RULES - Unified Pariahs

[simison]

Alright, we have a name. 

 

Here are some mechanical errors I found in your big post, Grifft:

 

"...abilities; [a Pariah] (Secundus) may..."

 

"...Will, Psychic Void[,] and Soulless." (We are using Oxford Commas)

 

"...may upgrade this ability to [a]ffect all opponents."

 

"...Indomitable Will base ability[,] he may now choose..."

 

"Having trained [in] the martial traditions of his Legion[,] he decides to focus on..."

 

"Wardens of Light, Grave Stalkers[,] and Warriors of Peace..."

 

"...that lies dormant in all of their legionaries[,] these Legions may never..." 

 

"...power fist, thunder hammer[,] or chainfist."

 

On my next run-through, I'm going to eye all of the point costs since I've been working hard in that area.

[Grifftofer]

Thanks for all that Simison, grammar was never my strong point. I've updated the post to use your fixes. Look forward to your opinions on the points too. I'm pretty happy I haven't undercosted anything, but some things may be a little too expensive given the changes of the last year or so.

[simison]

Point Calculator:

 

Aetheric Tempest - Fine

• Instant Death vs. Psyker - Fine
• Instant Death vs. everyone - +15 Points

Dark Presence - Fine

• Fear against all - +5 Points

Indomitable Will - Fine

• Complete Immunity - +25 Points (Includes the required three levels of Will)
• Range (6/9/12) - +5/10/15

Psychic Void - Fine

• Need 6's - Fine
• Range - Fine
• Focus - +10 points

Soulless - Fine

• Against Others - Fine
• Increased Penalty to LD - +5 points per level
• Range - Fine
• Focus - +10 points

 

Note, these are replacement costs, not additional costs to the original costs.

 

That concludes my sweep.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Poor wardens ofnlight. Have to pay the most^^

[Grifftofer]

Point Calculator:

 

Aetheric Tempest - Fine

• Instant Death vs. Psyker - Fine
• Instant Death vs. everyone - +15 Points

Dark Presence - Fine

• Fear against all - +5 Points

Indomitable Will - Fine

• Complete Immunity - +25 Points (Includes the required three levels of Will)
• Range (6/9/12) - +5/10/15

Psychic Void - Fine

• Need 6's - Fine
• Range - Fine
• Focus - +10 points

Soulless - Fine

• Against Others - Fine
• Increased Penalty to LD - +5 points per level
• Range - Fine
• Focus - +10 points

 

Note, these are replacement costs, not additional costs to the original costs.

 

That concludes my sweep.

 

I'm fine with most of these. I just want to ask why you feel that being able to use Aetheric Tempest against everyone is worth so many points? It makes it so that you're valuing Murderous Strike at 20 points as a special rule and Instant Death at 25, which considering that neither actually help you wound or get through armour seems like a lot to me.

[MikhalLeNoir]

He fears for the life of Alex? :)

[Sigismund229]

Poor wardens ofnlight. Have to pay the most^^

Evidently you never experienced the pain of having to pay for frag&krak grenades of your Black Templar when everyone else got them for free

[Grifftofer]

Also I think you'll find that you have to pay the same amount as me. But only if you pick one of the two categories that have a focus or the same category as me. If you pick any of the remaining two categories you can start out with as little as 5 points worth of abilities :D

[MikhalLeNoir]

Yeah giving the twisted brotherhoods aetheric blast gnahahhaah.

 

 

And oh...sigi..that hurts...who made this mess?

[Sigismund229]

Yeah giving the twisted brotherhoods aetheric blast gnahahhaah.

 

 

And oh...sigi..that hurts...who made this mess?

Apparently Graham McNiel, which explains why the fluff is so awesome but some of the rules are meh

But then this was back in the good old days when we had our own codex...

Edited August 15, 2016 by Sigismund229

[simison]

Grifft, I don't understand. Do you have to buy the base ability and the Instant Death rule before buying that it has to apply to everyone? It was my intent to have the Instant Death vs. everyone be priced at 20 points.

[Grifftofer]

You have to buy both the upgrades to have Instant Death apply to everyone. If you don't buy the Instant Death Upgrade then you would only have Murderous Strike, which would apply against everyone. But if your intention was to have ID vs everyone to be 20 points then I'll just adjust the second upgrade to be +10 rather than +15 points.

[Grifftofer]

Ok. So I couldn't wait for next month :P Here is where I'm at with the Pariah abilities (in a hopefully easy to follow flow-chart-type-thing):

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn171/Grifftofer/Pariah%20Rules_zpsroxkwqdx.png

 

The big changes since the last set are that I moved the psychic power invulnerability to it's own branch, reduced the maximum Mastery Level that a Pariah can get and I combined all the range upgrades into a single combined upgrade. This way Pariah forces can't get quite so many defensive warp charges, units that are simply immune to psychic powers (like the Sisters of Silence) without boosting army defense are now possible. And it won't be possible to have different Pariah abilities with different ranges, if you have the range upgrade all your appropriate abilities are that range. This should make tracking things a little easier, as you only have to measure once for all of them.

