I may have made a terrible mistake.

[SW1]

Just needs a ramp and I'd be fine with it.

[march10k]

We have ways of getting warlord titans back and forth between planetary surfaces and orbit, and you would quibble about how a shadowsword was lifted onto a skyshield?!?  Just because the Thunderhawk transporter is the largest tank lift asset that GW sells a model for doesn't mean it's the biggest thing out there!

[WarriorFish]

Ramps of corpses ;)

[Black_out]

I have zero experience with Guard but I'm giggling with the thought of Horus on the table, I'm sorry I really do hope you perform well but Horus is all but unstoppable.

[Emicus]

Oh, it's not a quibble. It's perfectly fine, legal and beautiful.

 

People may have a different view on 'cheese' than I do.

 

And of course there was a ramp, a temporary one that was then removed -you wouldn't want to let your opponent have an easy way up now, would you?

[march10k]

Emi,

 

You weren't quibbling, SW1 was... I'm perfectly comfortable with it being called filthy cheese...that's precisely what it is!  But when people start coming up with "well, I'd only let you use it if you modified the skyshield model to include a 'baneblade ascension ramp'," that's lame. 

 

To be honest, the shadowsword itself has only seen the tabletop three times, and only once with the skyshield.  See, it's pretty filthy in concept to give it the dirt cheap 4++...but then there's the problem of the main gun's arc...the tradeoff is that from its elevated position, with a maximum 23.5 degree angle of depression, even stuffed into a corner, there's a ton of space where it can't target relatively short models....worse, all that dead space is up close, where assaulters want to be anyway!  So it's a pretty neat sight gag to put it up there, and it causes all sorts of foaming at the mouth on the part of the opposition, but outside of APOC, it's not really practical (there aren't too many superheavies, the shadowsword's true prey, that can hide in the dead space around the platform).

[Sheesh Mode]

Best anti Primarch gear is to bring the D. Stomp the heretic with a knight or shadowsword him

​Now that's absolute filth march10k, I hereby declare you honorary Cheesemaster for the month.

Hahaha! You think that's cheesy? Fasha the Dog is going to deploy a stormbird on one of those when we finally have our 12,000 v. 12,000 30k game just so he can benefit from its 4++ void shields.

----

30k is not broken. It simply fights very, very hard. As a Son's of Horus 30k player I find a hard hitting alpha strike army of dreadclaws, terminators, and droppods is the way to go. Dreadclaws are some nasty stuff. 100 point Av12 droppods you can deepstrike somewhere safe, then flat out towards the enemy and jink to avoid their shots. Dreadclaw - embarked assault unit has an 14" - 24" assault range (6' move + 6" disembark + 2" - 12" charge roll) Thus it is possible for Reaver squads to get where they want to go and wreck face.

Do not despair. Your tempestus have incredible maneuverability and can deploy special weapons all over the map. Most 30k armies cannot do this without reducing their tactical ability in other areas. Plus, every dead marine hurts. Sons of Horus like hard hitting elite armies. Your plasma and hot-shots will give them cause for concern. So long as you pay attention to movement ranges, keep your units supported and your firelines open you will be okay. Just do not be surprised when tons of models start dying. That's how 30k works.

In regards to list building and the spirit of play. Please, for the love of Nurgle don't play WAAC. 30k is fully capable of hard hitting, ball crushing armies that can leave an opponent stunned. But it takes finesse and strategic nuance to pull it off. Every amazing unit in 30k has a weakness even Horus Luprecal (Protip: He's 500pts and doesn't like mass plasma). It is your responsibility to determine what the weakness is and exploit it. From my Sons of Horus perspective, dealing with a multitude of fast units supported by knights is a bit of a headache. Throwing terminators and reavers at Tauroxes and Tempestus is overkill. But I wouldn't ignore them because of their fire output. In all likelihood I would focus my attention on the knights and eliminate them as early as possible. A couple of Primaris Lightning Strike Fighters and/or a terminator squad would do the trick.

From there it's the chore of chasing after those stupid Humvees.

Questions:

Why TDA for the Inquisitor? Who is he deploying with? Is he chilling in the lone taurox?

Why include Skitarrii? They do not seem to fit any particular role for your army.

Consider the following: You can save points be reducing your Tempestus squad sizes and field more units as a result.

[march10k]

Another favorite piece of my cheese is a culexus in a vendetta/valkyrie.  Of course, that's merely a response to the uber-cheese of invisi-stars!

[Master Antaeus]

There is hope!  I have just gotten my dirty cheeto fingers on a copy of HH 5, which has the rules for Imperialis Militia.  Now we're cooking with crisco.  Still working on what I'm going to do with them, but with Kasrkin, maybe I could do Interex with a Sydonian dragoon as my Sagittarius power armor.  Or maybe I'd leave the dragoon at home.

[Bomber]

What? Nothing wrong with giving your fully-kitted shadowsword a 4++ for 75 points...is there?

I admit I laughed at the pic. This is even better!

