Uveron’s, Renegade and Heretics, Battle Reports

[Iron_Within]

I'm loving this thread. I've been painting up my Renegades and Heretics and although most my group play 1500-2000 point games, however I'm going to try and convince people to play smaller 500 point games. I've written a list, partly looking at your list but mostly based off what models I have available.

 

Demagogue Command squad

plasma gun

 

Command squad 12 renegades with 2 Grenade launchers and Chimera

 

Squad 1: 20 Renegades with Lasguns

Squad 2: 20 renegades with Lasguns and Militia training

 

Heavy Ordinance with Earthshaker Cannon

Artillery Battery with two Heavy Mortars and 1 Quad Launcher

Support squad with 3 Autocannons and Militia Training.

[Warsmith Uveron]

Thanks Again Everyone. 

 

I expect it will be a few weeks before I get another game in. (I still have to finish painting the stuff I need to the 800pt level). But I hope to get a few games in over the next few weeks, despite Christmas. 

 

 

Demagogue Command squad

plasma gun

 

Command squad 12 renegades with 2 Grenade launchers and Chimera

 

Squad 1: 20 Renegades with Lasguns

Squad 2: 20 renegades with Lasguns and Militia training

 

Heavy Ordinance with Earthshaker Cannon

Artillery Battery with two Heavy Mortars and 1 Quad Launcher

Support squad with 3 Autocannons and Militia Training.

 

Looks like a Fun list, I would suggest that you switch the Command Squad with one of the Renegade Squads. The Command Squad has the Fanatic Special rule, so its slightly more resistant to LD Tests. I would also See about moving some guys around to get a 10 man squad of Mutants, or 5 Man Vet Squad so you can be battle Forged as Objective Secured is very very useful. 

[Iron_Within]

Crap I forgot the second unit! will make sure I change it around a bit

 

Arch-Demagogue Command squad

plasma gun

 

Command squad 12 renegades with 2 Grenade launchers and Chimera

 

Squad 1: 10 Renegades with Lasguns

Squad 2: 20 renegades with Lasguns and Militia training

Mutant Rabble: 10 Mutants

 

Heavy Ordinance with Earthshaker Cannon

Artillery Battery with two Heavy Mortars and 1 Quad Launcher

Support squad with 3 Autocannons and Militia Training.

 

I reckon that looks better now and no major changes needed. When you mean swap the Demagogue around do you mean use his IC status to drop him in the big blob squad? I'm a little concerned about the lack anti-tank so I do also have the option of taking a Lascannon instead of a Plasmagun, however I'm not sure reducing that units mobility would work.

[Warsmith Uveron]

So Today I have been working on some Maths.

I have been trying to work out why I have been unsatisfied with the Medusa. It appears to miss its targets a lot, way more than I expect when using a blast weapon. Now I pondered how much that had to do with the BS of 2 effecting scatter.

So I set out to test the probability of the blast marker being so many inches away from the point at which the blast was initially targeted. (Note: for this math I did not look at the direction of scatter, well I did but the math became very complex and did not show anything of interest So just presume that the Target is Symmetrical so it doesn’t matter what direction deviation occurred. )

So the First step was to work out the percent chance of having a Hit or Scatter. That is

• 33.33%- Chance of a Hit
• 66.66% - Chance of Scatter.

Then I worked out what the % chance of rolling a number on 2D6, following a roll of a Scatter, This gives the following base number, (This is a Point in Space not a Blast Template).

As you can see without modification you’re most likely to end up about 7” away from your target if you do not roll a hit. But as you increase your BS you creep closer to your Target.

Next up it became more complex. Presuming that the Blast Template is 5” in size which it is for my medusa. I do not need to land exactly on the spot as described by the above math. So what I did is to next add up the points that are under the template. IE: If the Template Scatters to 4” away, it will also be covering The area from 2” to 6”. Once that math’s is complete I projected it on the following Plot. (Note: the Percent in this now adds up to above 100, this is because the template will be at more than one location at the same time).

Now what conclusions can be drawn? Simply put BS3, has an 8% greater chance to be within 2” of the target, and 6% more likely to be within 3”. I also note the ‘odd’ drop that occurs at 3”; this uplift is occurred because of the chance of rolling a HIT on the Scatter dice. BS mitigates that drop, and at BS of 4 that drop does not happen at all.

So the question becomes does this distribution match my feelings on my Medusa Performance. And the response is YES. Ignoring the HIT Peak, the blast template will be effecting an area 3” to 7” away from the target. And most of the time units I am targeting have a smaller footprint than the need 6” radius to ensure a hit.

But the question becomes is it worth to spend 10 points to improve the accuracy of the big gun. I think that it is worth the points.

But given this data what do you think?

