Athrawes Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Hard to say. For the canonverse he is great. But here in the broverse you have some primarchs with similar points who are in my limited opinion stronger. But one thing I would change for sure is his aegis armor. Give it 2+/3++. At least in the broverse With a 3++ Rerollable because Prescience? Hit and Run, autohit Strikedown from Assail, he is kinda good. Only things I'd suggest is confirming is his ability to reroll when dead, (i think he should be allowed to do so, he is the instigator), and the housekeeping on Hit and Run (hnr carries over to squads regardless). In regards to Balance, Rending, or a flat AP3 on his shooting could make him a fairly considerable ranged threat as well. Smite, Strikedown, and Vortex of Doom in conjunction all are fairly damaging, turning him into a one man artillery squadron nearly. Hesh, I'm probably overlooking something but where is assail and strikedown coming from? Additionally, my biggest fear was that he was too strong not too weak. Believe me I would love for you all to tell me to make his shooting stronger, but strength 6, ap 3, assault 2 WITH deflagrate on top gives him the means to sweep an unlucky legion squad off the board. That's why I didn't want to give it ap 3. Maybe I've just iverestimating how deadly Arc Lightning would be in that case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4207300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) After playtesting him against gwal. 2 victories for icarion. 1 victory for Gwal and one draw, where both ended dead. AO tested him further. Against Gwal he won. Again the others i can't remember but i am sure AO will tell us ;) Thought him weaker and clearly underestimated him Edited October 26, 2015 by MikhalLeNoir Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4207328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphariusOmegon108 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 He murdered Vulcan in three turns, played even against Horus, he murdered Fulgrim, killed Alexos in two turns and played even against Hectarion ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4207345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athrawes Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 @ Hesh: forget about my stupid question, It slipped my mind to consider that he has the option to take the Telekinesis Primaris power. @Mikhal & AO: Thank you guys so much for play testing him. I appreciate it, and it helps a lot. I'm still going to wait to hear impressions from Simison and Grifftofer before i say it's finalized but It seems like the growing consensus is that he is a good approximation of Horus and an arch-traitor for our Universe. I've been having loads of fun using Rewind as a panic button in play test matches, either to save him from death, or to undo a turn of terrible rolling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4207428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I'll test him against the Devil. I imagine Rewind will be the perfect saviour from Grind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4207432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Rewind is such a cool rule. Like the izanagi fate changer ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4207500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 *pulls out Primarch calculator and blows the dust off it* Man, I forgot how nebulous this thing is. I'm going to pull in Lorgar since he's the cheapest 'base' Primarch. 375 points Icarion is +1 Attack & 1 Wound, while the skills balance each other out. 385 points Armor-wise, Lorgar has better save, while Icarion has better invul, which is superior. So, a net of 5 points there. Rewind can be a powerful ability but you've balanced it with plenty of limits, I'd say 10 points at most for it. Lorgar's upgraded invul against witchfire isn't as powerful though more reliable, so I'll knock 5 points down for that. 395 points Thunderchild's dual profile, I'm dividing for comparison's sake. Shooting attack versus Lorgar's pistol, Thunderchild has an obvious advantage. +6 inch range, +1 shot, Deflagrate, & Haywire versus +2 AP & Master-Crafted. The AP cancels out the extra range and shot (I think), while Deflagrate is superior to Master-Crafted, costing an extra 10 points in my book. Throw in Haywire for an additional 10 points. 410 points Melee, Thunderchild is -2 Str, while Deflagrate & Shred make for an uneasy comparion with Smash & Concussive. One is about making wounds count, while the other is all about making them hurt. The limit of Smash is more stringent than Specialist Weapon, so overall, I'm counting it as 20 points cost, minus the 10 for the difference in Str. Both have assault grenades, but I think Haywire is more powerful. 5 points there. 425 points Sires rule, Crusader vs Hit and Run, I understand that Sweeping Advance is more devastating in 30k as opposed to 40k. But it only applies if victorious, while Hit & Run has no such restriction, 5 points there. But Lorgar's 10 LD for Bearers is superior to Icarion's +1 LD for Bearers, take 5 points back. Icarion's reroll of Warp charge roll is an undeniable advantage, +10 points. 435 points Here, it becomes very hard to compare. Living Icon & Dark Fortune vs. Honed Combat & Lightning Warfare. Living Icon is more potent than Lightning Warfare, so take 15 points back, while Honed Combat is more effective than Dark Fortune, so give 5 points. 425 points Psyker stuff. Icarion has two levels on Lorgar, easy 40 points right there. Both are limited to 2 psyker disciplines, but Santic hurts Icarion more though it is mitigated somewhat, take 5 points. But Erratic Psyker is clearly handicap while Icarion can utilize any primaris power (cool rule, btw). I think the bill comes in 30 points for that section. 10 for the unique access and 20 for the advantage over Erratic harness system. 