RULES - Unified Pariahs

[Grifftofer]

I know this was discussed previously, but behind the scenes those of us who are running Pariah-heavy Legions have decided to try to unify our differing rules under a single, modular, banner. This thread is to discuss the development of this subset.

 

Ok. To start us off I'll try to explain my idea in more detail. Using the rules that we have already come up with I hope for us to create a selection of categories in which models with the Pariah rule may purchase upgrades to their capabilities. In this way we can have a single rule that allows each of the 4(?) legions to express their nature in different ways. Each category would have differing levels of power, of which you may purchase one for an appropriate points cost.

 

For example the initial list of categories that I have been considering is:

• Dark Presence: This would have fear effects in it. Initially working only vs psykers, but having upgrades to work against all enemies.
• Indomitable Will: This would be bonuses to Deny the Witch rolls. Counting as mastery level 1-3 when defending against psychic powers culminating in being completely immune to all psychic effects used on you.
• Psychic Void: This is generic psychic defence. Giving bonus dice to the warp charge pool in your opponents turn.
• Aetheric Tempest: Disrupts enemy psyker concentration. -1 to manifest powers against the unit, improving to within X" etc.
• Soulless: Disrupts enemy morale. -X to Leadership within X". Initially only vs psykers, but against everyone for an upgrade.

So using the above list a Pariah would be able to buy up to 5 powers that show his ability in different areas. Obviously the more powerful effects would cost more to add on and a Pariah wouldn't need to take options from all of the categories. I would also envision that perhaps the different legions might have different focuses within this list, so one might focus on Dark Presence, another on Psychic Void. These could then be listed in the legions' individual appendices.

 

I'm probably going to be updating through the day as I come up with a list of specific powers to include and initial point values for them. But even so, what do people think?

Edited November 28, 2017 by Lord Thørn

[Big Bad Squig]

I like the look of that, as it means (1) we can have a generic pariah consul and (2) those consuls could all be unique, allowing you to take multiple consuls to perform different duties.  There are then two points/questions I have:

1. Seeing as Dark Presence and Soulless are the same as is stands, what about including something like the Instant Death (or more likely Murderous Strike) and Preferred Enemy abilities the Culexus has?
2. I have been thinking about a Brotherhood of Pariahs type thing.  How could we tackle that - maybe the abilities are downgraded the more of the squad dies, as per Pink Horrors?

[MikhalLeNoir]

and what about the special units? for example the luth won't be a problem, cause we can take a power which resembles an psyout grenade. but the comheadair for example have some unique trait that i wouldn't want to cahnge cause i allready bought me some models specifically resemble the techmarine and the focusgenerator.

 

make things short: thex produce a void shield as long as they dont move and protect all who are defined range away. or without the focus they can insult the enemy psyker a bit. but only if they stand still. the wardens of light can control their pariah ability to their masks so it is more focused. would destroy quite a bit of ruels and lore up to the primarch lv. soi like the idea for general troops, but want to have my freedom for the specials. or else we would need more modules or the posibility, that each legion can have a legion trait

 

so, legion specific "special forces" are still out there?

 

 

about the brotherhood of pariah....alphariusomegon andd myself tried to implement it in the index astartes wardens of light, but it is somekind of goofy and very complicated, so we had given the standard marine only adamantium will if they were blanks. so it stays streamlined and easy

Edited October 30, 2015 by MikhalLeNoir

[Grifftofer]

Well thinking about it a little more. I thought that maybe each legion could start with one of the basic powers as a compulsory option. Sort of as a base competency within their legions specialisation.

 

As to the Soulless and Dark Presence you're right there is a lot of overlap, maybe we could merge them. I'm open to the idea of adding or merging the categories, as they were only my initial thoughts so I am happy to accept suggestions. The murderous strike/instant death thing could be interesting too, though I guess it would be both OP and pathetically weak depending on who you face against and who has the ability. As for Brotherhoods I did consider that. I think that either as you say they get weaker as models die, or maybe just restrict them to the lower levels relatively, but allow them to continue at that level until the end. It's another area that would need separate balancing as units should pay more for the abilities due to increase area of effect and resilience compared to single models.

 

I think your special units would probably be mostly fine as they are. The unit with the focus, is very unique and should probably stay as it is, without gaining the pariah special rule we're creating. The option is always there for you to not add the pariah rule to units :P So you could leave all your things as they are and just have the Pariah as a consul option.

