The Grail Wardens: a Liber Astartes Group Project

[Kelborn]

Is there a possibility to create our own warp rift like the Maelstrom?

 

Therefore we could use the Wardens as it's guardians (our own version of the Astartes Praeses as mentioned before) and the "grail" (whatever it shall be) is part of a ritual to contain the forces of warp inside this rift.

 

While the grail was stolen, the Wardens have to fight escaping chaos forces to prevent their dispersal. To get the grail back, a task force, consisting of members of all the Wardens chapters, is formed.

 

An Inquisitor or the Adeptus Mechanicus gets to know of their "failure" of loosing the grail and tasks a Imperial Knight Household (and possible auxiliaries) to retrieve it. If we decide to implement an Imperial Knights detachment, I would like to work on that after finishing the Black Hands. I recently "organized" their codex and by now it is really juicy.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Kelborn

[Arkangilos]

Parts of that I like (like the artifact keeping something in check). But honestly, I can't see a knight house succeeding where three chapters failed.

 

Also, because it would encompass a sector, we don't have to come up with reasons to involve other factions. The imperial guard, inquisition, and Knights would already be involved with no special reasons other than "defending the imperium"

Edited September 8, 2015 by Arkangilos

[Arkangilos]

Sorry

Edited September 8, 2015 by Arkangilos

[Kelborn]

Well, that was just a brainstorm about involving a rival faction like a knight house.

 

I thought about the Soul Drinkers and their precious soul spear which was stolen by the Mechanicus.

 

We could instead minimize the idea of a warp rift. Maybe into a grave of a fallen Warden's hero or some powerful temple with a daemon captured in it. On a single planet and the Wardens fight on it's surface to contain the spreading daemons, etc. This gate or whatever grows more in power as long as the grail is missing.

[Doctor Perils]

 

Ok, so I don't have much time to message about this right now, I'll do more details later.

However, as for the founding issues: That isn't really an issue. Just because I'm second founding doesn't mean it was created when I was. The three chapters that formed the Grail Wardens could have maybe done a major campaign to conquer the region in the first place, and through that alliance made the Grail Wardens.

Also, I'm starting to think that the Grail Wardens should be tasked with defending the sector, rather than an actual artifact. The sector *is* the grail, maybe? (Also, onto the sector, I'm actually not a fan of using pre-made sectors. I think we should make our own). Maybe my chapter knows that, but the only way I can convince you to defend the sector that has fallen since most of the chapters have gone (and mine is tied up else where), is to lie and tell you that we have found the clues, or something. Basically I found out what each chapter was looking for and fabricated evidence to get you all to fight for the sector. The original remaining wardens know better, but to get help, that's what we needed to do.

This would allow DiY chaos warbands to be involved whether they are chasing an actual grail or not, because they are attacking the sector. In fact, maybe my lies to the other chapters actually harmed the sector more, because now the enemy is learning that there might be something powerful here, which only escalates it. (I mean, I don't care if it's ignored).

The reason I suggest that is because (according to the Death Watch RPG's, anyways), whenever the idea of discovering a grail pops up, the Blood Angels (and many successors) would already embark on a crusade to retrieve it. I say that because us searching for a grail (that could potentially hold the Blood of Sanguinius) is not special. It's common sense for any of us. So it would need to either be something far more abstract, or something that isn't really worth the time of other Blood Angel successors.

To the Soul Drinker thing, I always thought it was confirmed that they weren't Imperial Fist successors, but it was never confirmed who they were. It was just a Blood Angel that discovered it (meaning they could be anyone, for all we know). I'm not really too fond of the idea of someone believing they are a Blood Angel successor unless they have similar flaws. It's pretty easy to hell who Blood Angel successors are, and who they are not. The only recorded case of someone *not* knowing was in the end, and they had the same flaws, they just thought it was for something else. So unless he has people that periodically go crazy, I don't think that idea is a very sound one.

But the divide mentioned by Sir Perf could be caused by "learning the truth" behind a lie that I told to get you all here.

Here is the quote from the deathwatch supplement:

Entire campaigns have been launched by the Blood Angels and their Successors to recover a lost Blood Chalice, and the mere rumour that one has been identified is sufficient to drive the Blood Angels to the edges of the galaxy and beyond to retrieve it.

 

 

I wasn't aware of this Blood Chalice thing, but these are sort of "minor" ones right ? The ones used by the sang. priests when creating new recruits and such ?

 

 

For the Crimson Knights believing they were BA succ's, I believe some IF succ's have a condition known as "Dorn's Darkness", but this isn't the same thing... I recognise this is a problem, but if we go with the Grail Wardens/Praeses-2.0, there isn't as much need to explain the reason for sons of Dorn to go around with only sons of Sanguinius...