[Warsmith Uveron]

@Iron_Within, The Demagogue in the Comand Platoon (not the Arch-Demagogue), who isnt a IC also gets the Fanatic Rule. So it works out better to have him on foot where you can use that extra LD buff to your advantage.  That is providing you use the IA:13 list, in the Vraks book the Demagogue doesn't get the Fanatic Special rule.  

[Blackcadian]

Interesting math there. I too have been frustrated with my pie plates hitting thin air more often than 'feels right' for me.

 

 

However I still don't think it's worth dropping those 10pts on BS3. I think what you're seeing is also a result of playing such small games - there simply aren't a lot of units in the board, much less any big ones. I remember bringing a Mawloc to a 850pt tourney and being terribly disappointed by it. There's units that just don't work well for their points in small games.

[Iron_Within]

@Iron_Within, The Demagogue in the Comand Platoon (not the Arch-Demagogue), who isnt a IC also gets the Fanatic Rule. So it works out better to have him on foot where you can use that extra LD buff to your advantage.  That is providing you use the IA:13 list, in the Vraks book the Demagogue doesn't get the Fanatic Special rule.

At this level I am using IA:13 yeah, so good point regarding the Demagogue, I'd totally forgotten. I will switch it so the larger 20 man is the Command Squad

 

When facing AM, I've never been too impressed or scared by the Medusa, even at BS3 it feels rather unreliable unless you're going after a target with a large footprint (and even then my Maulerfiends have an annoying tendency to make their daemon saves). Instead of the Medusa how about running two Heavy Mortars or Quad launchers and a Rapier with Militia training. With S9, Twin-linked and ordinance at BS3 it provides a more reliable anti-tank and the mortars BS are irrelevant as they always fire indirectly and because their is two you've increased your chance of a hit. That would cost 5 points less than a Medusa and would likely be more points efficient.

[K0rtmer]

Uveron, the angular part of the distribution of scatter of the blast marker is uniform and therefore doesn't enter your analysis above. All seems correct. 

 

I don't think BS3 is worth 10 points. It doesn't increase the chance of actually hitting a reasonably sized target significantly; BS3 seems to make a difference for the probabilities of larger scatters, but you don't want those to begin with.

 

I think your problem is here that, at 500 points, the Medusa is your only real long-range anti-armor tool. (I don't take take the plasma gun into account here.) Is that its dedicated role though? I'm not sure; I'd argue it's perhaps meant to mess up squads of MEQ or TEQ – where some degree of scatter doesn't matter a lot. At higher point levels you'll likely bring Rapier platforms for anti-armour. These will hit more often. You can still run a Medusa or, even better, two, but perhaps really ideally at BS2 – and firing them at larger, softer targets.

 

Just my two cents though ...

[Warsmith Uveron]

When facing AM, I've never been too impressed or scared by the Medusa, even at BS3 it feels rather unreliable unless you're going after a target with a large footprint (and even then my Maulerfiends have an annoying tendency to make their daemon saves). Instead of the Medusa how about running two Heavy Mortars or Quad launchers and a Rapier with Militia training. With S9, Twin-linked and ordinance at BS3 it provides a more reliable anti-tank and the mortars BS are irrelevant as they always fire indirectly and because their is two you've increased your chance of a hit. That would cost 5 points less than a Medusa and would likely be more points efficient.

 

Yes, I do like that Idea. Don't have the models yet. 

 

 

 

I don't think BS3 is worth 10 points. It doesn't increase the chance of actually hitting a reasonably sized target significantly; BS3 seems to make a difference for the probabilities of larger scatters, but you don't want those to begin with.

 

I think your problem is here that, at 500 points, the Medusa is your only real long-range anti-armor tool. (I don't take take the plasma gun into account here.) Is that its dedicated role though? I'm not sure; I'd argue it's perhaps meant to mess up squads of MEQ or TEQ – where some degree of scatter doesn't matter a lot. At higher point levels you'll likely bring Rapier platforms for anti-armour. These will hit more often. You can still run a Medusa or, even better, two, but perhaps really ideally at BS2 – and firing them at larger, softer targets.

 

Just my two cents though ...

 

I agree with it being my Anti-Armour tool, and I will be picking a second one up at the 800pt level (I have 3 them in total), and I will have to look at getting some Rapiers asap. Otherwise I think I will wait a month before increasing the BS up to 3, if I do it. See how having a second one effects my mood.. 

 

Thanks everyone for the advice! 

 

[Warsmith Uveron]

Today the League increases its point values from 500 to 800.

