Emicus Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Readers with long memories may remember I have a small Imperial Guard force, which has been temporarily bolstered by the local PDF to take on a larger Imperial Fists army. The mission is Emperors Will to secure some interesting looking fauna, it's probably very valuable and we don't want those "fists" to steal our glory! They're probably Chaos Marines dressing up to trick us anyway, AFFIX BAYONETTES! You can read the batrep in all it's glory with pictures and everything over on my blog, I'm back from a month of inactivity with exams and health issues but now.. oh yeah now it's time to roll some dice and write about it The Emperor protects,Emicus out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I've updated the title for you, but you can edit it through the full editor on the OP :tu: Looks like you had limited options from deployment which made your opponent's life a bit easier and constrained your game. Plenty to improve upon next time :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 Ah I didn't know that. Thanks :)I don't know what is up with the site lately. It's never liked me with frequent crashes and horrendous formatting and copypasting when writing posts before but now it's actively fighting back. Can't even upload pictures getting an error message.Isn't the edge browser supported? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 The B&C doesn't support anything in exact terms, just an up to date standards compliant browser. If you're having issues try using a different browser, there may be issues with Edge or a plug in so if it has a safe mode give that a go. If you have more problems try posting here, the more information you can provide about the issue the better I think you've picked up on the main issues on your battle already. Your opponent's list wasn't a particularly great one, against Guard the best option for Marines is to close in so having Marines that are that much better than normal ones isn't much difference to us. It's all the 2+ saves that do matter - you've got to either muster enough fire power to drown them in dice or apply some AP2. From both sides of the coin it's usually the former I find more effective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 mm throwing away the Wyverns with bad positioning as well as the Plasmacutioner with single screen compared to double screen on the Exterminator (what was I thinking!) cost me the units I needed to deal with the Honour Guard.What would the forum bring to deal with a Landraider? Is it worth to deal with it even?In this game I had 2 Meltaguns glancing on 6s and 3 battletanks doing the same so I didn't feel it was worth to even attempt, but it got me thinking about a counter and I can't really think of one. The Landraider isn't particularly scary, it's more about it's occupants, so would you bother to take it on? And with what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Demolishers. Demolishers every day, Demolishers all day. I cannot remember the last time I made an IG list without at least two. Often with two Thunderers as well (good times.) Conversion Beamers are a mess with IG because we like being far way. That unit should have eaten the Wyverns first, if only to secure Slay the Warlord. You also needed to protect those melta veterans with everything you have since they're your best bet for silencing that Land Raider. It taking out your Wyverns are really a big reason why you lost. Those amazing things can break apart even +2 armor save units, which is exactly what you needed right then. Suggestions: Drop some points somewhere (the CCS doesn't seem to do much) and upgrade those two battle tanks to Demolishers (split them up while you're at it.) Give both veteran squads meltaguns and three of them to boot. When that raider comes rolling about you don't want to do things halfway just so you can stay in your rolling coffin. Hope out and give them all three barrels of death! Keep your command tank squadron homogeneous. One tank is great at taking out +2 saves and the other...isn't. This means you're one Ld9 roll from mostly wasting a tank. If your roll Ld9 like I do, that is every turn. Don't even bother and just setup the unit to do one thing really well. Target priority is key to playing IG. Pick out what can hurt you the most and smash it first. In this case, it was the techmarine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 Some interesting suggestions there Librisrogue, you feel a 24" blast template is the best way to deal with AV14? I suppose it's the strength that does it at S10 but hmm.. Means they're already up in my lines beating me up.As for Meltaguns, bear in mind Landraiders have ceramite armour, ignoring the melta special rule, so it's S8+D6 for glancing on 6's which is a far cry from a counter I think. Therefore I'm hestitant to grab a third, and to jump out of AV12 to boot... Not that they survived when push came to shove in this game mind.The Command Squad didn't do much to be sure, but in my experience a Command tank is a big target in-and-of itself, and adding a VP in form of Slay the Warlord makes it doubly so. The Command Squad was happily sitting in LoSblocking cover and staying alive.And yeah the Techmarine absolutely should have died ASAP, but with 2+ cover after going to ground it was only Wyverns that could deal with the unit, and Wyverns only got a single round of shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Yeah, Demolishers answer most questions. S10, AP2 with ordnance tends to batter through anything - you just need to stop the Raider from moving to prevent the easy disembark and charge. Every turn you buy is crucial as that's a lot of points wasted when they're not in close. Where did this ceramite armour come from, isn't that a HH thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Yeah, in regular 40k, land raiders don't ignore the melta special rule...even on forgeworld, there are only a couple of unusual variants that have ceramite. I second the call for demolisher cannons. 