 

I also am favourably inclined to the idea of us being protectors of a (purpose made) sector, but I don't agree as much with the idea of the Sanguinary Crusaders knowing the truth about the Grail. The idea that the sector itself were the grail had popped in to my head, but I'm still definitely partial to the idea that no one really knows what the Grail is: this would mean that the Sanguinary Crusaders could believe that it's the Sector itself, leading them to be constantly on patrol and crusade; however, Sir Perfluous's Chapter are always on the quest for a real object; others might find themselves between these two extremes. I just don't think it's a good idea for the Sanguinary Crusaders to manipulate the other chapters because

1. it makes them seem superior to the others. This is a group project, and the fruit of everyone's contribution should be seen as equal: for example, in my fluff, the Crimson Host has been manipulated since their inception by a daemonic entity, but I'm not saying that's the case for everyone (this is an exaggerated example, I know you didn't mean it like this)
2. It leaves less margin for manoeuvre for the other chapters, as they would need to spend their time in this sector. Some contributors might not want that
3. It takes away the sense of mystery about the grail

These arguments are not necessarily aimed at the Sanguinary Crusaders: I would feel pretty much the same way if Cesar de Quart proposed that the eldar spirit that manipulates his chapter is also using the other Grail Wardens, and so on...

The idea in itself isn't bad though: there is nothing stopping you from creating a second chapter that you manipulate in such a manner for example, or if other members volunteer their chapters for such treatment, then they are free to do so.

 

Another problem I think is that it would be much simpler for the Grail Wardens to petition the High Lords of Terra, through their Primogenitor Chapters amongst others, to have new chapters from another Founding, than to lure whole chapters in...

 

 

The thing with the crusades for Blood Chalices is that the BAs know what they are looking for and where to find it. This whole Grail Quest is made up (purposefully) of unkowns, but there are procedures in place so that, if even a small lead is found, then the Grail Wardens will move en masse to make sure of it.

 

 

 

The Soul Drinkers are confirmed to not be IFs, but aren't confirmed to be BAs.

 

 

Is there a possibility to create our own warp rift like the Maelstrom?

 

Therefore we could use the Wardens as it's guardians (our own version of the Astartes Praeses as mentioned before) and the "grail" (whatever it shall be) is part of a ritual to contain the forces of warp inside this rift.

 

While the grail was stolen, the Wardens have to fight escaping chaos forces to prevent their dispersal. To get the grail back, a task force, consisting of members of all the Wardens chapters, is formed.

 

An Inquisitor or the Adeptus Mechanicus gets to know of their "failure" of loosing the grail and tasks a Imperial Knight Household (and possible auxiliaries) to retrieve it. If we decide to implement an Imperial Knights detachment, I would like to work on that after finishing the Black Hands. I recently "organized" their codex and by now it is really juicy.

 

Parts of that I like (like the artifact keeping something in check). But honestly, I can't see a knight house succeeding where three chapters failed.

Also, because it would encompass a sector, we don't have to come up with reasons to involve other factions. The imperial guard, inquisition, and Knights would already be involved with no special reasons other than "defending the imperium"

 

Or the rift itself is the grail ?  sorry, just joking

 

In all honesty, I would rather us find something other than a warp rift, because I feel it's already been done extensively with the Eye of Terror and the Maelstrom, but I'm not against it if we can't come up with something better.

Whereas I like the idea of it keeping powers from beyond in check, why wouldn't these powers have already attacked after all these millenia ?

 

The reason I put the Knight's idea forward was mainly because their name (Questoris Familia) implies that they like going on quests, and so it wasn't such a stretch in the imagination that a House should go after the Grail. I'm not a fan of the idea that the Inquisition or the Adeptus Mechanicus would send them though, that isn't their way of doing things (and it just isn't a very practical way of doing things)

[Slave to Darkness]

Instead of a warp rift what about questing beyond the borders of the Astronominomcon? The Ghoul stars maybe?

[Arkangilos]

I wasn't aware of this Blood Chalice thing, but these are sort of "minor" ones right ? The ones used by the sang. priests when creating new recruits and such ?

 

Correct, so if that is how the *minor* ones are reacted to, imagine how a *major* one will draw them in. 

 

That is one of the problems: We aren't doing anything unique at all, and by making it a rumor of some huge Blood Angel artifact/grail, we would be drawing *everyone* in. 

 

 The idea that the sector itself were the grail had popped in to my head, but I'm still definitely partial to the idea that no one really knows what the Grail is

 

Then why are they there? If we are on a crusade for it, we know what we are looking for. Arthur's knights *knew* they were looking for the Holy Grail, and they knew exactly what the Holy Grail was. If we have no idea what it is we are chasing, we won't be chasing it like we are. 

 

 this would mean that the Sanguinary Crusaders could believe that it's the Sector itself, leading them to be constantly on patrol and crusade

 

But they aren't. Every crusade I have had has had a very specific objective. The very first was the search for the sword given to my first chapter master (which was a play on Excalibur, with it's loss and his depressing being a play on how the land and the king "died" when the sword was taken). My crusade for my campaign with the grail is literally them chasing down the guy that stole it from them. There is no ambiguity. 

