The Beast Arises

[veterannoob]

@JH79 I can work these in. Though you may enjoy listening to Gav and David Annandale talk about the books 3 (Emp Expects) & 4 (Last Wall) on Combat Phase as they discuss the process of authors, main points their briefs contained and how they interacted with each other. The reason I say both is Gav was the last of the original three books in the series before it went back burner for a bit then David picked it up when it moved front center again. Both have more books coming in TBA .

Awesome, thanks for the heads up re your interviews with Gav and David and inclusion of questions into your interview with Guy! I near enough listened to The Emperor Expects, The Last Wall and Throneworld back to back over a two week period and really felt like the plot seamlessly flowed from one book to the next with each raising the bar re my anticipation for the rest of the series. It's interesting to hear that there was a slight break in the production process at one point. I think BL has really found a formula that works here and if they're smart it could have other large scale applications for future forays into the Imperium's history... that or a 12 volume siege of Terra subscription to finish off the Heresy... I jest

I will have a hunt around for the interviews you mentioned and give them a listen when i have a chance, thanks again!

No need to hunt, ep 137 is Gav (3) and ep 141 David A (4) and this sunday will be ep 144 w/Guy (5) on iTunes or www.facebook.com/combatphase or www.combatphase.com. Hope you enjoy!

add: There will be more finite series like this...soon, muahahaha!

[JH79]

@JH79 I can work these in. Though you may enjoy listening to Gav and David Annandale talk about the books 3 (Emp Expects) & 4 (Last Wall) on Combat Phase as they discuss the process of authors, main points their briefs contained and how they interacted with each other. The reason I say both is Gav was the last of the original three books in the series before it went back burner for a bit then David picked it up when it moved front center again. Both have more books coming in TBA .

Awesome, thanks for the heads up re your interviews with Gav and David and inclusion of questions into your interview with Guy! I near enough listened to The Emperor Expects, The Last Wall and Throneworld back to back over a two week period and really felt like the plot seamlessly flowed from one book to the next with each raising the bar re my anticipation for the rest of the series. It's interesting to hear that there was a slight break in the production process at one point. I think BL has really found a formula that works here and if they're smart it could have other large scale applications for future forays into the Imperium's history... that or a 12 volume siege of Terra subscription to finish off the Heresy... I jest

I will have a hunt around for the interviews you mentioned and give them a listen when i have a chance, thanks again!

No need to hunt, ep 137 is Gav (3) and ep 141 David A (4) and this sunday will be ep 144 w/Guy (5) on iTunes or www.facebook.com/combatphase or www.combatphase.com. Hope you enjoy!

add: There will be more finite series like this...soon, muahahaha!

Haha, the onslaught of releases will continue as surly as the golden throne endures! Thanks for the links, just in time for lunch!

[Knight of the Raven]

as surly as the golden throne endures!

Yeah, about that...

 

Cult Mechanicus codex

 

 

 

986999.M41

DESPERATE MEASURES

: The Tech-Priest custodians at work in the Emperor’s Palace uncover irrevocable failures in the mechanisms of the Golden Throne. A dozen contingency expeditions are immediately launched, including a Xanthite war procession sent through the Exhubris Portal. The Xanthites fight through Harlequin Troupes and Daemon hordes alike before reaching their intended destination. In the grave-cold oubliettes beneath Commorragh, a dark bargain is struck.

 

[Perry]

The series is coming along very nicely, and adding some interesting detail that we take for granted in 40k, for example the Black Templar's religious beliefs.

 

I need to convert myself a Marshal Dreadnought!

[JH79]

as surly as the golden throne endures!

Yeah, about that...

Cult Mechanicus codex

986999.M41

DESPERATE MEASURES

: The Tech-Priest custodians at work in the Emperor’s Palace uncover irrevocable failures in the mechanisms of the Golden Throne. A dozen contingency expeditions are immediately launched, including a Xanthite war procession sent through the Exhubris Portal. The Xanthites fight through Harlequin Troupes and Daemon hordes alike before reaching their intended destination. In the grave-cold oubliettes beneath Commorragh, a dark bargain is struck.

Haha, good call!

I wonder if the dark bargain is the continued pumping of the cash cow!?