24" seems like very short range, but if deployed forward, they reach targets 6" from the enemy board edge on turn one. I never leave home without two of them, although taking four, as libris is wont to do, might be a bit excessive, lol. An alternative (not so hot in this particular scenario, but I take both, so...) means of dealing with land raiders is Pask in a vanquisher. He basically auto-penetrates AV14 with the same +1 on the damage table that demolishers get. If you go that route, definitely give him a hull lascannon and resist the urge to give him sponson multimeltas. If he's close enough to shoot those, he's better off in a punisher. Punisher is another good option for Pask. He should average enough glancing hits in a punisher to glance a land raider to death in a single round of shooting. The downside is that you're putting your warlord front and center and inviting the enemy to kill him, which is why I prefer him in a vanquisher. As for tank warlords being targets, that is certainly a concern, but playing hide the warlord with a squishy T3 model is highly risky, too, and in the best circumstances a waste of points. That's one of the reasons I'm so happy with Pask-quisher. He's fairly effective from very long range, and since I combine him with a pair of charging demolishers, the enemy is way too busy worrying about those two S10AP2 pieplate-chuckers to spare any antitank for the sniper tank in the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Agreed, a couple of Demolishers are so dangerous they must be dealt with and that can buy you a lot of space and time. They're also fine out of the box, no need to spend more points on them. Melta is always good for hard targets of course but if you want to pop a Land Raider from afar I don't think you can beat a Paskuisher for hitting reliably hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 March is right as to other alternatives. If that Land Raider is 30k, which it would have to be for armored ceramite, (didn't pick up on that) then you're deprived of a bunch of options. IG competing with armored legion astartes almost requires us to use vanquishers, demolishers, and Pask in punishers. Those are basically our only options outside of melta for dealing with armored ceramite outside of melta (which is just this side of useless against most legion armies.) If you're determined to stay far away, there is also the manticore and medusa, but I'm more of a high AV guy and prefer Russ flavored answers to problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderPirate Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Nice bat rep Emicus, my only criticism would be that you conceded too early. It's always worth hanging on - you never know how the dice are going to go. In terms of other counters to LRs, you've got the option of ignoring the vehicles themselves and concentrating on dealing the guys inside. Feeding them a squishy unit whilst you back away will give you a turn of shooting at them with your tanks before they get murderise. They bale out, assault your sacrificial unit, wipe them out, and then have to wait until next turn to get at your tanks. If you just bubblewrap, you run the risk of the unit disembarking and getting a multi-charge into both the wrap and the tank. I didn't really see what the plasma vets did this game - could they have not been used to deal with the honour guard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 Going to read the rest of the comments but wait what? No ceramite armour? What the absolute flying (expletive).The Imperial Fists are truly treacherous as lies spew forth from their lips :(I'll have to demand a rematch where I'm not lead to believe his units are different than what they actually are. "I need to move into cover as your AP3 templates will eat me alive" my left buttcheek. "Oh melta only glances it on sixes as it ignores the melta with Ceramite armour" my right. Someone hit up the Inquisition for an inspection, it seems they forgot to excommunicate some traitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Local agents informed. Inspection fleet inbound. Geneseed testing scheduled for sometimes in the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 I'm liking the advice of 'more tanks, bigger bullets' and will definently implement it swiftly as soon as I can get a requisition form sent to the Departmento Monitorum, as you may have noticed I borrowed 4 vehicles for this match alone (and a platoon). Or do you reckon to drop the Battle-tanks altogether and go with Demolishers instead? And I do have some FW Vanquisher turrets that are begging for a chassis...As for feeding the Honour Guard units to bog them down I didn't have enough units. There was a 4man remaining and PCS in the area but they would not survive a single round of combat in my own turn, so he'd be free to move in his own and therefore accomplish nothing. My hope was that he'd waste time charging them later to clear them up, as that would stop him for a turn at least.The wrap was shot to bits unfortunately that created a gap he could just run through, and since he goes from Landraider to combat, a wrap is the only possible defence when he comes at you. My mistake was the double layer on Exterminator rather than Executioner I think. Or just not having enough men.I didn't mention the plasma/melta veterans specifically but perhaps I should have. They died when their transports exploded.Oh, and I give up when the game is over man, it was pretty clear cut I think. He owned his home objective and first blood, even if I could kill everything eating my lines and hold my own objective I could in no way, shape or form kill 10 tactical terminators that he'd drop on his home objective if necessary. To tie I'd need to get linebreaker (no units available) or slay the warlord (2+ cover with GtG, 3 models to Look Out Sir). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 The main thing that's needed is the immobilization or destruction of the land raider. All else flows from forcing the contents of said land raider to dismount and face the pieplates How you force the dismount is up to you, it really depends on the models you have/can steal. Personally, as mentioned, I take pask in a vanquisher plus a pair of demolishers in every game, against all comers, and that setup would work in your situation, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RADU LYKAN Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Have you looked at a rapier battery? Might help out? Am currently working on some big tanks with magnets for multiple counts as, how have peopl found the the neutron laser malcador works against stuff like land raiders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Land Raiders are, literally, the reason why Valdor Tank Hunter's (always capitolize) exist. I completely dig mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 Without doing a big discussion of why and how etc, I don't use Forgeworld. Good suggestion for a counter though! I've been on the recieving end of them and they're absolutely vicious, especially with orders on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenricusTyranicus Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 There is a variety of 40k landraider with ceramite armor, however, it is forgeworld exclusive, not at all in the regular codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I heard some talk of giving up, so I came with my bolt pistol as soon as I could... :P Honour Guard aren't something to worry about. They need a ride to be effective and they're overkill against Guard, and no great threat to armour compared to a normal Marine. With no invulnerable save you shouldn't have too much trouble popping them, give them some AP2 or simply spam fire them as they won't be that numerous. I'd recommend a couple of Demolishers as discussed, I like march's idea. The standard tank is great of course and flexible but this isn't what you need, you need specialists. Against so many 2+ saves the pie plates will flatten them in short order as well as helping remove the Land Raider as a factor. As many of us are so fond of saying - a couple will sort out almost anything. If I'm ever expecting trouble then they come out of the box and show the enemy that all the fancy equipment in the galaxy is no match for the Emperor's Hammer when it crashes down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenricusTyranicus Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 It is worth noting, even if it did have ceramite armor, that grants it immunity to melta, not armorbane. Melta bombs, interestingly enough, have armorbane rather than melta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 There is a variety of 40k landraider with ceramite armor, however, it is forgeworld exclusive, not at all in the regular codex. The Land Raider Achilles. It is a beast but only holds six men and has no ramp, so we were pretty safe in assuming it wasn't one of these. It is a great tank though, tough as nails and with two TL multimeltas for armor duty and a bleppity, blep, blep, blepping thunderfire cannon. (Guess how I feel about thunderfire cannons.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukash_ Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 It's never a waste of points to give veteran squads 3 special weapons. One dies, one misses, one gets the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 There is a variety of 40k landraider with ceramite armor, however, it is forgeworld exclusive, not at all in the regular codex. The Land Raider Achilles. It is a beast but only holds six men and has no ramp, so we were pretty safe in assuming it wasn't one of these. It is a great tank though, tough as nails and with two TL multimeltas for armor duty and a bleppity, blep, blep, blepping thunderfire cannon. (Guess how I feel about thunderfire cannons.) You... love... Thunderfire cannons? And alas it was a standard pattern 'raider w/ assault cannon and TL-lascannon sponsons w/ extra armour and pintle Meltagun. ____________________________________________________ I've discussed with my opponent and a few friends the possibility of him reading his own codex for a bit, lest he get lynched - and during the proceedings it was discovered he was somewhat over on points too... the nerve! So I believe there is one solution: a rematch. I've tried to puzzle together a list and need to make some purchases as borrowing from the PDF should not become a habit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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