I have spent some time talking about what I plan on doing but wanted to post the list (as I just posted a copy of it to my Clubs Forum). The list will be

the following:

Hidden Content

++ Renegades & Heretics: IA13 (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) (800pts) ++

+ HQ +

Renegade Command Squad (205pts) [Carapace Armour, Krak Grenades for Squad]
····Arch Demagogue [Carapace Armour, Frag Grenades, Lasgun, No Chaos Covenant, Warlord]
····4 x Disciple [banner of Hate, Command Net Vox, Plasma Gun, Close Combat Weapon, Frag Grenades, Lasgun]
····Renegade Chimera [Autocannon, Camo Netting, Heavy Bolter, Militia Training]

+ Troops (385pts) +

Renegade Infantry Platoon (335pts)
····Platoon Command Squad [Krak Grenades for Squad]
········Demagogue [bolt Pistol, Carapace Armour, Close Combat Weapon, Frag Grenades, Shotgun]
········19x Renegades [Chaos Sigil, Flamer x2, Close Combat Weapon, Frag Grenades, Lasguns]

····Renegade Infantry Squad

········8 x Renegades [2x Flamer, Close Combat Weapon, Frag Grenades, Lasguns]
········Autocannon Team [Autocannon, Close Combat Weapon T, Frag Grenades T, Laspistol]
········Renegade Chimera [2x Heavy Bolter, Militia Training]

····Renegade Infantry Squad

········8 x Renegades [2x Flamer, Close Combat Weapon, Frag Grenades, Lasguns]
········Autocannon Team [Autocannon, Close Combat Weapon T, Frag Grenades T, Laspistol]
········Renegade Chimera [2x Heavy Bolter, Militia Training]

Renegade Mutant Rabble (50pts)
····Mutant Champion [Close Combat Weapon, Frag Grenades, Laspistol]
····14x Mutant w/ Autopistol [Autopistol, Close Combat Weapon, Frag Grenades]

+ Heavy Support (210pts) +

Renegade Artillery Battery (105pts)
····Renegade Medusa [Heavy Flamer, Medusa Siege Cannon]

Renegade Artillery Battery (105pts)

····Renegade Medusa [Heavy Bolter, Medusa Siege Cannon]

The Changes to the list are subtle, but I hope effective. First I added flamers and Autocannons to the Infantry Squads that ride around in the Chimeras. This is to increase the general firepower of the army as the Autocannons bring some more High Strength shots to the army. The Flamers help for crowd control, and close range support.

Giving the Chimeras the Militia Training is a budget way to increase the accuracy of a lot of shots in the army, as it also helps the lasgun arrays.

I also wanted to give the Renegade Command Squad a ride, and spent probly to much on that tank. But want to see how it does. It is going to hide out more in the back of the table, and brings another Autocannon to the list.

I added some more bodies to the Mutants, the Champion is added soly because I made the model for him, and the Extra Medusa was added to see if it helps with my feelings about this unit (See my last Post). I removed the Breacher rounds, as I didn’t use them much last month and I do not think I will miss them. This could be another mistake.

Anyway, not sure when I will be getting in the next game. Going to be working for the next 18 days, so will see if I can steal some time in the evenings, but it is always a little harder to get games in.

[Warsmith Uveron]

NOTE: Reminder Once again, I am trying to make sure both me and my opponents have Fun games, so please keep this in mind when giving any advice, and when looking at what I am planning.

In a few hours I will be playing the Grey Knight Player in the league again. Like last month this Game will be quite a challenge! I do Kinda feel I am repeating what I said in the first pre-game section, so will not dig too deep into the plan in this post but these are the highlights...

I expect I will be facing will be 1 Dread Knight, 1 Librarian and some Paladins and may be a Dreadnaught. Like last month not sure how exactly the list goes together I expect 4 Paladins/Terminator, so looking at around ~8 models in total. I will be bringing around 65 models, so going to still be outnumbering him by a 1 in 8 ratio… But like last month his troops are going to be very hard to kill, but he will not be able to kill that much of

my army.

I did the math last month and decided that targeting the Dread Knight was a bad plan. I have increased the amount of ‘heavy’ weapons in my list. So I should be able to cause damage to the Dread Knight and the Dreadnought If he has one. It will be interesting to see how the second Siege Gun helps. Once again, I think I can win if I focus on the objectives. I have a lot of Objective Secured Units, so that’s the plan.

Anyway, hopeful this time tomorrow I will update everyone with the results of the game. If anyone has any advice please let me know!

(Updated my Plog with some new photos of my Renegades)

[Warsmith Uveron]

Overview, The Game was a Draw.. But anyway!

Once again it was a great fun. I have had a blast playing with this list each time I have put it on the table, games are close (even if the points don’t always indicate this). Anyway on to the Game.

Game Set-Up.