 

 

1. it makes them seem superior to the others. This is a group project, and the fruit of everyone's contribution should be seen as equal: for example, in my fluff, the Crimson Host has been manipulated since their inception by a daemonic entity, but I'm not saying that's the case for everyone (this is an exaggerated example, I know you didn't mean it like this)

    

    

Not at all, it makes them seem like liars that know what you want, and lie to you in order to defend what we want. And that is how it *starts* not how it ends. Something has to bring us here. Why would I recruit you for an artifact I don't know exists? Why would I recruit you for a physical grail that *I want* to have for *my* chapter? Chapters are selfish and rarely share. 

 

No, my chapter at one point of time made a pact with other chapters to maintain a small (or large) force in order to defend that sector of space. Most of the other chapters are gone. I found descendants of those original chapters (heck, it doesn't even have to just be my chapter, it could be the surviving major ones, a collaborative idea to stretch the truth), and the original allies and I attempted to recruit knowing what they wanted. 

 

It leaves less margin for manoeuvre for the other chapters, as they would need to spend their time in this sector. Some contributors might not want that

 

Again, not at all. They can leave at any time. Maybe they find out that it isn't really there and they move on. Maybe they find a lead somewhere else and move on. Remember, since they are there looking for something, they will leave if it isn't found.

 

However, if it's "always" there and we "never" know what it is, they will always have to be there searching for it. That's like saying, "Somewhere in Britain there is a grail! We must find it!" They will always be searching for the grail in Britain. 

 

My way is like saying, "Hey, you guys looking for a grail! It might be here!" You go over there and still haven't found it, "But alas! We have not found it. We will search in France instead. Our quest continues elsewhere!"

 

It takes away the sense of mystery about the grail

 

How so?

 

Also, mystery isn't always a good thing.

 

Remember, when we started this idea it was on a discussion about Sir Perf's grail, and back then the idea sounded a lot better.

 

Another problem I think is that it would be much simpler for the Grail Wardens to petition the High Lords of Terra, through their Primogenitor Chapters amongst others, to have new chapters from another Founding, than to lure whole chapters in...

 

Do you remember how Badab went? Luft asked for more chapters, he asked for a whole crusade, he asked for more troops, and they turned him down. That is why Luft built up his own empire. He didn't do it out of disloyalty, he did it because he wanted to cleanse a sector of chaos. The HLoT said no, he built up his Empire, and they said, "YOU CAN'T DO THAT!" and attacked him. That is when he turned (and rightly so).

 

We would ask for help, and they would say, "Sorry, man. We've got a Black Crusade over here, a Tyranid Invasion over here, Necrons waking up over here, the biggest Ork Waaaaagh we've ever seen over there, and and Dark Eldar Raids over here. You'll have to defend your minor sector by itself, and find your precious cup by yourself."

 

Whereas I like the idea of it keeping powers from beyond in check, why wouldn't these powers have already attacked after all these millenia ?

 

They have already attacked, and each time the Wardens held them back with the artifact that was taken.

 

Either way, no matter what we do, we have to know what we are searching for. 

 

Another HUGE problem is that we are all working together to find an artifact, and from what I understand we don't have a separate organization that consists of us, that it is instead just an alliance.

 

So why would we help each other find a relic that we all covet?

 

When we find the "grail," who gets it?

 

If we don't find it, why would we leave any sizable force there to search for something we know absolutely nothing about, something we have never seen, when we NEED to forces elsewhere? 

 

So, I think we either need to agree that it is something tangible that we have held, that we all consider it to be the sector, or that one or more of us lies to others to help out (or something along those lines). 

 

Otherwise, we have no actual reason to make any form of alliance, or any form of Warden.

 

 

Based on the responses, I honestly think that the best idea right now is the grail is actually something that can *hold daemons at bay* or *open up the gates to the warp*. 

 

 

++++++

 

So here I will ask another set of questions:

 

Why would our chapters be drawn in? 

 

Why would chaos warbands be drawn in?

 

What would keep us here?

 

Why would we make an alliance when we know that we will fight over who gets it when we find it (and you know we enter this believing we will find it, and if we enter this, we want what we entered for)?

 

++++++

 

Earlier I attempted to answer those questions (when it was just the Blood Angels), by going with what Sir Perf wanted for his chapter (which actually explained how he could have the deviant chapter that he does). We found a powerful relic, we had an objective, we found it, decided, "Woah, this is REALLY powerful. We should probably leave it here, but give someone the task of defending it. Let's agree to send so many marines to start it off."

 

Then he loses it (as his fluff had), and it brought the founders back for a big joint campaign. 

 

However, we hit a snag with the "not a Blood Angel" part of Cesars, so that can't work. 

 

Instead, all of our chapters already exist. Those questions pop back open. 

 

What we need to do is step back and answer each question one at a time. 

 

Why are we here?

 

And I mean we need to seriously answer it, in a way other than "We are searching for a grail." This isn't some random encounter between us, we all agreed to form an alliance. So why? Why are we here, and why aren't the Blood Angels? Why aren't the Imperial Fists, the Ultramarines, the Mechanicus? 

Edited September 9, 2015 by Arkangilos

[Kelborn]

A more sensible reason for their alliance and quest would be easier to explain. On that I'm with Arkangilos.

 

But we could make the grail itself a bit more mysterious.

