Ragnar Blackmane by AD-B, aka you finally got me BL

[Firepower]

True, he's either a hypocrite or a case study in cognitive dissonance.  However, you could instead say that he's just bitterly resigned himself to playing a part.  He sees things for what they really are, but a sort of fatalistic, suicidal nihilism leaves Angron sorta...going through the motions, for lack of a better phrase.  Both of our interpretations have a good foundation, I think.

 

But off topic, and such.  We're discussing the wrong ADB novel :lol:

[Loesh]

True, he's either a hypocrite or a case study in cognitive dissonance. However, you could instead say that he's just bitterly resigned himself to playing a part. He sees things for what they really are, but a sort of fatalistic, suicidal nihilism leaves Angron sorta...going through the motions, for lack of a better phrase. Both of our interpretations have a good foundation, I think.

But off topic, and such. We're discussing the wrong ADB novel

Yeah, and like most things in the setting, it could be one...the other...are more likely a combination of both.

Fair enough, I was going to do a write up on another Primarch that I happen to like a lot, but I suppose ill save that for another time. :p

[Marshal Rohr]

It's a little off key to say all Primarchs are biased. Staying loyal to the emperor doesn't automatically condone all his actions/things he may or may not have done. It isn't like Danguinius knew about the sacrifice of psykers to the golden throne or Russ was always privy to the emperor's theorized plan that half the Primarchs would rebel.

 

They stayed loyal because it was their choice. The same way Americans didn't switch teams when FDR threw the Japanese in internment camps or the Soviets didn't revolt when Stalin engineered a famine to kill Ukrainians. It was their 'country' and they'd be damned if they saw it ruined for Horus' vanity. Whatever they told themselves to sleep at night doesn't matter, they were right in the end. The galaxy was better off with the Emperor. Whatever :cuss excuses chaos fans come up with don't matter, they're categorically wrong. Horus isn't called the sacrificed king because chaos was acting in humanities best interest. All that pandering can stop now. Clearly, objectively, chaos was trying to :cuss humanity. The loyalists have been proven right in ADBs own words.

 

That arguments is over. The loyalist lost the heresy, but they won the argument.

[Scribe]

Only if you take an optimistic view on consciousness. Angron doesnt if you ask me. ;)

[Loesh]

It's a little off key to say all Primarchs are biased. Staying loyal to the emperor doesn't automatically condone all his actions/things he may or may not have done. It isn't like Danguinius knew about the sacrifice of psykers to the golden throne or Russ was always privy to the emperor's theorized plan that half the Primarchs would rebel.

They stayed loyal because it was their choice. The same way Americans didn't switch teams when FDR threw the Japanese in internment camps or the Soviets didn't revolt when Stalin engineered a famine to kill Ukrainians. It was their 'country' and they'd be damned if they saw it ruined for Horus' vanity. Whatever they told themselves to sleep at night doesn't matter, they were right in the end. The galaxy was better off with the Emperor. Whatever excuses chaos fans come up with don't matter, they're categorically wrong. Horus isn't called the sacrificed king because chaos was acting in humanities best interest. All that pandering can stop now. Clearly, objectively, chaos was trying to humanity. The loyalists have been proven right in ADBs own words.

That arguments is over. The loyalist lost the heresy, but they won the argument.

Man, I can taste your salt through the monitor.

If you honestly view the setting in such black and white terms, it's the greatest indicator you don't understand how the setting functions at all.

Hell, even if ADB said the loyalists were 100% right in his opinion, it wouldn't mean he was right. It's anathema to the very concept of how canon functions in Warhammer.

Edit: Also while i'm here I might as well point out two things: One, the Loyalists didn't lose the Heresy, EVERYONE lost the Heresy, that's the point of the Horus Heresy. Two, the Emperor didn't understand/understood but miscalculated/somehow intentionally caused it to begin with, because he was under the mistaken belief that Chaos was powered by faith rather then emotion(Or seemed to be, it's rather confusing.). The Great Crusade was clearly killing innocent people for often little reason then consorting with Xenos or having a different way of life, because the Emperor may of been super intelligent but he was also colossally arrogant and/or callous in thinking they were acceptable losses.

Both sides are monstrous even in the best possible light, I just tend to side with Chaos because Chaos does not deny what it is, it is our humanity, our shadow, there's no fighting it because we create it. The Emperor, in my eyes, is just a corpse.

[Scribe]

If you come from a perspective that its better for humanity to continue existing, and an external view on the setting that says Chaos will eventually consume everyone, its a fair enough position to take.