We Played Maelstrom of War ‘The Spoils of War’ we played in a 4’ by 4’ table (Which is the custom for our Gaming Group for games below 1000pts). The Table was set up with a large central set of Ruins ( 2 Levels of City of Death Buildings, covering 1’ buy 0.5’ section with some scattering of smaller items of over around the edge (Set up to look like a bombed out factory and some fortifications for the facility)

My Opponents was a little bigger than I expected, and it was the following:

1 Librarian, (Terminator Amour: Key Powers were Gate of Infinity & Vortex of Doom)
4 Paladins, (With an Apothecary)
5 Terminators
1 Dread Knight (With Personal Teleporter and Heavy Psycannon)

He was using the Nemesis Strike Force, Not sure about his Warlord Trait (Did not come into play).

For my Force, I rolled the ‘Lead by Example' General Trait, and my Mutants got ‘Horns, Claws and Fangs’. So they would have to charge if an opponent was within 12, but did Hammer of Wrath hits when they charge (and +1 S at that as well).


The Game:

My Opponent won the roll of and took the first turn, He placed the Dread Knight and the Liberian + Paladins on the table, both units were in cover, but aggressively placed on his left side of the table (with the Dread Knight closer to the center).

I set up covering most of the Deployment Zone, The Command Squad in their recently acquired Chimera were on the My Left Flank, behind witch the one of the Medusa's were placed. Then I put both other Chimeras in the center of the table, behind the Central Ruins to allow them to cover both lanes of fire. The Renegade Command Squad was set up in all the empty space around these Chimeras (20 guys take up a lot of space when placed 2” apart). The Second Medusa was placed behind a small building on my right flank (opposite his army) and the Mutants were set up to screen this flank. I failed to Seize.

His Dread Knight made its shunt to land on top of the Central Factory, the Paladins ran up the table. In the Psychic Phase they Gated Scattered Dramatically, but then were able to run towards me again in the shooting Phase. [i just realized they also shot at the Mutants which they shouldn’t have been able to do!} The Dread Knight Shot at the Medusa on the left side, it got a good hit and shook it.

In my Turn 1. I pulled 3 tactical Objectives, Secure Objective 1 x 2 and King Slayer. Objective 1 was 10” up the table from the Warlords Chimera. So it went Full Speed and secured the Objective, But taking his 12" LD buffing powers out of the range of the rest of his army. As did the Shaken Meudsa who moved to get in a good shooting spot and fired of his Smoke Launchers. The other Medusa moved to draw LOS to the Paladins, and the Mutants moved forward, the Command Platoon moved forward to get within 12” of the Dread Knight. In the Shooting Phase the working Meudsa shot the Paladins, I did 4 wounds... But because I had the Mutants between the two units I gave him a 5+ cover save that he made 3 of! I then shot everything else’s at the Dread Knight. Did a scattering of wounds that he saved (A theme of the Game). In the Assaults Phase the Mutants Charged the Paladins (as they had too) I lost another 2 in Over watch fire leaving 7 left from the Original 15, I got 5 hammer of wrath hits but wasn’t able to kill any of them, after the first round of combat only 1 was left so he ran away… (Feeling a bit miffed that I forgot about the shooting and running thing on that squad, I was grabbing a Beer at the time and the thought did not cross my mind).

In his Turn 2. The Paladins moved forward again, the Dread Knight moved infrount of Medusa. (I hate the fact it’s a Jump Monster, it’s just so mobile). The Terminators Deep Striked down on the left flank, and spread out in front of the other Medusa. The Liberian then cast Vortex of Doom which ripped apart a Chimera, killing all but the Auto-Cannon in the tank one flamer and 2 guys with Lasguns. They passed their moral check and held fast. In the Shooting Phase the Paladins shot at the other Chimera with no effect. In the Assault phase they assaulted the Chimera (The Flamers from the top hatch both hit with 3 wounds but all saves were made). They then destroyed the Chimera the Guys then spilled out. The Dread knight then killed the Medusa.

At the Top of my turn the Vortex Scattered away from me, I moved the Command Squad away from the Terminators. Secured the objective I needed for the turn (Sadly not with my warlord). And then it was shooting time! The Command Squads Plasma Gun killed a Terminator, the Medusa fired and killed another 1. (He made 2 5+ Saves!). All the other shooting at my army focused at the Paladin Squad 5 Flamers, 30 Lasguns, 2 Autocannons. And I did a Wound! (Math’s Say I should have killed 1 and put another wound on another, such was the luck of the game)

In his Turn 3. The Vortex Scattered away from everyone. The Paladins moved to be able to charge one of the squads, the Dread Knight moved closer to another squad, the Terminators moved up on my Last Medusa. In the Psychic Phase the Librarian casts a second Vortex that kills some guys in the Platoon Command Squad. The Terminators cast hammer hand. In the shooting phase the Paladins shoot some of the Platoon squad and kills a few (I forget the number, total removed are still below 25%, so they do not need to take moral). The Dread Knight shoots at the Infantry squad that piled out of the chimera that the Paladins killed last turn, it kills a few of them. They pass moral. In the assault phase it charges and in over watch I score a 2nd wound. It then wipes them out in Close Combat. The Paladins Charge the Platoon Command Squad, I kill the apoticary and the charge fails.