 

Just a attempt:

 

There actually was a unknown space marine chapter [insert: awesome sounding name]. They were a Blood Angels successor chapter right from the 3rd founding. 

After reclaiming the world Novala  from traitorous forces and demons they cooped a powerful daemon inside an ancient temple by using their most sacred relic, the Grail of [insert: name]

This Grail contains the blood of the chapter's greatest heroes who have fallen while fighting chaos. Although they defeated the demons, their chapter was nearly annihilated. As they wanted to honor their fallen brothers and furthermore they swore to never leave the grail unguarded, the last of them decided to be the grail's eternal wardens, renaming themselves the Grail Wardens. Since then, they watch over the grail and keep the evil inside the temple.

The reclaimed geneseed was handed over to their original chapter, the Blood Angels. They used it to create several successor chapters. Some of them were stationed near Novala because the whole region around it is in constant struggle against xenos and traitors.

 

Over the years several groups and cults tried to steal the grail and release the demon but most of the time, they failed. Unfortunately the constant fight takes it's toll as more and more brother fell. Therefore the last Wardens contacted their brothers to help them. Those successor chapters formed a honor company to support them. Although they are stationed on Novala and fight against the forces of chaos and xenos alike, only their captain is allowed to enter the temple and have a look on the grail itself. Because of that, only a handful of brothers know exactly what the grail looks like.

 

As the grail was recently stolen, the barriers which contain the daemon start to dwindle. Lesser demons randomly spawn nearby the old temple. Therefore the honor company and the remnants of the Grail Wardens are trying to prevent any further invasion. An old prophecy nearly seems to be fulfilled. It says, if the grail is filled with the blood of specific powerful daemon, the barriers will collapse and apocalypse will be unleashed.

 

Because of that, the leader of the Grail Wardens contacted their brothers to help reclaiming the grail. Problem is, besides the few Wardens, nobody knows what the grail looks like. Every hint and rumor is important and immediately pursued.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Kelborn

[Doctor Perils]

 

I wasn't aware of this Blood Chalice thing, but these are sort of "minor" ones right ? The ones used by the sang. priests when creating new recruits and such ?

 

Correct, so if that is how the *minor* ones are reacted to, imagine how a *major* one will draw them in. 

 

That is one of the problems: We aren't doing anything unique at all, and by making it a rumor of some huge Blood Angel artifact/grail, we would be drawing *everyone* in. 

 

 The idea that the sector itself were the grail had popped in to my head, but I'm still definitely partial to the idea that no one really knows what the Grail is

 

Then why are they there? If we are on a crusade for it, we know what we are looking for. Arthur's knights *knew* they were looking for the Holy Grail, and they knew exactly what the Holy Grail was. If we have no idea what it is we are chasing, we won't be chasing it like we are. 

 

 this would mean that the Sanguinary Crusaders could believe that it's the Sector itself, leading them to be constantly on patrol and crusade

 

But they aren't. Every crusade I have had has had a very specific objective. The very first was the search for the sword given to my first chapter master (which was a play on Excalibur, with it's loss and his depressing being a play on how the land and the king "died" when the sword was taken). My crusade for my campaign with the grail is literally them chasing down the guy that stole it from them. There is no ambiguity. 

 

 

1. it makes them seem superior to the others. This is a group project, and the fruit of everyone's contribution should be seen as equal: for example, in my fluff, the Crimson Host has been manipulated since their inception by a daemonic entity, but I'm not saying that's the case for everyone (this is an exaggerated example, I know you didn't mean it like this)

    

    

Not at all, it makes them seem like liars that know what you want, and lie to you in order to defend what we want. And that is how it *starts* not how it ends. Something has to bring us here. Why would I recruit you for an artifact I don't know exists? Why would I recruit you for a physical grail that *I want* to have for *my* chapter? Chapters are selfish and rarely share. 

 

No, my chapter at one point of time made a pact with other chapters to maintain a small (or large) force in order to defend that sector of space. Most of the other chapters are gone. I found descendants of those original chapters (heck, it doesn't even have to just be my chapter, it could be the surviving major ones, a collaborative idea to stretch the truth), and the original allies and I attempted to recruit knowing what they wanted. 

 

It leaves less margin for manoeuvre for the other chapters, as they would need to spend their time in this sector. Some contributors might not want that

 

Again, not at all. They can leave at any time. Maybe they find out that it isn't really there and they move on. Maybe they find a lead somewhere else and move on. Remember, since they are there looking for something, they will leave if it isn't found.

 

However, if it's "always" there and we "never" know what it is, they will always have to be there searching for it. That's like saying, "Somewhere in Britain there is a grail! We must find it!" They will always be searching for the grail in Britain. 

 

My way is like saying, "Hey, you guys looking for a grail! It might be here!" You go over there and still haven't found it, "But alas! We have not found it. We will search in France instead. Our quest continues elsewhere!"

 

It takes away the sense of mystery about the grail

 

How so?

 

Also, mystery isn't always a good thing.

 

Remember, when we started this idea it was on a discussion about Sir Perf's grail, and back then the idea sounded a lot better.