[MikhalLeNoir]

ahhh, fluffwise they count as pariah secundus at least, but rule wise they arent? fits ^^

[simison]

I wish I could add something substantial, but my Pariahs were the least developed. That and I was simply going to use Grifft's system (with permission, of course). I do like how we're buying the levels instead of creating a Pariah discipline. It should be a contrast to how psykers normally work.

[Grifftofer]

Ok update one. The base idea.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn171/Grifftofer/Pariah%20Rules_zps2rrc29gr.jpg

The yellow boxes are the base powers that the Pariah can buy. Each offshoot represents a direction that the power can be improved in. A power can be improved in multiple vectors on one model, you just pay the corresponding points costs for all upgrades. Looking it over now I think that the categories won't be needed as I was able to streamline it a little better than I was hoping.

 

I think that the points costs will be reasonable, but its very much an eyeball and gut approach to it so far and I'm happy to tweak where appropriate. If anyone has any troubles understanding what I mean by anything,  just ask.

 

[MikhalLeNoir]

and how come the pariah lv into play?

 

tert you can choose 2 traits,

sec, 3 traits

 

and prime we have 5 traits?

 

or will there be stronger traits according to the lv of pariahness?

[Grifftofer]

I've honestly not thought about that yet. It may be that there are no 'levels' as such. Perhaps it could just be that characters/units can take up to 2 powers, ICs up to 4 and Primarchs as many as they want :P

[MikhalLeNoir]

lol. as gwal won#t take any, cause he has his mask, that would really disturb me^^

Primarchs are special, so they could have special versions

 

i like the pariah levels as you had them, so implementing them would be great.

Edited October 30, 2015 by MikhalLeNoir

[Grifftofer]

I'll do my best. Might need a day or two to get it all worked out though. I don't want to restrict people too much, but the levels thing was quite cool too. Still I'm quite happy with where this is considering it's only about a half day of work.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Yap. Maybe in 2 days we have some mind of multiple choice dating sim and afterwards we have a new character.( anyone played rivals schools 2 on dreamcast? On the jalanese version there was suxh a dating sim to enhance your character stats. Was the first and only game I ever translated into german from japanese. Best thing was. Man it was so awesome)

[Grifftofer]

Ok so an obvious thought struck me. The Tertius, Secundus and Primus levels were intended to be a measure of how powerful the Pariah's abilities are. It just so happens we have another system that judges how powerful a Pariah's abilities are... Points!

 

Yep, my wondrous solution is to say that a Pariah (Tertius) may spend up to 30 points on abilities, a Pariah (Secundus) may spend up to 60 and a Pariah (Primus) up to 100. This gives a nice amount of flexibility in my mind at least and means you can decide to go for breadth or depth of ability at your choice.

 

I think I may combine the two Indomitable willbase abilities together and add a doesn't affect friendly models upgrade for the psychic void 'tree' too. So then I can do something along the lines of:

• Any Pariah with Legiones Astartes (Wardens of Light) must take the "focus" upgrade for any of their powers that have that option. [shows their training to focus their powers against their foes].
• Any Pariah with Legiones Astartes (Godslayers) must take the "Soulless" ability at at least the murderous strike level [it was your idea :P].
• Any Pariah with Legiones Astartes (Grave Stalkers) must take the "Indomitable Will" ability and may never take the "focus" upgrade for any of their powers [They don't try to control their powers, just let them have free reign].
• Any Pariah with Legiones Astartes (Warriors of Peace ) must take "...." [Ok I have no idea what would fit best for these guys, but I'm sure you get my point by now :P].

If you guys have better suggestions for what you think your legion's defining trait should be comment below.

[Big Bad Squig]

Nice.  I would go for Indomitable Will or Psychic Void for Godslayers though, as all they really can do is suppress psychic energy.  Although, the more I think about it, the more I want a psyker murder machine http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/msn-wink.gif

[MikhalLeNoir]

Lol. I like it. For the Warriors of Peace maybe something that resembles their massed infantery with some units. On them the brotherhood rule would fit.

 

All under the sky;)

[Grifftofer]

Well the murder machine upgrade will be there for you if you ever want it :P

 

So this is the updated options list.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn171/Grifftofer/Pariah%20Rules_zpsut2ryxej.jpg

Yellow is the base, blue is a 'focus' upgrade and white is a regular upgrade. I realised I needed to add a vs psyker base level to Aetheric Tempest. I've also moved the titles around to make them fit better, IMO of course.