In my Turn I pull the supremacy card, the Grey Knights do not have a single objective so I just need to hold 2. The Command Squad without the Arch-Dem get out of the Chimera and run to secure one objective. It then Turns and moves to give some distance to the Terminators. Everything Else’s holds fast, (Both Vortex’s Scatter but do not kill anything, but are just behind my troops). Shooting phase the Plasma gun in the Command Squad kills itself, but also kills a terminator, All other shooting does nothing Lots and lots of wounds, but all saved.

Top of Turn 4, the one of the vortex’s scatter and land on some of my guys killing them. After this my opponent backs away slightly. The librarian then gates over to secure an objective. He targets in the shooting phase the reaming Auto-Cannon, all but the Auto-Cannon and a Flamer guy dies, he passes his moral and stands firm (0.5” in front of a Vortex of Doom! LD 10 Must have represented a total nut-job). In the Assault Phase the Paladins assault the Chimera, immobilizing it. I score a point for securing a objective in the main factory complex again.

For some reason at this point both me and my opponent think we are on the bottom of turn 5, so I engage in some crazy maneuvers to secure the victory. The Arch-Demi jumps out of the Chimeria and runs alone at an objective, securing it for 2 victory points. (Though I forgot to score this as 2 victory points at the end of the game). The Disciples make a mad dash into the opponent’s deployment zone, shooting phase I shoot at the Dread Knight for no effect. We roll to see if the game ends, and it doesn’t (even though we shouldn’t have rolled).

In my Opponents real turn 5, one of the Vortex’s Disappears. The Dread Knight moves to get into better shooting LOS of the Auto-Cannon, the terminators move after my warlord. The librarian then casts gate secures another objective, They then Run to provide a lane of fire on my Disciples, they then shoot and wipe them out (Again they should have not been able to do this as the Nemesis Strike Force only lets them to run and shoot when moving out of Deep Strike Reserve.. not when they Deep Strike). The Dread Knight Kills the Auto-Cannon team, and the Warlord dies in close combat to the terminators.

In my Turn I shoot with my last few units, with no effect. We roll to see if the game ends, I roll a 2 and the game is done. (We still think we played an extra turn!, I only realized when writing it all down.

Overview.

Well that was one crazy of a game. Much longer write up than I expected so I will not cut into an Overview for long. Missed quite a few rules things, wasn’t on my best game.. But I had a lot of fun and that’s what counts! My Opponent rolled like a God, I put over 100 wounds on his guys over the cause of the game and he failed less than 5% of them! Legitimately with such luck he should have won the game.

My troops performed very well, I don’t know what I could do to have improved the performance of the units. Against this army I do lack AP 2 weapons, but I do not think that with normal luck that it would have hurt me so badly. It was a Great Game! And look forward to my next one at the next point level against this army. (I need to work out a way to kill the Dread Knight that doesn’t rely on Tank-shock Tricks… which is a little to WAC for me)

[Blackcadian]

Yay a new bat-rep up in my favourite thread! :D Aw, only one pic :(

 

Congrats on the win (imho you should count it as a win with that forgotten VP and all the rule botch ups from your opponent).

 

Something else besides what you already mentioned made me think - doesn't a Vortex automatically disappear if it is cast again? I know it works that way in Fantasy (R.I.P.), so...

 

I also agree that ordinarily you should be able to deal with Grey Knight through sheer weight of fire. Although I do like to bring AP3 guns for general Space Marine annoyance:  battle cannons / colossus siege cannons / earthshakers / chem cannons will all help, although I think you said that there's not a lot of Marine players in your meta.

 

 

Also something I wanted to ask you - is there a specific reason why you play with the IA13 list instead of the Vraks one?

 

I'm just curious, personally I prefer IA13, too, but I get the feeling that most R&H players that I know of play a Vraks list.

[Warsmith Uveron]

Ok on the Pictures, I know… I forgot to take any. It’s been the first time playing in my home in ages and I didn’t keep my phone on the table with my stuff so I forgot. Next time I will get photos! (It helps me in recalling the game better as well!) Not 100% sure it was a real win, sure he made mistakes. As did I the whole last turn deal… and he was so close to tabeling me. Eh sometimes the dice just do not go your way.

 

Anyway. I don’t like the Vraks list. I have a Article I am planning to write as its own thread on this issue but.. it comes down to a number of points.