[hopkins]

is the next one out tomorrow?

[veterannoob]

preorder, so ebook and audio tomorrow. 

What do you guys think? Usually I listen to previous book before the new release, and also before that particular author interview. But at this point I'm thinking listen to books 1-5 before reading/listening to book 6. Those who are just getting into this series, what do you think? Should I binge books 1-5 then dive into 6?

[JH79]

preorder, so ebook and audio tomorrow.

What do you guys think? Usually I listen to previous book before the new release, and also before that particular author interview. But at this point I'm thinking listen to books 1-5 before reading/listening to book 6. Those who are just getting into this series, what do you think? Should I binge books 1-5 then dive into 6?

I say go for it!

I've found it surprising how much extra information i've gleaned from a second run through of each book, i'd say more so with keeping track of the wide cast of characters and unfolding events... it's surprising as to how much has actually happened so far! I think I'm at a point now though where I'm going to wait for books 6, 7 & 8 to be available before i continue. I'm excited, yet nervous, as to how they will handle Vulkan and from what I've read summary wise on amazon he will be introduced in 6 and prominent in 7 & 8.

It may sound stupid but i really don't want anything bad to happen to him lol

[HeritorA]

Echoes of the Long War for May 14th general release. Next book #7 would be available at Warhammer Fest as pre-release title.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I'm thoroughly enjoying Echoes of the Long war - thought not much has really happened so far but I expect a glorious coup at the end from Koorland.

 

The Fists fight some orks, they catch up with the Obsidian Sky and the Palimodes. 

 

 

It appears that the Orks have originated from Ullanor? Because they were chasing down Magneric to "silence" him - not sure why? He apparently has some crazy useful information which he only finds out just before he dies? 

 

Buuuut basically the Orks have black & white armour because they are mimicking the true power - the ones who crushed them 2,000 years ago,  the Luna Wolves. Magneric realises this just before exploding as one of the Mekboys is wearing salvage Luna Wolf Mk2 Crusade armour and "such an infamous relic could only be found in one place" 

 

 

[DarkChaplain]

Which would explain the technological leaps, too. Remember The Wolf of Ash and Fire and the ork empire around Gorro.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Which would explain the technological leaps, too. Remember The Wolf of Ash and Fire and the ork empire around Gorro.

 

So it seems likely Orks returned to Ullanor and found their own archeotech? Or Gorro et al - it seems unlikely Ullanor has anything left after the Triumph. They literally paved over a continent, I can't imagine that leaves much room for xeno-tech! 

 

It seems crazy that the Imperium is so on the backfoot, if the Greenskins were the same as at Ullanor. That must have been a truly titanic conflict, without the Legions and the Emperor it's no wonder the Imperium is in such a sorry, worthless state. 

[Tiger9gamer]

I forgot I gotta avoid this thread at all costs now before I can read the book.

[Veteran Sergeant]

One thing in this series that is rather bizarre and makes no sense to me is "Where are all the rest of the Space Marines?"

 

I mean, Terra is in mortal danger, and the only Chapters that show up happen to be a loose conglomeration of Imperial Fists successors? I feel like they have leaned on that plot hook a little too hard, and now it's damaging the drywall.

[HaSY]

While the Dark Angels doing their own things lol

[God-Potato of Mankind]

One thing in this series that is rather bizarre and makes no sense to me is "Where are all the rest of the Space Marines?"

 

I mean, Terra is in mortal danger, and the only Chapters that show up happen to be a loose conglomeration of Imperial Fists successors? I feel like they have leaned on that plot hook a little too hard, and now it's damaging the drywall.

 

Defending their own realms. We know Ultramar is besieged, so I would assume Nocturne, Fenris, Mundus Planus, Medusa, Baal, Deliverance and any other Astartes fief-realms are similarly besieged. None of them have the same reputation as the Last Wall, nor do they likely have a Last Wall Protocol that would induce them to coalesce at Terra. 

 

We all know from Terra that a looooooooot of Space Marines didn't immediately make a bee-line for Terra, over their own agendas. Except the Imperial Fists of course.

