind Alexandros Von Salim and Icarion too. I think both have qualities that would make them good choices for the role.

[jeremy1391]

Wow guys thisbis a very cool project i will be following

 

 

[Doctor Perils]

I'm sorry, I'm really not familiar with your different Lost Legions, but:

I see you're looking a lot at the warmaster+arch-traitor+arch-loyalist. Who will be leading the rebels as well ? I wouldn't be surprised if a Legion with a "sub-empire" like Ultramar took things into his own hands (not unlike the Dornian Heresy Ultramarines), and I wouldn't be surprised if there were a couple of people who joined him...

 

Also, will there be one Legion who is split more or less in half like the Dark Angels ?

[Praefectus Invictus]

I meant to vote for Raktra as warmaster, not specifically arch-traitor. It truly would be a different and interesting take on how this could play out

[simison]

I'm sorry, I'm really not familiar with your different Lost Legions, but:

I see you're looking a lot at the warmaster+arch-traitor+arch-loyalist. Who will be leading the rebels as well ? I wouldn't be surprised if a Legion with a "sub-empire" like Ultramar took things into his own hands (not unlike the Dornian Heresy Ultramarines), and I wouldn't be surprised if there were a couple of people who joined him...

 

Also, will there be one Legion who is split more or less in half like the Dark Angels ?

 

 

I'm not sure yet. I know the Jackals are leaning towards going pure Renegade. 'To hell with all of you, we're going to the frontier!' is the attitude I heard. 

 

By rebels, I assume you mean the Revolutionaries. Honestly, I think Kozja might end up doing so because he wants the leadership, whereas the Jade General doesn't really care for being top dog, so long as he can continue his experiments. 

 

As for sub-empire, that will depend on legion sizes, I bet.

 

Let me go ahead, and outline my two, since they're at opposite extremes. Because Alex was able to cure the insanity problem, and he focuses on liberating and establishing recruitment rights, the Halcyon Wardens are one of the largest legions in this universe. At least 200,000 strong and with plenty of stewards servicing systems, they have a wide swath of influence.

 

The Warriors of Peace are the opposite. Cursed with genetic instability, it was only the arrival of the Jade General which solved the problem. Problem is, he didn't arrive until much later, I honestly could see him being the last Primarch to be found. This has the effect of making this legion one of the smallest at around 20k-30k by the time the Insurrection kicks in.

[Chief Captain Redd]

If it's okay Simison, I'd like to change my vote with the clarification. I'll vote for Daer'dd as Warmaster and Icarion as Arch Traitor.

 

Also as far as Daer'dds interaction with his brothers, nothing so far as individual interaction or relationships. But, Daer'dd would see the other Primarchs as his "little brothers" and care deeply for every one of them despite their feelings for him. This would come from a feeling of being Alone on his home world of Huron, not because he was actually alone, but because he was placed on a pedestal, he was their savior, their god so he was only ever able to be himself and become close to a few people there, and finding them gave him a sense of belonging. And when the traitors turn, he would be absolutely heartbroken, though absolutely vengeful, ready to teach his brothers a lesson to bring them back to their father, and if they would not seek forgiveness he would kill or at least try to kill them and decimate their legion(s).

[simison]

If it's okay Simison, I'd like to change my vote with the clarification. I'll vote for Daer'dd as Warmaster and Icarion as Arch Traitor.

 

Also as far as Daer'dds interaction with his brothers, nothing so far as individual interaction or relationships. But, Daer'dd would see the other Primarchs as his "little brothers" and care deeply for every one of them despite their feelings for him. This would come from a feeling of being Alone on his home world of Huron, not because he was actually alone, but because he was placed on a pedestal, he was their savior, their god so he was only ever able to be himself and become close to a few people there, and finding them gave him a sense of belonging. And when the traitors turn, he would be absolutely heartbroken, though absolutely vengeful, ready to teach his brothers a lesson to bring them back to their father, and if they would not seek forgiveness he would kill or at least try to kill them and decimate their legion(s).

 

 

It's fine, the fault is mine. I'll be more careful to be clear hence forward. Now, you were allowed three nominations. You nixed Icarion, but what about Alex?

 

Also, how big is Daer'dd? Alex is, with Alpharius/Omegon gone, now the smallest Primarch. So, I just have this funny image of a giant of a Primarch looking down at Alex, grinning and saying, "Hello, little brother."

 

And, Alex going, "Well, I guess the shoe does fit..."

Edited August 8, 2015 by simison

[Chief Captain Redd]

I'll gladly still give a vote to Alex for Warmaster.

 

And Daer'dd is BIG,I'm not sure on specifics, but not so much in height, maybe half a head or head taller than an "average" Primarch, but he is broad to say the least, very large hands & feet, incredibly thick arms and legs,incredibly broad shoulders. Basically very Hulk-esque proportions. So if say the average for a Primarch is ten feet or three meters roughly, he'd be closer to twelve or thirteen feet tall and doing the math really quickly based on past Arcana Evolved/D&D characters he'd be around 7,000-9,000lbs with all that super dense muscle mass and reenforced skeletal structure.

 

And yeah that sounds about right, he'd probably offer him a drink of Huronian mead or to make him a new weapon or suit of armour haha.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Chief Captain Redd

[simison]

Well, that settles it. I must write a scene about the first time they meet.

[Chief Captain Redd]

I am far too excited to read it

[simison]

Redd, can you give me a physical description of him? (Eye/hair/skin color, hair style, facial hair, tattoos, basic idea of what his armor looks like)

[Chief Captain Redd]

His eyes have black scleras with almost neon orange iris' (biotech augmented replacements). His skin is a deep olive, his left side of his body is covered in fine knot work in blues and reds. He has black beard, a little shaggy only a few inches long at most. Black hair with crimson/maroon highlights pulled back into three or four braids.

 

His armour is reminiscent of Mark III lots of intricately woven bands with heavier plates on top. His pauldrons are squared with layered plates. His arms are bare save for gauntlets that are fingerless. His greaves match the shape of his calves, his "boots" are in the shape of clawed feet. He has a cream tunic that goes under his chest plate, and he has various feathers, totems, teeth, and claws attached to his armour. His armour is sort of a metallic wrought iron or tungsten black, with the bands of his gauntlets and greaves a burnished orange copper.

 

I hope that's enough ☺ let me know if you more

[simison]

Last question before I can write. Did you have any ideas/themes/thoughts on what the meeting would be like between him and the Emperor?