490 points ~~ This was a very long-wided way of saying that I think Icarion is right where he should be, overall. Possibly cheaper, possibly more expensive. Calculating the points of unique/special rules is a nightmare of guesswork. Putting the calculator away, I like what I'm seeing. The Primaris switcheroo is such a unique power that I'm shocked to see no one has thought of before. I can't tell you how ironic it was to see Icarion and Alexandros have matching stat lines, minus the armor save. Athrawes 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4207592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Invictus Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Also with Icarion, if he rolls right he can get a 2++ invulnerable save with sanctuary on sanctic, and the poetential to re-roll it (is their a power on divination that grants re-rolls to saves? I lent my rulebook away so can't find out) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4207662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athrawes Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) @Praefuctus : Precognition allows the re-rolling of saving throws, but combining that with Sanctuary (for the +1 invuln) seems pretty cheeky. There is certainly the potential for it (if I roll those two powers) but it is by no means guaranteed to go off even if i am lucky enough to get them both when I generate psychic powers for Icarion. It certainly has room for abuse, but It's not really what I had in mind when choosing Divination and Sanctic as the psychic Disciplines Icarion can use. Edited October 26, 2015 by Athrawes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4207674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Invictus Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I agree that you do need to roll right and have a fair amount of luck, and there is always the chance you wont get it off or it will be denied, but there is still a chance Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4207681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athrawes Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Yep, and in that case, assuming that I just threw sportsmanship to wind, I'd probably throw all my warp charge dice at the casting of Sanctuary, guaranteeing a double and roll on Perils, With Icarions ability to roll two dice on perils and pick one, he might just get Surge. SO, in that situation, he gains a reroll to hit, a rerollable 2++ invuln, Armorbane, Fleshbane and smash, ...I'll call that... Going Supersaiyan. Magnus eat your heart out. Edited October 26, 2015 by Athrawes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4207686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 *making notes* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4207701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifftofer Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Well he looks good from my point of view. I look forward to trying him out against K'awil at some point. I still intend to do all the finalised Primarchs at some point, but we're not quite there yet and I seem to have gotten more busy of late. Also by my estimation this means that we're only one Primarch short of a full house, which is a nice point to be at. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4208317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Which primarch is actually missing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4208374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Which primarch is actually missing? Is Coch'ise here? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4208377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Yucahu. I really need to work on him. Even from a fluff perspective. As of now the Void Eagles are probably the less relevant legion. I need to fix that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4208378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Which primarch is actually missing? Is Coch'ise here? Yes. I tested him against Niklaas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4208379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) @Skalpynock: I asked you a whike back, if the void eagles want to join a campaign with the Wardens of Light, where the Void Eagles are responsible to break through a tight orbital defense in brutal space battle so that the Wardens could make planetfall and break the planetary defenses. Such a thing happens when you sent the ambassador in pieces back Edited October 27, 2015 by MikhalLeNoir Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4208380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I also asked if you wanted the Void Eagles to come save the Lions behinds in the Shadow Crusade Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4208383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Is the Shadow Crusade at the same time as the Ambushes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4208386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Lol, maybe he hasn't found the PM-Option yet;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4208387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 That'll teach me to read my PMs. This week shall be put to writing the Eagles' exemplary battles, their involvement in the Insurrection (helping the Lions at the end of the Shadow Crusade), and getting rules for their primarchs (funnily enough they have units and character rules but no primarch, while the Warbringers only have their primarch). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4208390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Well I hoped, that you would make the space battle ine exemplary battle of your legion and I can make the planetstrike an exemplary battle of mine ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4208392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) Got the initial statline done, though like with Kozja I'm at a loss regarding specific rules. Yucahu ??? PointsThe Brazen Eagle, Helmsman of the Ala Lux WS BS S T W I A LD SvYucahu 7 6 6 6 6 6 4 10 2+Unit Composition 1 (Unique)Unit Type Infantry (Character)Wargear The Astral Plumage Hullbreaker Wayfarer's Hand Frag Grenades Krak GrenadesSpecial Rules Primarch (Independent Character, Eternal Warrior, Fear, Adamantium Will, Fleet, Fearless, It Will Not Die, Master of the Legion) Sire of the Void Eagles Bulky [special Rule 1] [special Rule 2]Sire of the Void Eagles Wayfarer's Hand A bolt-revolver built to the specifications of the Eagle, it features piercing rounds designed to chew through bulkheads and void-armor alike Weapon Range Str AP Type Wayfarer Hand 16" 6 2 Pistol, Armourbane Hullbreaker This chain-spear is a weaponized variant of tools used by naval salvage teams on ancient Coaban. In the hand of the primarch of the Fourth, it makes a devastating flesh-grinder Weapon Range Str AP Type Hullbreaker - User 3 Melee, Shred, Rend(4+)The Astral Plumage 2+ armour save, 4+ invulnerable save Edited October 28, 2015 by Skalpynock Big Bad Squig 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4209132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphariusOmegon108 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 make that rending a rend (4+) :) Big Bad Squig 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312431-rules-primarch-and-legion/page/13/#findComment-4209140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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