Monkeychunks Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hi all, I'm having a bit of trouble with the Raven Guard Decapitation Strike, specifically the part dealing with Preferred Enemy. Quoted below are direct lines from the 7th Edition rulebook and Legiones Astartes. Preferred Enemy This rule is often presented as Preferred Enemy (X) where X identifies a specific type of foe. If the special rule does not specify a type of foe, then everyone is a Preferred Enemy of the unit. A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule re-rolls failed To Hit and To Wound rolls of 1 if attacking its Preferred Enemy. This applies both to shooting and close combat attacks. For Whom the Bell Tolls All Legiones Astartes (Raven Guard) units in a force using this Rite of War gains the Preferred Enemy (Independent Characters) special rule. My question is whether I can benefit from Preferred Enemy when shooting at a mixed unit, where an Independent Character is being shielded by other infantry. For the sake of argument let's consider a 20-man Tactical blob with embedded Chaplain. If I shoot at the unit, does this constitute 'attacking its Preferred Enemy' and hence provide rerolls, even if these shots are being resolved against Tacticals standing in the way? Or does it only count when the Chaplain is on his own and not joined to any units at all? Many thanks for the help, and hopefully a consistent answer from the community. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Personally I only think this works when attacking an Independent Character. So either in a challenge or shooting at them on there own. A Tau character had the same thing and I think FW clarified that he only took effect when attacking a IC so I would use that ruling. Hey I maybe wrong here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4229896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I emailed FW about that a while ago; they said it's only when you directly affect an IC. IE fighting in a challenge, precision shots/hits allocated to them etc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4230856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I emailed FW about that a while ago; they said it's only when you directly affect an IC. IE fighting in a challenge, precision shots/hits allocated to them etc So, outside challanges and "precision hitting" this rule is useless? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4237820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Unfortunately. I thought it was to take out command and their bodyguard. Like how furies deal with the body guard and the chooser goes for the leader. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4237904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I just realized (not a great discovery) that PF is wasted even with precision strikes - with PS you can allocate a wound on "6" to hit only. PF allows you to reroll "1" which you cannot reroll cause you're not targeting "for whom..." target (assuming Independet is in a unit). Totally useless in shooting - only challenges benefit. If I may offtop a little - are Dark Furies good? I'm yet to play a battle as a RG and on paper they look really nice (accompanied by character with attached Void Shield). Also is it worth to upgrade some/most/all of them to Raven's Talons? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4237953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 You'll get a reroll to wound though, since the wound is allocated against an IC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4237959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Have a look at the wording. Rerolling missed rolls to hit and rolls of 1 to wound. Miss on any roll, reroll. Roll a 1 to wound. Reroll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4238100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemujinZero Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'd totally never noticed that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4242954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 If I shoot at the unit, does this constitute 'attacking its Preferred Enemy' and hence provide rerolls, even if these shots are being resolved against Tacticals standing in the way? Kind of answering your own question there. You are shooting at the unit, not the independent character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4243201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Have a look at the wording. Rerolling missed rolls to hit and rolls of 1 to wound. Miss on any roll, reroll. Roll a 1 to wound. Reroll. Preferred Enemy doesn't say that. It says "...re-rolls failed To Hit and To Wound rolls of 1 if attacking it's Preferred Enemy." The sentence structure is such that To Hit and To Wound and grouped together. Suggesting that you re-roll ALL To Hit rolls is never going to fly. I believe 6th Edition had a less concrete sentence, but not any more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4244491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 If you rolled a 1 to hit, the qualifier for failed to hit wouldn't be necessary. Failed rolls to hit To wound rolls of 1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4244563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Ah! Yes, I see it now. Sorry mate! :) That is VERY interesting... Quite a buff for the rule, if that's how it's meant to be played (and they haven't made a grammatical error). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4244580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 No drama. Gw don't understand half the rules they write anyway. XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4244586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 · Hidden by Flint13, December 6, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by Flint13, December 6, 2015 - No reason given The grammar on it supports either interpretation sadly so it'll cause a lot of arguments; a comma would have sealed it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4244671
TemujinZero Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 · Hidden by Flint13, December 6, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by Flint13, December 6, 2015 - No reason given Grammatically it goes either way, but one reading relies on the phrase 'failed roll of 1' which doesn't make any sense. Rerolling all failed to hit rolls seems like a cleaner reading to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4244729
SkimaskMohawk Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 · Hidden by Flint13, December 6, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by Flint13, December 6, 2015 - No reason given How does it not make sense? You can fail on a roll of 2 or 1 to hit with most marine things, it specifies 1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4244870
Massaen Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I don't follow you - I have BS 4 and roll a 2 to hit - this is a miss and PE can not activate as I have not rolled a 1... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4261133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 You reroll misses You reroll to wound rolls of 1. Its what the text says. If it was reroll to hit rolls of 1, it would say that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4261465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 It says reroll to hit and wound rolls of 1. Grammatically it works more in favor of 1s than all to hits and 1s to wound. There needs to be a comma to break the sentence structure Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4261477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 To hit rolls of one is different than misses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4261500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 That's just cartoonishly picky semantics, and technically incorrect grammar (I know grammar's not the right word, but I can't spell what I mean). If it were the two separate it would be "failed to hit rolls, and to wound rolls of 1". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4261688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 So missing words is more accurate than a missing comma? You can all play it how you want, I guess. You're not going to get people to agree on it if they disagree. That said, I'm going to continue to play it where I reroll my misses and my to wound rolls of 1. It's the same thing as that facebook 3-3*6+2 can equal either -13 or -17, depending on where you apply things and in the order you read them. Both can be technically correct. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4261695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Honestly if I was playing against someone trying to argue to get all rerolls to hit, I'd say no you don't get that. The rules were clearly meant to let you just reroll 1s like preferred enemy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4261698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 The words here are actually in place though, just left to a later section of the sentence for structural neatness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316249-decapitation-strike-for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#findComment-4261702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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