 

Another problem I think is that it would be much simpler for the Grail Wardens to petition the High Lords of Terra, through their Primogenitor Chapters amongst others, to have new chapters from another Founding, than to lure whole chapters in...

 

Do you remember how Badab went? Luft asked for more chapters, he asked for a whole crusade, he asked for more troops, and they turned him down. That is why Luft built up his own empire. He didn't do it out of disloyalty, he did it because he wanted to cleanse a sector of chaos. The HLoT said no, he built up his Empire, and they said, "YOU CAN'T DO THAT!" and attacked him. That is when he turned (and rightly so).

 

We would ask for help, and they would say, "Sorry, man. We've got a Black Crusade over here, a Tyranid Invasion over here, Necrons waking up over here, the biggest Ork Waaaaagh we've ever seen over there, and and Dark Eldar Raids over here. You'll have to defend your minor sector by itself, and find your precious cup by yourself."

 

Whereas I like the idea of it keeping powers from beyond in check, why wouldn't these powers have already attacked after all these millenia ?

 

They have already attacked, and each time the Wardens held them back with the artifact that was taken.

 

Either way, no matter what we do, we have to know what we are searching for. 

 

Another HUGE problem is that we are all working together to find an artifact, and from what I understand we don't have a separate organization that consists of us, that it is instead just an alliance.

 

So why would we help each other find a relic that we all covet?

 

When we find the "grail," who gets it?

 

If we don't find it, why would we leave any sizable force there to search for something we know absolutely nothing about, something we have never seen, when we NEED to forces elsewhere? 

 

So, I think we either need to agree that it is something tangible that we have held, that we all consider it to be the sector, or that one or more of us lies to others to help out (or something along those lines). 

 

Otherwise, we have no actual reason to make any form of alliance, or any form of Warden.

 

 

Based on the responses, I honestly think that the best idea right now is the grail is actually something that can *hold daemons at bay* or *open up the gates to the warp*. 

 

 

++++++

 

So here I will ask another set of questions:

 

Why would our chapters be drawn in? 

 

Why would chaos warbands be drawn in?

 

What would keep us here?

 

Why would we make an alliance when we know that we will fight over who gets it when we find it (and you know we enter this believing we will find it, and if we enter this, we want what we entered for)?

 

++++++

 

Earlier I attempted to answer those questions (when it was just the Blood Angels), by going with what Sir Perf wanted for his chapter (which actually explained how he could have the deviant chapter that he does). We found a powerful relic, we had an objective, we found it, decided, "Woah, this is REALLY powerful. We should probably leave it here, but give someone the task of defending it. Let's agree to send so many marines to start it off."

 

Then he loses it (as his fluff had), and it brought the founders back for a big joint campaign. 

 

However, we hit a snag with the "not a Blood Angel" part of Cesars, so that can't work. 

 

Instead, all of our chapters already exist. Those questions pop back open. 

 

What we need to do is step back and answer each question one at a time. 

 

Why are we here?

 

And I mean we need to seriously answer it, in a way other than "We are searching for a grail." This isn't some random encounter between us, we all agreed to form an alliance. So why? Why are we here, and why aren't the Blood Angels? Why aren't the Imperial Fists, the Ultramarines, the Mechanicus? 

 

Wow, an obviously well thought out answer, with lots of effort put in, thanks ! 

 

I'd obviously misunderstood a lot of what you were saying earlier, and you have clarified lots of things. I'll try and respond here, but I'm not used to the multi-quote button, so this will seem very disorganised and rambling, sorry for that.

 

 

 

I'll start out by saying where there may have been crossed wires: originally, I wasn't proposing that all these chapters be on crusade all the time in this region, and I was thinking of a joint organisation with characters looking all over the galaxy etc.

 

That being said, I think now that your ideas are much better, especially the parts about the grail being a known, concrete relic, that can protect a region of reality from the warp, and that a chapter or organisation lies to the rest about the abilities of this relic to lure them in (I'd forgotten how Badab started, and had obviously forgotten just how complicated and cold the Imperial Bureaucratic system is, so that was a good example)

 

 

I'm sorry for having misunderstood your chapter's objectives and how it functioned.

 

 

For the lying/manipulation part, I was afraid that you were sort of painting one chapter in a heroic light, saying that it was noble of them to lie to their brothers to save a sector. You have dispelled my fears about that.

 

 

For the matter of chapters being stuck in one place or not, once again you have convinced me that I was wrong.

 

 

The idea about the Grail holding the Daemons at bay does seem more feasible once all these things are taken into consideration, and it in no way resembles EoT or Maelstrom since there is in fact something stopping them. However, I'm still unclear on how we keep the Daemons at bay whilst we are looking for the artefact: if we had the grail eons ago, but it was stolen/disappeared/etc. are we just fighting like madmen to stop them while a few are roaming the galaxy looking to return the Grail to its correct position ?

[EesiOh]

A more sensible reason for their alliance and quest would be easier to explain. On that I'm with Arkangilos.

 

But we could make the grail itself a bit more mysterious.