40k IG vs 30k Marines will definitely be an uphill battle. Good luck!!

[Master Antaeus]

The Inquisitor is in TDA to provide tactical flexibility to whatever unit he's with (can deep strike with a unit if I need him to because some numbskull decided that Commissars in an all airborne unit shouldn't be able to DS.  Finally, if I dropped him and declared one of my tempestor primes as the warlord, I would effectively be deep striking slay the warlord to my opponent because those command squads land, kill whatever big ticket item has recently offended me and then they get...

 

-run over by a lord of skulls (thunderblitz)

-hacked to pieces by gretchin

-beaten down by a big mech

-annihilated in pornographic fashion by incubi

-boltered to death by chaos marines

-boltered to death by sisters

-boltered to death by space wolves

-havoc missiled to death

-used as bonus charging movement by bloodletters

-vector striked to death by a helldrake emerging from reserves

 

And, in one spectacular example, they were demolishered by a baneblade they had reduced to a single hull point.

 

You get the idea.  The TDA gives him the psycannon, which is equivalent to about another half squad worth of shooting and some actual CC punch as well as a good armor and decent invulnerable save.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, in fact, a Knight can actually demolish a Primarch. D in melee and a 6 on stomp means no Horus. Also, regarding 30k vs 40k, 40k has the upper hand due to cheaper units and more broken rules. Even IG have their Steel Host, which is amazeballs against a Legion when you bring those Executioners.

[Terminus]

A knight pretty much has to roll that 6 to kill Horus, otherwise it's dead meat.

 

He gets 6+D3 attacks against it, hitting on 3+ with one re-roll, and S10. On average, he will inflict one glance and 3 pens per round of combat. If Horus doesn't roll hot for his first round of attacks and the Knight survives, that is pretty much its only chance to kill Horus, because it more than likely will be scrap next turn (but then at least you get to explode on Horus).

 

A Lancer would have a slightly better chance, since it gets an invulnerable in melee, has more attacks, and can potentially concuss Horus for the first round of combat. Even better if it's a Senechal, for a 4++ and WS5 to deny Horus his bonus D3 attacks.

 

In any event, I brazenly accepted his challenge and told him I'd be bringing a 40k army to add insult to injury.  Perhaps you have some idea where this is going.

How is this adding insult to injury? For the most part, 40K is far more powerful than 30K.

[march10k]

 

 

In any event, I brazenly accepted his challenge and told him I'd be bringing a 40k army to add insult to injury.  Perhaps you have some idea where this is going.

How is this adding insult to injury? For the most part, 40K is far more powerful than 30K.

 

Now that I'm actually doing 30k, I mostly agree.  40k has some significant advantages on the infantry side, like freer access to special and heavy weapons and FAR BETTER access to storm shields.  On the other hand, 30k has some pretty beastly anti-tank shooting on its vehicles, and porting mortis contemptors into 40k is broken.  Pair of BS5 godhammers with skyfire on demand?  ZOMG, goodbye fliers!  30k vehicles also have liberal access to ceramite armor, which is bad news for 40k's reliance on melta.  Overall, I'd give the nod to 40k...I  think the issue in this specific case is not that 30k is better than 40k, its that Horus trumps all.  He's like Nagash.

[Terminus]

The biggest advantage 40K has crazy formation bonuses, much cheaper unit choices (especially specialists like assault or bike marines), and a higher ratio special/heavy weapons in their troop selection. They can bring more and better troops that actually do something, while getting some bonuses for bringing them. In 30K, you gotta meet a bunch of restrictions, like "take 600 points of bolters so you can get this minor benefit".

 

Ironically, the Mortis Contemptor is a bit meh compared to his heavy support brethren, but I see a big resurgence for this guy with the Calth box.

[march10k]

The heavy support dreads are ballers, but the mortis contemptor's "skyfire on demand" aspect is attractive from the perspective of checking the air defense box with a multi-capable unit.  That beats the hell out of something like a hydra that is a complete waste of points if the enemy has no fliers.  Having played against mortis contemptors in 40k, they're a lot scarier in 40k than they appear to be in 30k...especially when parked in ruins tall enough to get  4+ obscuration.

[Master Antaeus]

It's not so bad in this case as I'm playing a fairly pillow-fisted army (notable exception being the Knights).  For travel purposes, I will probably drop the AdMech in favor of more durable metal Kasrkin/Inquisitorial guys and more expendable plastic Tempestus.

 

Either way, that'd be a hell of an account.

 

"Captain Mogridge, reporting as ordered, sir!"

"Be at ease, Captain.  I have some concerns about your account of the fight on Espenaes."

"Yes sir?" 

"It says here that you and the rest of Alpha company fought... Horus Lupercal?"

"Yes, sir."

"The Horus Lupercal?"

"Not for me to say, sir."

"But his men called him Horus Lupercal?"

"Yes, sir."

(To Inquisitor) "They've lost it.  Space 'em."

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

I cannot wait to hear this batrep. Plenty of pic please