 

If you believe perhaps there is no inherent value in our species existing, and that life (and the knowledge its all meaningless) is a more negative experience on the whole, and our only inherent right is to die as all living things must. That we are indeed born into slavery to our own senses, needs, and wants, and that Chaos gives freedom from that via insanity (or as our good man Angron had, the Nails) or ascension to Daemonhood, well maybe Chaos isnt that bad eh?

[Loesh]

Essentially yes. The universe is an unhappy place, and even without the Horus Heresy the empire the Emperor would of created would of been bereft of wonder, spirituality, and external thought. To me, living in such a regime is as good as being dead.

 

Maybe Chaos will ultimately kill humanity but humanity was always doomed no matter what, it's better to burn out then fade away.

 

Also: Psudo-philosophy aside, how did that even come up?

[Firepower]

Also: Psudo-philosophy aside, how did that even come up?

I dunno, M2C sorta exploded. It happens.

Someone once told me that tragedy is when both sides are right, and both sides lose. I think that definition fits 40k pretty well.

Actually, come to think of it, Argel Tal said something similar. Hm.

Sooo, about Ragnar...?

[Loesh]

 

Sooo, about Ragnar...?

 

 

 

 

He's pissed in this book, he seems to be really pissed.

 

...That's all I got. :p

[Ozeryk_Sleipnijr]

Sooo, about Ragnar...?

He's pissed in this book, he seems to be really pissed.

...That's all I got.

As in pissed off or pissed ... like drunk ...?

[Loesh]

Sooo, about Ragnar...?

He's pissed in this book, he seems to be really pissed.

...That's all I got.

As in pissed off or pissed ... like drunk ...?

He's a Space Wolf.

So both.

[b1soul]

So...detailed spoilers anyone?

[Ozeryk_Sleipnijr]

Sooo, about Ragnar...?

He's pissed in this book, he seems to be really pissed.

...That's all I got.

As in pissed off or pissed ... like drunk ...?

He's a Space Wolf.

So both.

Thats why they are my favorite Legion .... :-)

[DarKnight]

I received my copy yesterday and I'm about 3/4 done, so I'll post spoilers tonight if I can.

[b1soul]

I received my copy yesterday and I'm about 3/4 done, so I'll post spoilers tonight if I can.

Thanks!

[DarKnight]

Okay brothers, here's a synopsis of Ragnar Blackmane. I apologize for taking so long, also I dont know how to hide spoilers so I'm just going to tell you guys spoilers ahead for those who plan on purchasing later. You guys get that? spoilers coming up, don't look! Okay here we go...

 

 

 

 

 

We open up on Cadia with Ragnar's pack covering the retreat of some Cadian regiments to reinforce another Kasr. Rags is conversing with Ulrik the Slayer upon the battlement's of the Kasr with Chaos engines approaching and what seems to be a valiant selling of their lives imminent. They reminisce over all of the Wolves that have been lost, on Cadia and in the past that were in Blackmane's pack, the most missed being Razortongue, the bard of the Great Company while Berek Thunderfist was still Jarl. The first flashback scene is the one aboard the Vergelt where Ragnar loses his composure during the honor duel and kills the Dark Angel champion. The Angels return to their vessel and the Wolves discuss the challenge laid down. Ragnar is guilted into accepting the duel, his honor and the honor of their chapter being at stake. The duel is set to take place on an isolated planet not far away and the Wolves arrive at the location first with the Angels incoming hours away. However due to warp sorcery, a Night Lords fleet is able to translate directly in system right on top of the Wolves ship while the Dark Angel cruiser is still hours away. The NL know they have time on their side and slowly cut away the ships avenues of escape and void shields. In desperation,. Ragnar rams through one of the pursuer's ships and is able to make the warp jump, escaping the enemy but also not appearing for the duel.

 

When they meet back up with Jarl Berek, they find out a Flesh Tearer ship has been found floating and abandoned in the void, The Wolf Guard meets to decide what to do with the ship, Razortongue wants to tow it to Fenris, purify it, and add it to the Jarl's fleet, which would be a great addition, and of the Wolf Guard want's to just destroy it. Ragnar has the idea to salvage the ship and return it to the Flesh Tearers. This is shouted down by the Guard all of whom are older than Ragnar and were present at 'Honor's End', when the Wolves and Tearers went to war because the Wolves wanted to examine the bodies of some slain FTs to check for corruption. What was a small disagreement, (only about a dozen or so Astartes dead) erupted into a small scale war with hundreds dead and oaths of hatred sworn on each side. Ragnar tried to reason with the Wolves stating that they too have a curse in their bloodline, and they must be above squabbling and hold close to all of the allies they have with the End Times rapidly approaching. An eclipse on the planet of Fenris has all of the Wolves a bit apprehensive and he uses that as well as the word of Ulrik the Slayer to be granted permission to go aboard the the ship with Razortongue to see what can be salvaged and returned to Cretacia.