1. Troops Run away more. You don’t get the Free Fanatic upgrade in the Platoon Comand Squad, Chaos Sigils don’t let you skip making a moral check.
2. You have more limited Selection in Troops, No Scions, No Space Marines, No Daemon Engines, No Flyers, Only Khorne and Nurgle upgrades. No Flack Armour
3. There is more uncertainty in the rules. (The whole Spawn Mess… not a huge deal but a small one)

 

Now Vraks does do a few things a lot better than IA:13 and that’s all based on the Ordnance Tyrant, and the Unending Host. But if you’re not doing these lists the IA:13 Is basically the same and has the edge in a few places. Now when I build a Tournament army, I expect that I will be running a Vraks List as the Uneding Host, is kind of Broken. Esp when you ally in some KDK for more respawning troops.  

[Warsmith Uveron]

So, I am thinking of joining a second Escalation league, this one is a little more comp heavy. But will have less games, I have no idea what lists I will use, will need to make my lists a bit ‘tighter’. And given the speed and end size of the Escalation I will probably end up adding some Chaos Marines or Daemons to the lists. (Or even Deamon Kin)

These are the Rules for the League:

Hidden Content

Imperial Knights WILL be allowed as a primary detachment. Other players wishing to field Knights will still have to wait until LOW are unlocked to use Knights.

LOW units will still be limited to none before round #6, one as of round #6 and unlimited for round #7. Furthermore, LOW are restricted by the following:

It cannot have a larger than 5" blast D Weapon

It cannot have a Hellstorm template with Torrent

It cannot be a Super-Heavy Flyer or Flying Gargantuan

It cannot be a Titan (including Bio-Titans or Daemon Lords)

In addition, if one player has a Super Heavy/Gargantuan LOW and the other does not then that player gets to roll on the Escalation Warlord Table and gains +1 to initiative. Also, for every 3 hull points/wounds dealt to a Super Heavy/Gargantuan, the player dealing the damage gains an extra Maelstrom point.

Ranged Destroyer weapons will be limited in the same fashion as LOW. Players can take 0 units with D weapons before round 6 when they can have a single unit with D weapons. In round 7 there are no restrictions to D weapons.

Armies can be built using up to 3 detachments. Furthermore, an army may duplicate a single detachment one time. For instance, an army can only have up to two Combined Arms detachments or Allied detachments.
"Decurion" style detachments comprised of multiple sub-detachments count as one detachment towards the 3 detachment limit.

Forgeworld units (including army lists from IA books) will be allowed this league. 30k and Experimental units are NOT allowed. The player bring Forgeworld units/army lists is responsible for having all documentation necessary to show to his opponent exactly what his units do. A paper copy is preferred.

Like last league everyone must still play Battle Forged and must use the same codex as their primary detachment for every game. Also, all games will be played as Maelstrom of War missions.

round 1 is 1250 pts
rounds 2 and 3 are 1500 pts
round 4 is 1750 pts
round 5 is 1850 pts
round 6 is 2000 pts
round 7 is 2500 pts

[RolandTHTG]

Not sure if you can fit it in at 1250, but RaH and allied demonkin would be fun I think. Run the hound/bike formation, than go heavy on the fire support in the renegades.

[Khornestar]

Lame about the experimental restrictions, otherwise that sounds like a good tourney.

[Warsmith Uveron]

Not sure if you can fit it in at 1250, but RaH and allied demonkin would be fun I think. Run the hound/bike formation, than go heavy on the fire support in the renegades.

 

I agree, not sure about 1250, I think its more a plan at 2000 points. 

 

Lame about the experimental restrictions, otherwise that sounds like a good tourney.

 

Eh, Renegades don't have many experimental rules, I do lose the ability to bring a knight, but I think its all fine.  

[Warsmith Uveron]

IMPORTANT NOTE: From now on the majority of games will be written up as a single article. The Games for the Secondary league will have some pre-game articles but the reports for the main league will be created as a single post. I have also change the name of the topic to represent the planned life of topic post the end of these leagues.

Last night I had a great game with the Blood Angels in the League. As I mentioned before the Blood Angels player is new to the Hobby but has been getting some good mentoring on list building. I managed to get a few good photos last night. I have included the best of them, the game was played at my home so don’t have the great lighting that the store I have been playing at has... (And my Table may be an 8 by 4, but its Ugly)

Game Set-UP.

We Played Maelstrom of War “Cloak and Dagger”, we played in a 4’ by 4’ table (Which is the custom for our Gaming Group for games below 1000pts). The Table was set up with a ring of ruins around the table with a Agis Defense line and Ammo-Dump in the center of the table.