 

The big thing that is left is to discuss the points. Unless people have ideas for additions/changes to the abilities above. How do people feel about the costs listed above? (This is also for anyone just dropping in, not just those with Pariah Legions.)

[Grifftofer]

Some more thoughts. The points above I think will work for individuals, but not so much for units. I think that any unit should pay a small surcharge for the ability to take Pariah 'skills'. based mainly on the fact that they have increased ability to absorb damage whilst still gaining the benefit of the abilities. Plus they will also have a much larger footprint for the purposes of the area abilities.

 

Twisted Brotherhood (+15 points)

A unit with this special rule may purchase abilities from the Pariah trees up to a maximum of 45 points. The bonus for the ability is only factored in once for the unit, not for each model. If an ability has a ranged effect it may be measured from any model in the unit with this rule. A unit with this rule may not be joined by an Independent Character that does not have the Pariah special rule. [Not fixed on this last sentence, though it seems to make thematic sense.]

 

Pariah (Tertius, Secundus, Primus)

A model with this special rule may purchase abilities from the Pariah trees. A model with the Tertius level of this rule may purchase up to 30 points of abilities. A model with the Secundus level of this rule may purchase up to 60 points of abilities. A model with the Primus level of this rule may purchase up to 100 points of abilities.

 

Only models with the following special rules may also have the Pariah or Twisted Brotherhood special rules. In addition they have specific restrictions on the abilities they may purchase:

• Legiones Astartes (Godslayers) - Must always take the Psychic Void ability, before purchasing any others.
• Legiones Astartes (Wardens of Light) - Must always take the Focus upgrade for any ability they purchase.
• Legiones Astartes (Grave Stalkers) - Must always take the Indomitable Will ability, before purchasing any others. May never take the Focus upgrade for any ability they purchase.
• Legiones Astartes (Warriors of Peace) - Must always take the Soulless ability, before purchasing any others.

 

Other than haggling points values I don't know if there's too much left to change here. Kinda feel bad for saying this would take some time to figure out. I always seem to get that flash of inspiration after I've said I need some time to think about something. For this kind of thing at least

[Big Bad Squig]

On the consuls, how about Tertius for a centurion level character, and Secundus for a praetor? That could leave Primus for special characters and Primarchs only.

 

EDIT: Another question I have is that, amongst the other three pariah legions, which can also take Psykers? (Godslayers cannot)

Edited October 30, 2015 by Big Bad Squig

[Grifftofer]

I think I could see that being flexible based on the Legion. For the Grave Stalkers I intend to keep things roughly as they are. So my Blacksouls may take up to Secundus and my consuls up to Primus. I don't anticipate always spending the full points on them though. For other Legions I can see Tertius being for Characters, Secundus for Independent Characters and Primus for Special Characters. Or even doing it as you say. I hope that by having the abilities be balanced points-wise it will be more of a fluff thing to assign Tertius, Secundus and Primus to models.

[MikhalLeNoir]

The Wardens of Light can't field any psykers. The inactive gene is enough to surpress any psyker talent.

 

But I am thinking of restricting the pariah ability to 50 % of the army to show. Thst only half of the legion has an activated pariahgene. Special characters plus special units would not count. But i have problem formulating this in a rule

Edited October 30, 2015 by MikhalLeNoir

[Grifftofer]

The Grave Stalkers can't either, to begin with at least. I'm not sure what I'm going to do after their corruption by tzeentch though.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Prevent use of Psykers as per a Legion rule ('Becalmed Mind', 'Untouched Souls', 'Blankety Blanks', or any other evocative name) similar to the Salamanders removal of Destroyers and Moritats ; perhaps a general ban, rather than the nonesense limitation on nonPrimary detachments. Maybe ban Navigators; the Drowned ban Navigators as Agents.

 

In regards to the 50% limitation, perhaps just limit the amount of individual units (including Independent Characters), I'd suggest just having it an either or, via a Rite of War. I believe a few of your chaps Mikh can be 'unmasked' letting through their Pariah sense. This could be represented by having the legion normally considered 'Masked', and in Rite of War, allow the Legiones Astartes be considered 'Unmasked', losing the 'Masked rule'. Unmasked units get the Pariah rule. Perhaps limit the effect of allies; at least making most 'Allies of Convenience/Fellow Warriors' unless they are already Sworn Brothers AND have models with the Pariah rule.