 

Aboard the ship there's evidence of a battle between the Flesh Tearers and the Iron Warriors. The survivors of the battle are locked into stasis, the majority of these being chapter serfs. One of the Flesh Tearers, in the throes of the Black Rage, escapes from stasis and attacks Ragnar, who is barely able to hold him off. He accuses Razortongue of releasing the Astartes purposely which Razortongue denies. Upon cleansing and repairing the ship Ragnar and Razortongue return the ship to Cretacia, where they are immediately incarcerated, the FTs unwilling to believe a Space Wolf would return such a valuable asset with no ulterior motive. The two Flesh Tearers we are introduced to are Chaplain Scarath and Sergeant Vorain. Scarath was present at Honor's End and thus also has a distrust of the Wolves but Vorain, like Ragnar is untainted by the experience. Vorain is embittered with being left on Cretacia while the Chapter wages war across the galaxy, and is even promoted to 10th Captain of a Chapter with little to no scouts and the active Astartes slowly but surely succumbing to Sanguinius' curse. (maybe they'd be in a little better shape if he didn't kill an entire prospective recruiting class in a fit of impotent rage but that's neither here nor there) Scarath releases Ragnar and Razortongue to die in the jungles of Cretacia, which Vorain objects to. If the FTs eradication is inevitable then they will do it with all of the honor available to them, and he enters the jungles to find the Wolves. The death world is harmful to even a full Astartes in power armor so by the time he comes across Rags and Razortongue, Raze is terminally poisoned by a snake and a host of other injuries suffered in the wilds. Vorain agrees to the Wolves offer of peace between the Chapters, even if it's only the Great Company of Jarl Berek and the 10 Company of which there are no scouts currently, but the future holds possibility... Vorain calls a Storm Talon to pick them up, which is then attacked by a big honkin' Pterodactyl. Razortongue gives his life killing it, dying fighting a veritable dragon instead of shamefully succumbing to poison.  Ragnar returns his body and axe to Fenris, as well as Vorain to the Great Wolf to mend the wounds between chapters.

 

We return to Cadia with the Wolves, let by Wolf Lord Ragnar and Ulrik against the endless waves of the Archenemy. Instead of wasting their lives in the catacombs, the Wolves attempt a breakout to the surface, if they have to die, they'll die in the open air, not in the choking dark. They beat a fighting retreat to the surface where Cretacian runes lead them across the ruined city to safety. Captain Vorain's scouts' guidance lead the Wolves clear where they are met by a thunderhawk of the Dark Angels chapter. They retreat to a staging area outside of the city white Astartes forces (the Shadow Wolves aren't all dead!!!!) and IG troops are ready to take back the Kasr. Ragnar is abarely able to win the duel against Sergeant Sorael, 40 years after their last encounter and begin the process of healing the differences between the chapters for the good of the Imperium. More than a few details I left out of this recounting so if you guys have questions I'm game. Overall a great book, stands beside AD-B best work. Not took much detail for the Wolves but plenty for the Flesh Tearers. AD-B if you bother to read this, can we please eventually get another one of these from you about Captain Tycho on Armageddon?

[b1soul]

Okay brothers, here's a synopsis of Ragnar Blackmane. I apologize for taking so long, also I dont know how to hide spoilers so I'm just going to tell you guys spoilers ahead for those who plan on purchasing later. You guys get that? spoilers coming up, don't look! Okay here we go...

 

Thanks for for the summary bro 

 

Good point about the SW having their own curse...do they not consider their own Wulfen curse a case of "corruption"?

[Dantay VI]

The Space Wolves do not view it so much as corruption as such, because it isn't the warp/chaos which has caused the wulfen to come to the fore. More the consequences of losing self control.

 

If you do not dominate the animal within, and learn to utilise its power, it will dominate you and then you become the beast. 

[A D-B]

"But that's not... But it doesn't make sense unless you explain the part where... Wait, you missed the part where..." -- Literally every author when they see a spoiler summary of their work.

 

(Glad you like it, guys!)

[b1soul]

The Space Wolves do not view it so much as corruption as such, because it isn't the warp/chaos which has caused the wulfen to come to the fore. More the consequences of losing self control.

 

If you do not dominate the animal within, and learn to utilise its power, it will dominate you and then you become the beast. 

 

Sort of like how SW rune priests don't use the Warp...they just use the wholesome forces of nature?

 

How do the SW know that the FT's afflictions aren't pure like their own Wulfen 

[Kol Saresk]

The Space Wolves do not view it so much as corruption as such, because it isn't the warp/chaos which has caused the wulfen to come to the fore. More the consequences of losing self control.