 

Just a attempt:

 

There actually was a unknown space marine chapter [insert: awesome sounding name]. They were a Blood Angels successor chapter right from the 3rd founding. 

After reclaiming the world Novala  from traitorous forces and demons they cooped a powerful daemon inside an ancient temple by using their most sacred relic, the Grail of [insert: name]

This Grail contains the blood of the chapter's greatest heroes who have fallen while fighting chaos. Although they defeated the demons, their chapter was nearly annihilated. As they wanted to honor their fallen brothers and furthermore they didn't have they swore to never leave the grail unguarded, the last of them decided to be the grail's eternal wardens, renaming themselves the Grail Wardens. Since then, they watch over the grail and keep the evil inside the temple.

The reclaimed geneseed was handed over to their original chapter, the Blood Angels. They used it to create several successor chapters. Some of them were stationed near Novala because the whole region around it is in constant struggle against xenos and traitors.

 

Over the years several groups and cults tried to steal the grail and release the demon but most of the time, they failed. Unfortunately the constant fight takes it's toll as more and more brother fell. Therefore the last Wardens contacted their brothers to help them. Those successor chapters formed a honor company to support them. Although they are stationed on Novala and fight against the forces of chaos and xenos alike, only their captain is allowed to enter the temple and have a look on the grail itself. Because of that, only a handful of brothers know exactly what the grail looks like.

 

As the grail was recently stolen, the barriers which contain the daemon start to dwindle. Lesser demons randomly spawn nearby the old temple. Therefore the honor company and the remnants of the Grail Wardens are trying to prevent any further invasion. An old prophecy nearly seems to be fulfilled. It says, if the grail is filled with the blood of specific powerful daemon, the barriers will collapse and apocalypse will be unleashed.

 

Because of that, the leader of the Grail Wardens contacted their brothers to help reclaiming the grail. Problem is, besides the few Wardens, nobody knows what the grail looks like. Every hint and rumor is important and immediately pursued.

This is a great idea. Obviously it will need some refining. But for an outline its great. When everything is sorted out I am assuming we are going to be doing a liber cluster style thing and all writing about campaigns and such for the grail?  

[Doctor Perils]

 

A more sensible reason for their alliance and quest would be easier to explain. On that I'm with Arkangilos.

 

But we could make the grail itself a bit more mysterious.

 

Just a attempt:

 

There actually was a unknown space marine chapter [insert: awesome sounding name]. They were a Blood Angels successor chapter right from the 3rd founding. 

After reclaiming the world Novala  from traitorous forces and demons they cooped a powerful daemon inside an ancient temple by using their most sacred relic, the Grail of [insert: name]

This Grail contains the blood of the chapter's greatest heroes who have fallen while fighting chaos. Although they defeated the demons, their chapter was nearly annihilated. As they wanted to honor their fallen brothers and furthermore they didn't have they swore to never leave the grail unguarded, the last of them decided to be the grail's eternal wardens, renaming themselves the Grail Wardens. Since then, they watch over the grail and keep the evil inside the temple.

The reclaimed geneseed was handed over to their original chapter, the Blood Angels. They used it to create several successor chapters. Some of them were stationed near Novala because the whole region around it is in constant struggle against xenos and traitors.

 

Over the years several groups and cults tried to steal the grail and release the demon but most of the time, they failed. Unfortunately the constant fight takes it's toll as more and more brother fell. Therefore the last Wardens contacted their brothers to help them. Those successor chapters formed a honor company to support them. Although they are stationed on Novala and fight against the forces of chaos and xenos alike, only their captain is allowed to enter the temple and have a look on the grail itself. Because of that, only a handful of brothers know exactly what the grail looks like.

 

As the grail was recently stolen, the barriers which contain the daemon start to dwindle. Lesser demons randomly spawn nearby the old temple. Therefore the honor company and the remnants of the Grail Wardens are trying to prevent any further invasion. An old prophecy nearly seems to be fulfilled. It says, if the grail is filled with the blood of specific powerful daemon, the barriers will collapse and apocalypse will be unleashed.

 

Because of that, the leader of the Grail Wardens contacted their brothers to help reclaiming the grail. Problem is, besides the few Wardens, nobody knows what the grail looks like. Every hint and rumor is important and immediately pursued.

This is a great idea. Obviously it will need some refining. But for an outline its great. When everything is sorted out I am assuming we are going to be doing a liber cluster style thing and all writing about campaigns and such for the grail?  

 

As you say, that's a good outline Kelborn. The kinds of "Temple guard" I like particularly.

 

I think that is sort of the plan: each member writes up what the grail means for their chapter, how its loss affects them, writes a short campaign/battle/quest involving the Grail, details one character that has specific links to the Grail (probably these kinds of "Knights Templar")

[Kelborn]

Thanks, guys.

I very appreciate it!

While you will work on your chapters and their connection towards the Grail, I will maybe think about the region of Novala. If it is ok for you.

 

But I will wait a bit until we have decided what is coming next.

[EesiOh]

So if kellborne does the region. Then I guess that can be his tie in and everyone else just does their chapters/renegades business as usual? 

[Arkangilos]

Great new ideas from you all! But let's merge them!