[DarkChaplain]

We had various chapters mentioned previously as being busy with elsewhere, holding back the orks. Look at it this way: If they weren't holding them further away from Terra, the Throneworld would be full of Orks already. The Beast is shown in Throneworld as wanting to transport reinforcements to the moon. Guess what would happen if he didn't have to

[HeritorA]

1) EoTLW was bad. First book that was truly hard to read in the series so far.

2) Ullanor - REALLY??? FROM ALL THE PLANETS IN THE GALAXY - THEY MAKE FOR ULLANOR AGAIN?

[Veteran Sergeant]

 

One thing in this series that is rather bizarre and makes no sense to me is "Where are all the rest of the Space Marines?"

 

I mean, Terra is in mortal danger, and the only Chapters that show up happen to be a loose conglomeration of Imperial Fists successors? I feel like they have leaned on that plot hook a little too hard, and now it's damaging the drywall.

 

Defending their own realms. We know Ultramar is besieged, so I would assume Nocturne, Fenris, Mundus Planus, Medusa, Baal, Deliverance and any other Astartes fief-realms are similarly besieged. None of them have the same reputation as the Last Wall, nor do they likely have a Last Wall Protocol that would induce them to coalesce at Terra. 

 

We all know from Terra that a looooooooot of Space Marines didn't immediately make a bee-line for Terra, over their own agendas. Except the Imperial Fists of course.

 

Giving a bad explanation for it is worse than no explanation, lol.

 

There are roughly 1000 Chapters. Only 8 can make it to Terra, and they're all Imperial Fists, because only the Imperial Fists care enough about the Emperor? That's an awful line of reasoning.

[DarkChaplain]

It is barely a millennium and a half since Ullannor, and the Scars were hunting orks around that area still before the Heresy reached them. So yes, Ullanor makes sense.

 

If the Beast turns out to be an actual survivor or descendent of the Gorro empire, it seems perfectly reasonable that he'd focus in some way on Ullanor, where the Imperium celebrated their triumph over his species. We know for a fact that the Beast is exceptionally sophisticated and has cultivated a certain level of humanity within his elite. The ambassadors alone should tell you that, and it is unsurprising that they'd respect somebody like the Luna Wolves who could put up a good fight with them.

It isn't like Ullanor has been used much beyond the war against the orks and the triumph, which is symbolic for the Imperium's success at that stage. It all carries a lot of symbolism, really, and it'd surprise me if the Beast wasn't aware of that.

 

I'm more surprised why Ullanor hasn't been a thing outside of the Heresy series before. Who knows, maybe we'll witness a nice little Exterminatus in TBA?

[Grand Master Laertes]

 

 

There are roughly 1000 Chapters. 

 

no, absolutely not. There are roughly 1000 Chapters at the end of M41, after 26 Founding. In this series we are in the middle of M32, and we had only 3 Foundings, of which:

 

- the 1st is the Founding of the Space Marines Legions

- the 2nd is the disbanding of the Legions in smaller Chapters (The Apocrypha of Skaros states that 23 Chapters were created from the disbanding of the Ultramarines Legion, which was the biggest one. Some Legions were so small that they became a single Chapter. Some of these Successor Chapters died, like the Wolf Brothers. In the end, we probably had around 100 Chapters at this time, and almost surely less than that) 

- the 3rd happened in a time of relative peace, so it is unlikely that it saw the creation of many Chapters. 

 

So, it is almost impossible for the imperium to have more than 150 Chapters in active service at the time of the Ork invasion.

 

 

-----

Edit: addedd reference to lost Chapters

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Plus bear in mind the Imperium thinks it has "won" and is laughably at peace. We already know there's a huge level of anti-Space Marine mentality at the highest levels, so they likely don't have as much weight to throw around.

Plus at only 200 odd Chapters, you're only talking 200,000 Marines. That's not even a single Legion compared to history. They're all fractured by their own 2,000 year history, ideology and ancestry too. They're not a unified force at all.

You can see why the Beast is kicking the Imperium's face in when you consider these sort of things

[Hrolf the Cunning]

Isn't the 23 chapters figures from the ultras from before the legions were made 100000+. I'd just be wary asserting that with such authority, because you quite literally can't.

[Grand Master Laertes]

Isn't the 23 chapters figures from the ultras from before the legions were made 100000+. I'd just be wary asserting that with such authority, because you quite literally can't.