 

In regards to Grifft; Sworn Brothers/Battle Brothers is tricky unless they are both Pariahs, especially as yours are entirely Pariahs. Perhaps as a Rite of War gain access to non Specific Daemons, Tzeentch Daemons and Malefic, but can only summon aforementioned types, allow Librarians and specific IC's and unitswho can trade the Pariah rule for Daemon

[Grifftofer]

Some really good ideas in there. You've started my gears turning on those later bits and pieces. Thanks Hesh

[Grifftofer]

Ok. So not really any changes, but I've typed out the rules as they currently stand in the format that I think will go into the book. I've also updated my thread to account for the new changes.

 

Pariah (Tertius, Secundus, Primus)
A model with this special rule may purchase powers from the Pariah Abilities (see below). A model with the Tertius level of this rule may purchase up to 30 points of abilities. A model with the Secundus level of this rule may purchase up to 60 points of abilities. A model with the Primus level of this rule may purchase up to 100 points of abilities.

Twisted Brotherhood (+15 points)
A unit with this special rule may purchase powers from the Pariah Abilities (see below) up to a maximum of 45 points. The bonus for the ability is only factored in once for the unit, not for each model. If an ability has a ranged effect it may be measured from any model in the unit with this rule. A unit with this rule may not be joined by an Independent Character that does not have the Pariah special rule.

Only models with the following special rules may also have the Pariah or Twisted Brotherhood special rules. In addition they have specific restrictions on the abilities they may purchase:

• Legiones Astartes (Godslayers): Must always take the Psychic Void ability, before purchasing any others.
• Legiones Astartes (Wardens of Light): Must always take the Focus upgrade for any ability they purchase.
• Legiones Astartes (Grave Stalkers): Must always take the Indomitable Will ability, before purchasing any others. May never take the Focus upgrade for any ability they purchase.
• Legiones Astartes (Warriors of Peace): Must always take the Soulless ability, before purchasing any others.

 

Pariah Abilities
The powers of a Pariah are split into five categories: Aetheric Tempest, Dark Presence, Indomitable Will, Psychic Void and Soulless. A model or unit with access to these abilities may purchase from any of the categories, subject to any points limits and Legion specialisations. Where the rules refer to Psykers/Pariahs they also implicitly refer to the Brotherhood of Psykers/Twisted Brotherhood rules as well.

Aetheric Tempest [5/10 points]
The winds of the empyrean swirl around the Pariah draining the very life-force from his foes.
The Pariah gains the Murderous Strike/Instant Death special rule on all of their melee attacks, when used vs a model with the Psyker special rule.

• The Pariah may upgrade this ability to effect all opponents. [+5 points]

Dark Presence [5/15 points]
The very presence of the Pariah instills a dread feeling into their enemy’s heart.
The Pariah gains the Fear (Psykers)/Fear special rule.

Indomitable Will [15 points per level]
The Pariah is particularly resilient to warp-fuelled powers.
The Pariah provides +1 dice to the Warp Charge pool in the opponent’s turn and has one ML when rolling for Deny the Witch, for every level purchased. Maximum of three levels.

• The Pariah becomes completely immune to all psychic powers. Requires three levels of the base power. [+15 points]
• The Pariah may roll Deny the Witch for units within 6”/12”. [+10/20 points]

Psychic Void [5 points]
Psykers find the presence of a Pariah limits their ability to draw upon the powers of the warp.
Psykers targeting the Pariah, or his unit, suffer a -1 penalty to rolls to manifest psychic powers.

• Rather than suffering a -1, Psykers targeting the Pariah, or his unit, require 6s to manifest psychic powers. [+15 points]
• Psykers also suffer the effect of this power if they are within 6”/9”/12” of the Pariah. [+5/10/15 points]
• Focus: This power only affects enemies. [+5 points]

Soulless [5/10 points]
The gaze of the Pariah chills the very marrow unsettling even the most disciplined of opponents.
Models with the Psyker special rule/models who do not have the Pariah special rule, suffer -1 to their Leadership value when in combat with the Pariah.

• Increase the penalty to Leadership by 1. To a maximum of -3 Leadership. [+10 points per additional -1]
• Models suffer the effect of this power if they are within 6”/9”/12” of the Pariah. [+5/10/15 points]
• Focus: This power only affects enemies. [+5 points]

[simison]

I find it hilarious that the Warriors of Peace get the Soulless. It plays off the supposed 'zen' they're supposed to have. Good work.