I'm still in favor of Olis's idea that the wardens are an alliance of chapters, not a specific one. As has been pointed out, Cesar is a fist successor.

The idea that the wardens are an alliance that sends maybe a squad each to defend the Grail allows non-BA chapters. If we do say that the Grail contains the blood of the heroes, it should contain the blood of the founding members as a pledge. Each chapter master that took part in founding the Alliance poured blood in it as an oath. So basically, the sanguinary crusaders are bound by blood (being one of the founders), and we go to the successors of the original chapters as they share the blood. (We don't even have to lie now! Yay!)

So basically the original chapters did a crusade through the region to take it back for the Imperium. Eventually events transpire, and a daemon incursion led by a powerful daemon prince broke out. We discovered something (or a librarian sacrifices himself and pours his soul into a relic or something) that banishes the daemons and seals the rift. Several war bands try to steal it and several invasions occur. The original chapters take the artifact and shape it into a Grail that they all pour their blood into as an oath. The geneseed doesn't matter. They each send a squad to stand vigil.

Yeeeeeaaaaars later the Grail was successfully taken during a massive "black Crusade" to the region, so who remained of the founding chapters set off to take it back, but we were few in number now.

So we go to the blood of those chapters, their descendants and call on them for this quest.

And of course, by this point everyone that saw the Grail is dead, so no one really knows what it is anymore. They know the sector, and they know the purpose, but only those who directly stood vigil knew the appearance.

 

But yeah, the grail wardens are the temple guard, just a squad from each chapter.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Arkangilos

[Doctor Perils]

Great new ideas from you all! But let's merge them!

 

I'm still in favor of Olis's idea that the wardens are an alliance of chapters, not a specific one. As has been pointed out, Cesar is a fist successor.

 

The idea that the wardens are an alliance that sends maybe a squad each to defend the Grail allows non-BA chapters. If we do say that the Grail contains the blood of the heroes, it should contain the blood of the founding members as a pledge. Each chapter master that took part in founding the Alliance poured blood in it as an oath. So basically, the sanguinary crusaders are bound by blood (being one of the founders), and we go to the successors of the original chapters as they share the blood. (We don't even have to lie now! Yay!)

 

So basically the original chapters did a crusade through the region to take it back for the Imperium. Eventually events transpire, and a daemon incursion led by a powerful daemon prince broke out. We discovered something (or a librarian sacrifices himself and pours his soul into a relic or something) that banishes the daemons and seals the rift. Several war bands try to steal it and several invasions occur. The original chapters take the artifact and shape it into a Grail that they all pour their blood into as an oath. The geneseed doesn't matter. They each send a squad to stand vigil.

 

Yeeeeeaaaaars later the Grail was successfully taken during a massive "black Crusade" to the region, so who remained of the founding chapters set off to take it back, but we were few in number now.

 

So we go to the blood of those chapters, their descendants and call on them for this quest.

 

And of course, by this point everyone that saw the Grail is dead, so no one really knows what it is anymore. They know the sector, and they know the purpose, but only those who directly stood vigil knew the appearance.

 

But yeah, the grail wardens are the temple guard, just a squad from each chapter.

 

This I like. I can also see a symbol linking the Blood-Oathed chapters: A clenched fist from which a drop of blood falls into a chalice. I'm afraid this may be too clutterred and obvious though   It does however link the iconographies of the chapters (or their primogenitors) taking part at the moment, in a cohesive pattern.

I had also wondered if one of the original chapters (now extinct along with their gene-line) was of Dark Angels descent, because they share many of the knightly themes that are going on here. In that case the symbol could easily have a blade clenched in the fist over the chalice.

 

One question though: would these squads be veterans ? I would imagine so, but also, how would they be equipped ? Would it vary between the participating blood-oathed chapters ?

How would the squads be chosen ? a sort of rota within the chapter ? a punishment ? the highest ranking veterans, to test their mettle before being promoted ? Or would this also depend on the chapter ?

 

EDIT: Some examples I put together quickly:

http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/15/92/38/07/g388210.pnghttp://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/15/92/38/07/g388310.pnghttp://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/15/92/38/07/g388410.png

Edited September 9, 2015 by Lord Thørn

[Sir Perfluous]

This is all awesome, although it's meant I have to change my chapter's fluff a bit. The current possession of at least the remenant of a grail is important to their backstory, though it might contain the blood of their original hero which he placed in the Grail. I'll need to work on it (all the stuff happening here is the reason that I haven't posted on my thread in so long - I have no clue what's going to develop next!)

 

I do like the idea that the Grail somehow keeps a Warp rift of something shut, though.

 

I think it'd be a great idea to collaborate in creating our own non-canonical sector to base these events in, and to serve as the home to some of the chapters.