Well, that Apocrypha's statement have always been considered dubious even in-universe* (the bit higlighting that it does not provide the name of the supposed 23 Successor Chapters), but I think GW is going to stick with it and, if they will ever state an official number, it will be something in that order of magnitude. I don't know how many Ultramarines are still alive at this point of the Horus Heresy saga, but I think more likely that their numbers will dwindle to get in line with the Apocrypha of Skaros, and not the opposite.

*(also, Throneworld shows us how political games can hide facts as important as the death of a Chapter, so we could never be sure of anything about that)

however, I this kind of discussions are off-topic here, so we'd better move to pvt if we want to keep on talking about this argument

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Isn't the 23 chapters figures from the ultras from before the legions were made 100000+. I'd just be wary asserting that with such authority, because you quite literally can't.

 

They were broken down according to the Codex Astartes though, which specifies a standing marine limit of ~1,000 marines. The only reason they split was to enforce this, so I don't think it's unreasonable to assert that they are Codex-sized int his instance. 

 

It also makes sense numerically. The Ultramarines had what, 250,000 Legionaries at their peak? Then Calth happens. IIRC They lose around 100,000 from the Betrayal & Shadow Wars. You've then got the cleanup of Terra and the Scouring. This puts in scope around ~80,000 casualties from arriving at Terra to the Scouring and finally to the breakdown into Codex Chapters. Considering they were the least mauled Legion after the Heresy, this seems quite reasonable to assume there were ~25 1,000 man Ultramarine Chapters. 

 

Plus wasn't a Chapter 1,000 marines, even during the tenure of the Legions? I am at work so can't check the relevant book. 

 

We see throughout the book that most Chapters acknowledge they are more or less powerless against the beast without uniting together in a Last Wall style protocol. We know the Ultramarines pretty much immediately went full turtle after Istvaan, creating Imperium Secundus. Considering the Ultramarines are but a shadow of their previous selves - they would likely be utterly besieged and know that an Attack Moon orbits Terra. Considering their own predicament and their pragmatism, I don't think it's unusual for them to not make a beeline straight for Terra. Especially as they likely knew the Last Wall was happening. They might eventually link up with their successors, once their own realms are stable and then move onto Terra - exactly like they did during the Heresy. I will play devils advocate here and suggest they might be opposed to this, as they "sit tight and make our own Imperium" delayed them last time and they Emperor got shanked - they may feel slightly guilty that they were too late etc

 

Now let us consider other Chapters:

 

Salamanders - likely to have no successors. At most 1,000 to 2,000 Astartes. Not going to do much, likely very preoccupied with destroying their own attack moon. 

Raven Guard - again, likely to have no successors at this point. Same as above

White Scars - may have a few successors, but are famed for being secretive dicks. They did end up on Terra last time - so perhaps they're making an effort to arrive. 

Iron Hands - Likely to have few successors, are probably 1,000 times more emo robot than the last time Terra was threatened and don't really give a toss anymore due to cold pragmatism

Space Wolves - Likely caught up in just how much fun you can have with a galactic-scale ork incursion

Dark Angels - Renowned for pursuing their own motives over the Imperium

Blood Angels - IIRC confirmed besieged previously in the series, likely to have a few successors. Not sure why they wouldn't make for Terra though! 

 

So apart from the Sons of Sanguinius I think it's, so far, fair enough to see why other Chapters haven't leapt immediately to Terra. I'd think it strange if they didn't eventually see their way there though. Most will be still super busy with their own attack moons. I mean Terra itself hasn't managed to destroy theirs, yet it has Terra & the Imperial Fists legion (basically) there. We see a report of an Ultramarines taskforce killing a moon at Calth, but they do have 500 worlds which probably means a lot more to kill first. I imagine most Chapters are still struggling, as much as they love Terra I can't see Chapter Masters abandoning their worlds unless it's quite evidently lost, like the FIsts Exemplar. We know a lot of Chapters have been outright destroyed - they chose to die rather than rush to defend Terra. It's not been a huge amount of time either, the Astartes will return to Terra I'm sure. 

 

 Considering the next book is entitled "The Hunt for Vulkan" I think we may get an idea of what his lads are up to.