My Opponent brought the following list of troops

• One Chaplain with Jump-Pack,
• 5 Death Company
• 5 Snipper Scouts (With Camo-Cloaks)
• 10 Tactical Marines with Drop-Pod. (Heavy Flamer, Melta-Gun, Combi-Melta).
• Baal Predator with Flamerstorm Cannon and Heavy Flamers.
• 1 Land speeder with Multi-Melta and Missiles

His Warlord had an item of Wargear that allowed him to generate two warlord Traits, the first Trait Gave him the Rampage Special rule, and his Second allowed him to infiltrate up to 3 Infantry units. For my Force, I rolled the ‘Destroy of Cities' General Trait, and my Mutants got ‘Horns, Claws and Fangs’. So they would have to charge if an opponent was within 12, but did Hammer of Wrath hits when they charge (and +1 S at that as well).

The Game:

Deployment, I won the initial roll off and set out to deploy my force along the edge of my deployment zone. The Medusas were placed together with the mutants protecting their rear. The Command Platoon in their Chimera deployed in the center of the zone, on an objective behind some barricades. The other two Chimeras deployed in the Center and the left side of the zone. The Command Platoon was set up between these two Units.

The Baal Predator set up behind some Ruins on the far side of the table from the Medusas. The in the infiltrator round, the Scouts set up in some ruins overlooking the ‘Town Square’. Then the Death Company set up in another Ruin.

Turn 1:

In my Turn most of the army pushes forward, the command squad holds fast, but all other units close in. In the shooting phase all ranged weapons shoot at the Scouts and one of them dies. The Medusas fire at the Death Company and kill two of them.

In the Blood Angles Turn, The Drop Pod drops in the Tacticals Divide into two combat squads, one with the Heavy Flamer, The Meltas moved into the other squad. The Baal Predator shoots up the table, with the Death Company Following. In the Shooting Phase the Heavy Flamer and Bolters kill 5 mutants, the Meltas do a hull-point of damage on one of the Medusa. In the Assault Phase the Death Company Charge the Platoon command squad, issue a Challenge and kills 8 of the guys (Including the Icon sadly). I take a moral check on 3d6 with the LD of 10 (thanks to the Command Squad) but with a -8 to the roll, I was unable to keep them from fleeing and he runs them down. He Scores 4 Victory Points for this… (3 tactical objectives and First Blood)

Turn 2:

The Medusas turn around and back up from the Tactical Squad. The Chimeras all move in on the Ball Predator and the Death Company. The Command Squad try’s to move forward and immobilizes itself. The Medusas fire at the Tactical Squad and Drop pods, they kill 3 marines and score two hull points of damage on the Drop-Pod. In shooting all the Chimeras, and guys inside of them shoot at the Death Company and kill them all, Including the Chaplain. Then because of the Mutation of the Mutants they charge the Tactical Squad, long story short they kill no-one, and then they all die! End of my turn 2 I have no infantry on the table anymore. Thankfully by killing the Death Company I killed the warlord which got my King-Slayer Objective which scored be 3 extra VP’s 4 total. The Blood Angels then descended on my Medusas, In a very quick turn of shooting they killed one of them and secured three objectives and scored 2 victory points.

Turn 3:

In my Turn, the last Medusa moved up the table and secured the last objective on the table. It then shot at the drop-pod and destroyed it. The Rest of the army then fired at the Predator, destroying it.. I scored 3 Victory points (Recon, and secure Objective 5 twice. Thanks to my Medusa). The land speeder finally then arrived, it landed close to the Medusa. In the Shooting phase it destroyed the Medusa. The Scouts shot at the nearest Chimera and did a hull point of damage. He Scores another 2 victory points (For Recon, another for Securing the Objective near the Medusa)

Turn 4:

Nearly everything then shoots at the Land Speeder, I stun it... but that is all. Then the Plasma Gun shot at one of the Tactical Marines who were hiding behind an objective and killed one of them. I score one victory point.

The Blood Angels then shoot at my tanks for no effect, his Tactical troops hide from the Plasma gun, but also score another victory point. (Scores are 9 to 8)…

Turn 5:

I then decided that I need to be Bold if I am going to win the game. One of the Infantry Platoons get out of the Chimera in the ‘Town Square’, it then drives out into the open and enters the deployment zone (Line breaker). The Command squad gets out of the Chimera and walks to draw LOS to the Tactical marines again. In the shooting phase they shoot at the tactical marines and kill another marine. The rest of the army shoots at the land speeder, it jinx and passes all its checks. I score another objective, and the Behind Enemy lines.. And with Line Breaker I get to 11 Victory points.

The Blood Angels land speeder then moves up on the Chimera, shoots at it but misses. He scores another 2 victory points.. And the Game ends in a Draw.

Now I have to go out for the evening as its Christmas, as I am stuck in the office tomorrow will write up some thoughts on the units performance and the like.