 

As for how the grail was lost, I think I might have an idea. Much as Arthur's death was indirectly caused by Lancelot's betrayal, which drew his gaze from war with the Saxons, maybe betrayal from within could have caused the Grail Wardens' destruction and the loss of the Grail. The Grail was doing its job, holding Chaos at bay, and the sector was relatively peaceful for a time (by 40k-verse standards, anyway). However one of the Chapters involved, possibly the Knights Resplendant if we tweaked the timeline a bit, was corrupted by Chaos and the power of the Grail and made a sudden bid to take it as their own. Caught completely unawares, the loyalist chapters became suddenly drawn into a civil war, drawing their eyes from the Grail. The Knights Resplendant (or whoever) upset whatever wards kept the Grail's power working, and allowing a whole host of Daemons through. The final, desperate battle that ensued caused the near utter destruction of all those involved, and the KR fled, but through incredibly heroic sacrifice, the Daemons were somehow kept temporarily at bay. Those who got through, however, took the Grail with them. The planet on which the Grail was kept was left a ruin, leaving the surviving chapters to rebuild themselves from the ashes and take back the grail before the rift erupts once more and the whole sector is taken by Chaos.

 

This is just an idea, feel free to scrap it if it doesn't fit our established fluff or is simply stupid.

[Arkangilos]

Well we don't have a timeline for it yet. We know it was founded before you all, but we don't know when it fell. It could have fallen in m41.

 

Also, remember this doesn't necessarily have to be your personal artifact, but as a chapter with this sort of thing in their culture and history, you know how important it is.

 

And I like the betrayal from within.

 

And I love those symbols!

 

As for the squads and how they get there, it probably depends on the chapter itself. Some might make it a punishment, some might consider it a great honor.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Arkangilos

[EesiOh]

I like where this is going. My own problem with it was I wanted to create a crusading company (6th company) that would spend its time looking for the grail. If we are doing this in squads then I cant do that. But on the other hand doing it in squads seems to work better. (we could even do it deathwatch style. Each chapter sends a squad and then the squad members are mixed with other squad members from different chapters. This could be a way to ensure that no one finds the grail 'first' and then claims it) 

[Arkangilos]

No no, you still can use a whole company. The campaign is as much as you want. 

 

It was during the period of peace before it was stolen that we only sent a select few to stand vigil. Now that it is gone, we are sending what we can send to get it back. 

 

So your whole company can be sent if you want. And the idea is that no one chapter gets it because 1) if one does take it, the protection goes away 2) we are send one squad each to ensure it itself stays safe. But yeah, like I said, the one "squad" is more of just those who specifically stand vigil over it when it's there. If you wanted to send your whole chapter to reclaim it, you can.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Arkangilos

[Doctor Perils]

Anyway, now that stuff seems to getting more concrete, it might be a good idea to get some basic information about each chapter, so that all the contributors can refer to it, for example when writing stories.

 

I can start if you want:

http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/15/92/38/07/cs-cri10.pnghttp://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/15/92/38/07/e-crim10.png

Crimson Host

• Primarch.................. Sanguinius
• Founding Chapter... Red Sentinels
• Founding................. 14th (M37)
• Homeworld.............. Fleet Based
• Chapter Speciality... Bikes and "Chariots"
• Organisation............ Slight Codex Divergence
• Grail Wardens ?...... One squad
• Crusade Forces...... Five companies (Reserve companies and elements of Veteran and scout companies)

NB: The Crimson Host discover that they have been manipulated by a daemonic entity. At this moment, they abandon their old identity, their colours and their oaths to the Grail Wardens. (Date to be discussed)

Edited September 9, 2015 by Lord Thørn

[Kelborn]

I really enjoy reading this thread.

All ideas sound amazing and I think that the whole Grail story will be outstanding!

 

Just let me know what I shall do as my contribution.

 

Btw: Where did you get those symbols? Did you made them by yourself?

[Sir Perfluous]

Lord Thørn, when were you thinking of having the Host turn their backs on the Wardens? I know you said it was to be discussed, but at the "present moment" of 999M41, are they the Host or Cohort? Edited September 10, 2015 by Sir Perfluous

[Doctor Perils]

At the "present" they are definitely Cohort. Ideally for me they would already be Cohort for at least 5 centuries (I want to explore more in depth just how deep their transformation has been, and I want to leave them enough time to show that - that's something for another thread), but I'm flexible on that.

 

What do you think of the 'non-standard' white band, rather than the classic plain, halved or quatered colours ?

For the symbol, I found some free heraldry with a bow on the net, vectorized it, and added the blood drop. I've also got a version in yellow on black background for officers (just like the Blood Angels)

[EesiOh]

So can we make the grail being taken, and all the warden chapters sending whatever they have at their disposal sometime around the later half of M38? If this doesnt work for other people thats totally fine (and I can see why it does seem a bit too soon) but I kind of need a way for my chapter master to deal with having a company that is under half strength (send them on a punitive/penance crusade that doubles as a grail hunt). Again though if those dates are too close to M41 that's totally fine 

[Arkangilos]

Lol, it's 3 thousand years away from M41. I wouldn't say that's too close.

 

I personally don't have a problem with it. The only things I have set in my timeline are the founding, the Liber Campaign from years ago, the founding of my second homeworld, the Draco Crusade, and the search for my stolen cup by a guy with two pistols and a broken sword. But that won't tie up my whole chapter.