 

As the main purpose of this was to bring the Pariah abilities into line with the Sisters of Silence rules I decided to work out how much the abilities would cost to make the Sisters' Psychic Abomination rule:

• Psykers within range -3Ld [15pts]

• Psykers within range only harness Warp Charges on a 6 [20pts]

• Psykers within range do not generate Warp Charges [10pts]

• Never be targeted or affected by psychic powers [15pts]

• Blessings/Maledictions within range are deactivated [15pts]

• 12” range [15pts]

• TOTAL: 90pts

I'm not too sure, if this is reasonable until we see the Sisters units in 30K, but Militia Grenadiers (the closest comparison that I can find currently) with Boltguns and these rules come in at 185 points, compared to the 40K sister 150. So maybe we have some tweaking ahead.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Very good and understandable flo chart.

 

So elts see: godfellas must be either psychic void or soulless.

 

Grave Diggas are the abominatiom

 

Warriors of pierce, hmmm. Soulless, maybe dark presence?

 

And wardens of blight focus^^

 

 

Right? Although.I would say as supressants the godfellows fit better to the soulless category

[Grifftofer]

Well if we were to simply keep the same powers as before:

• Grave Stalkers = Indomitable Will (Army Defense)
• Godslayers = Psychic Void (Warp Charge manipulation)
• Warriors of Peace = Dark Presence (Leadership penalties)
• Wardens = Must take focus, but can go into any category.

Soulless might be a good fit for some of the godslayers, but most only suppress rather than outright cancel warp shennanigans. Or at least that's my understanding.

 

I'm open to changing it up a little bit, if people think something else would fit better. Drak, I know you've taken over the Warriors since this was written first time around. Are you happy with the selection or do you think something else is a better match?

[MikhalLeNoir]

I have always this story in mind where koschei attacks the emperor(or was it icarion or alex?) and he tries to pull of some warp magic a

But the spell is dispeled when it reaches him. Maybe restrict the godslayers in the range field? When having them soulless?

[Grifftofer]

IIRC Koscheii is completely immune to psychic powers, but I'll let Squig chime in himself if he wants to play around with their 'default' ability.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Yeah. Just thoight the marines would somehow mirror their primarch.

 

 

Hope nobody uses telekinesis on him.

[~Drakzilla~]

I think at this stage soulless would be a better fit for the Warriors.

[Big Bad Squig]

Yeah, Koschei himself and the strongest suppressants in the legion are just outright immune, but I think that either Soulless or Void could work fine. If the WoP are taking Soulless then I'm happy to stick with Psychic Void for the Godslayers

[Grifftofer]

Fair enough. I think it will be fine for the Warriors to have that, given that so far they can only get it through the Nemesis Consul. I won't make the alterations just yet, as I want the 30K rules for comparison. But once those are in I'll sort it all out. And make adjustments to price where appropriate for units whose abilities have changed in cost.

[Grifftofer]

Ok. Given that the 30k rules for pariahs seem to be a significant departure from those used previously in 40k I think that the rules I've written previously should be temporarily sidelined so that we can maybe try to come up with something that fits within the 30k context better.

 

So first I'm just going to quickly summarise the Sisters pariah rules (paraphrased rather than direct copy). The base ability that all the sisters have in common provides:

• Complete Immunity to any powers that target/would effect them. Plus an immunity to the effects of Telepathy Blessings used by units against them (no Invisibility shenanigans here)
• -1Ld (-2 if Psyker) to all units within 12". Fearless units and other Pariahs ignore this modifier.
• Units within 12" must re-roll Deny the Witch.
• Daemons within 12" suffer -1T (vehicles suffer +1 to rolls on the damage table instead).
• -1 to rolls to manifest psychic powers within 12" (increases to -2 if in base contact).

Some sisters then have an extra special rule that enhances them with the following:

• Models within 6" do not generate Warp Charges.
• Psykers in base contact at the beginning of any psychic phase must roll a Ld test. Failure means they cannot cast powers and roll Perils with a -1 penalty.

 

Now I quite like the ways that some of these abilities work as they, in some ways, seem much more subtle than some of those in 40k (and my previous rules). What I'm wondering is whether people think I should try and rework the modular approach I've made before to match this new list of powers or if I should make another approach (either simple levels such as the Sisters have or something else)?

 

I think that it is worth putting some time into reconsidering these as they are fairly fundamental to the working of a number of the Legions. Plus if we decide further down the line that the ideas don't work we always have the fallback of the previous efforts.

[~Drakzilla~]

Personally, I think having simple levels similar to the Sisters would be a nice, streamlined approach, rather than having the various categories that we do currently. Keeps it consistent while allowing for some gradation in power levels.

 

If we want to introduce variety, why not have it so that each of the 4 Pariah legions comes with its own special rule in addition? To reflect the differences in these legions' pariahs?

[MikhalLeNoir]

I like the actual form but am open for changes.

 

I think Draks idea is not so bad. But what rules for the for?

 

And what about the nemesis? Will our lvs of power stay?

[~Drakzilla~]

Each of us with a Pariah Legion should probably brainstorm fitting rules that would set their pariahs apart. So for instance, since the Warriors are more martial-arts oriented, their powers might inflict penalties to enemy WS. (just spitballing ideas here)

 

I assume the Nemesis would also follow the level system, but perhaps with access to a higher level than other pariahs.

 

Also, looking over the names for the elite Sisters, what if instead of Nemesis we called the Pariah Consul an Oblivion Knight? Or Oblivion-something? Maybe just Oblivian? Idk, but I'm really digging that word for pariahs.