[Pearson73]

Sounds like a good game, I'm enjoying seeing how your army and tactics are evolving as you encounter and discuss new challenges.

[Warsmith Uveron]

So I thought after two games with 800pts, I would write up some notes on the some of the Units.

First up the Medusa’s. Adding the second Medusa has improved the performance of them greatly. So far I haven’t missed the use of Breacher Rounds. Also it’s been nice having more targets for them. Now I think, I will be trying them at BS3 soon. Mostly as I will be trying to run the ‘Bloody Handed Reavier’ so will have to upgrade them.

The Mutants. Urgh, this unit has not been doing as hot, I mean it is a 50pt unit but… Yep. I think I need to run them either in smaller units as pure objective grabber. And as they cannot get Militia Training they will remain cheap and be good unit for opening up a second Combined Arms Detachment, something I will need to do sooner or later.

The Infantry Platoon. As a whole it is a great unit... The Autocannons have not been working that great with BS2. Should have seen that coming, rate of fire is a huge thing when you only hit 1/3 times. May think about changing it out for Heavy Bolters in the other League. Now the Big 20 man unit… not sure about it, they did very well last month but kinda wishing they were split into two units and both in Chimeras. Not sure about spamming of 5+ of these though.

Not sure how I am going to build my list out, I have been pondering running two CAD’s

1^st CAD

• Command Platoon. (Chimera, Standard set up)
• Infantry Platoons, One squad of 15 guys, 2 units in Chimeras- Heavy Bolters.
• 1 Unit of Mutants (10 Guys)
• 1 Medusa
• 1 Medusa
• 1 Leman Russ.

2^nd CAD

• Command Platoon (No Upgrades to normal Guys, one Missile Launcher with Flak)
• 2 Units of Mutants (10 Guys)
• Earth Shaker Battery.
• Heavy Weapon Team (Autocannons, Militia Training)

This should give me a lot of units to score objectives, a lot of heavy weapons, and big blasts.

I like the Idea of it… what do you lot think?

[Pearson73]

Lots of bodies and a fair few vehicles, so that'll reduce the impact of shooting.

 

From the mutants point of view, have you tried running them in one big horde? They're a soft target for sure, but the more time spent whittling them down keeps your other units alive, and if they're ignored they'll bog things down in combat. The downside to this would be the reduced amount of troop choices taken,  so the second detachment would have to go.

[Castellan Cato]

I'm curious to know what you'll think of auto cannons in mass. So far I've been super underwhelmed about what I expected to be a solid troop choice. Even at BS3 I miss with too many shots for me to feel very good about them.

 

I liked them in Heavy weapons teams though. 6 shots at 65 points netted its points back in 2/3 games I played with them, but our HS slots are already over populated.

 

Not sure where you're planning to take covenants, but zombies have never ever let me down. Even when I'm having bad luck with FnP rolls, they tied up Khârn and Co for 3 player turns.

[Warsmith Uveron]

From the mutants point of view, have you tried running them in one big horde? They're a soft target for sure, but the more time spent whittling them down keeps your other units alive, and if they're ignored they'll bog things down in combat. The downside to this would be the reduced amount of troop choices taken,  so the second detachment would have to go.

 

I have been running them in a block of 15 recently, and in both games they have been lost because the had to charge a unit.. now I like that upgrade but with a block of 50 you will never get 50 HoW hits. Now I agree that a large block has its upsides, I think that having 3 blocks of 15 will be better than a single block of 45. But thats further down the road.

[Warsmith Uveron]

I'm curious to know what you'll think of auto cannons in mass. So far I've been super underwhelmed about what I expected to be a solid troop choice. Even at BS3 I miss with too many shots for me to feel very good about them.

 

I liked them in Heavy weapons teams though. 6 shots at 65 points netted its points back in 2/3 games I played with them, but our HS slots are already over populated.

 

Not sure where you're planning to take covenants, but zombies have never ever let me down. Even when I'm having bad luck with FnP rolls, they tied up Khârn and Co for 3 player turns.

 

I think I in the same place with Auto Cannons, we do have so many HS Slots, which is why I am thinking of running a double CAD. But the Big issue I think I have is that I only have 2 Auto Cannon Teams.. as my 3rd was used to make the turret for the Chimera.  Now I have been thinking about Covenants, but not sure about Nurgle. I like Tzeentch BS2 Snapshots sound nice, as do Spawn. 

 

Now I am pondering using the Vraks Book... or perhaps just the Purge Formation so I can get more Heavy Support slots. I have thought perhaps of running 6 mortars hiding at the back to lay down a whole pile of dangerous Terain, but just not sure its worth losing Objective Secure. So may be I could run it along with the first CAD.