 

If you do not dominate the animal within, and learn to utilise its power, it will dominate you and then you become the beast.

Don't read Ahriman: Sorcerer.

[DarKnight]

"But that's not... But it doesn't make sense unless you explain the part where... Wait, you missed the part where..." -- Literally every author when they see a spoiler summary of their work.

 

(Glad you like it, guys!)

Lol I know man I really didn't do it any justice, I just wanted a general overview for the guys that won't be able to read it

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

from what I understand about the Curse of the Wulfen, it is a genetic flaw/corruption that every Wolf is susceptible to. 

 

several things have been known to trigger the CotW, such as: extreme stress, such as in battle. failing to control inner aggression, such as in training. direct exposure to the Warp (while the CotW can almost boost a resistance to the Warp, if taxed too strongly it will take control in a failed attempt to ward off further warp based corruption)
Edit: this is not trying to say the Wolves are immune to Chaos in any special snowflake way (as i believe their actions and choices leave them rather susceptible to Chaos based corruption), just as having an immune system doesnt keep us free from sickness.

 

while the Wolf is in the grasp of the CotW, they have heightened physical senses and strength (which could be just using all the inherent strength in their body, which the body normally disallows), raw aggression. What is lost is most higher intelligence and reasoning ability, any sense of self or brotherhood, and sometimes even the use of basic tools. Some stories have instances where the afflicted can be talked or beaten back into their reasoning self, but often they are lost as an efficient soldier.

 

now I have not read the Ahriman series as of yet, mostly due to a dislike of Ahriman, but is there anything there that would impact my general understanding of the CotW?

 

WLK

[Kol Saresk]

The "resistance to Chaos" bit.

 

 

In Ahriman: Exile, we are introduced to a Space Wolf who is hunting Ahriman. By following his psychic trail. And he is not a Rune Priest. Not only that, but the organ that let's space marines see memories and learn instincts from animals/people they eat, is so mutated that he just has to lick a little blood and he's seeing it. If course, he is singular and therefore not a good study.

 

But in Ahriman: Sorcerer, we do meet a Rune Priest who is becoming mutated. IIRC, he is described as being gaunt and wasted, with needle like teeth rather than fangs and his jaw is able to distend like a snake's and like the previous space wolf, not only does he see entire memories, but consuming the flesh of the dead that knew Ahriman allows him to see more of Ahriman's journey, allowing his pack to keep up on a trail that is several years old.

 

Now this Rune Priest, is traveling with a group of Space Wolves who all appear to be in various stages of the Wulfen. However their jarl seems to think that it isn't the Wulfen and that the mutations are actually being caused by the warp, despite the similarities. And those die having been manipulated by a fragment of Magnus into attacking an Imperial fleet, thus allowing Ahriman to escape while casting the Inquisition's gaze onto the Soace Wolves Chapter.

 

So the implication being that the transformation isn't some sort of immune system response to Chaos, but rather that it is being in the direct presence of the mutating touch of the warp that brings the Wulfen to the front in such force. And not always in the same ways.

 

In fact, what I would argue is that when we see the 13th Company in the Ragnar novels and in the EoT campaign, what we are seeing is a more pure-strain variety of the Wulfen that is caused by those specific individuals being more..... Sound of mind(?) compared to the Wolves we see in the Ahriman series who are so consumed by the hunt for Ahriman that they don't even blink at killing any Imperial bystanders who get in the way. Sort of like who in the Gaunt's Ghost series, the Ghosts spend a year(I think) on an almost-daemon world and still come away unchanged.

 

The difference being that the CotW is hardwired into the Wolves blood so it is only a matter of time before they mutate into one, with the individual wolf's state of mind determining whether or not it is the pure-strain Wulfen or a more Chaos-tainted strain.

 

That would at least be my theory on the matter.

 

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

That...that is certainly different. I would even go as far as saying somewhat ignorant of the Wolves culture.

 

 

for example, from your description:
-I find it hard to believe that a Wolf force, tasked or obsessed with hunting down Ahriman, would not include a Wolf Priest. One of a Wolf Priest's central roles is to curb the excessive nature of the pack and to keep an eye on possible corruption. Through science and saga, they heal the warrior spirit of their charges.
-The idea of a "gaunt and wasted" Rune Priest just boggles my mind, especially with the additional mutations described. The culture of the Wolves as described overall has an ironic abhorrence to further mutation on mortals, let alone actual Astartes.

 

 

As these alterations or oddities come from a single author, I think this is another victim of "my story, my rules" that used to be so prevalent in the Black Library. It pretty much goes against what has been established on the Wolves from an a collection of authors.

 

I do like your theory on the CotW, and if I was told "this is fact" could accept it. 

 

WLK