[HH1.0] Dark Angels Tactics

[Charlo]

Plus bolters all get +1 to wound. Killing basic mooks on a 2+ is nice.

[rendingon1+]

Nothing Here.

Edited March 5, 2016 by rendingon1+

[Charlo]

Today I found something cool (or not in which case my DA depression deepens).

How about boarding shield (defensive grenades) and stasis shells (-1I and WS)?

1. You throw defensive grenade first, if target unit fails their Blind test they are WS1. Then you fire stsis shell....and target unit is WS0 (autohits and cannot attack at all). (yes, I know I4< all around but...)

2. You shoot stasis shell first. Target unit is at -1I now so if you throw defensive grenade at them they are I3 and more likely fail their Blind test.

 

What do you think?

That's actually... Really cool! And a little broken haha!

[rendingon1+]

Delated my post because I noticed that Stasis Shells can only lower I and WS to min of 1.

So second option stays at least :)

Edited March 5, 2016 by rendingon1+

[depthcharge12]

So here's my pitch that I've underlooked:

 

1.) Take Ironwing RoW

 

2.) Take a land raider SQUADRON with at least one proteus with the explorator array (I'd actually take all proteus bc it's cheaper and you don't need to assault with your shooty troops)

 

3.) Load your minimum tactical or breacher squads into the land raiders

 

4.) Scout first turn WITH THE ENTIRE LR SQUADRON (one has it, therefore it is conferred on the whole tank squad)

 

5.) Shoot stuff dead with BS5 twin linked lascannons, pintle multi meltas, and bolters with their +1 to wound for shooting. I'd recommend chargers on a support squad for essentially S6 2 shot assault deflagrate weapons of doom.

 

Fill up the rest of your list with other shooty and shabby stuff.

 

3 proteus w/1 array

650 points

 

2 tactical squads (10)

300

 

5 plasma support marines

175

 

Total: 1125

 

still have 875 points to take a Delegatus, some Sicarans, and maybe a couple two tree dreadnoughts of your choosing. Or maybe take two executioner predators or a Scorpius.

 

Have fun :)

[Erren]

Ehh... I'm not sold on mass land raiders. Seems like an awful lot of points for the offensive output. Maybe it could work for a little while in a local meta? If you think it'd work for you, by all means try it, but I find my land raiders don't last all that long. Also, Volkite Chargers don't benefit from Ironwing - only pistols, rapid fire, and salvo. So Serpentas would benefit, but I don't think anyone's going to be wild about paying for mass Serpentas.

[The Lord of Iron]

So here's my pitch that I've underlooked:

 

1.) Take Ironwing RoW

 

2.) Take a land raider SQUADRON with at least one proteus with the explorator array (I'd actually take all proteus bc it's cheaper and you don't need to assault with your shooty troops)

 

3.) Load your minimum tactical or breacher squads into the land raiders

 

4.) Scout first turn WITH THE ENTIRE LR SQUADRON (one has it, therefore it is conferred on the whole tank squad)

 

5.) Shoot stuff dead with BS5 twin linked lascannons, pintle multi meltas, and bolters with their +1 to wound for shooting. I'd recommend chargers on a support squad for essentially S6 2 shot assault deflagrate weapons of doom.

 

Fill up the rest of your list with other shooty and shabby stuff.

 

3 proteus w/1 array

650 points

 

2 tactical squads (10)

300

 

5 plasma support marines

175

 

Total: 1125

 

still have 875 points to take a Delegatus, some Sicarans, and maybe a couple two tree dreadnoughts of your choosing. Or maybe take two executioner predators or a Scorpius.

 

Have fun

 

Here is the thing. As the rule stands it says "at least half of the units of in the army must be vehicles with the Tank type". The normal rule book says under squadrons that "squadrons are treated like normal units". So as the rules are written each vehicle squadron only offsets one other unit meaning you literally cannot run your list as is. As has been pointed out before, not counting a command rhino, you can have a maximum of three units without some form of dedicated transport. On top of that one of those three slots has to go to the master of the legion so you can use the right of war at all. sorry but the list as its stands is just not viable.

 

 

Ehh... I'm not sold on mass land raiders. Seems like an awful lot of points for the offensive output. Maybe it could work for a little while in a local meta? If you think it'd work for you, by all means try it, but I find my land raiders don't last all that long. Also, Volkite Chargers don't benefit from Ironwing - only pistols, rapid fire, and salvo. So Serpentas would benefit, but I don't think anyone's going to be wild about paying for mass Serpentas.

 

to be fair to mass land raiders I find that most groups seem to be saturated with Spartans and Typhons, so it could be good for hunting low level vehicles. Plus if you are going to be using such a restrictive right of war you might as well get the most out of it, and weapons that roll to hit benefit the most from the +1 bs. 

 

and personally I'm a big fan of the massed land-raider precision shooting thing.

Edited March 10, 2016 by The Lord of Iron

[nightwrench]

What are people doing for their leader in Iron Wing?  Are you putting them on a jetbike or bike to get around the restriction of having to have them start in a transport?   I also do not understand the need to put tanks in squadrons of 3.  I understand you want to benefit from the BS5 for as long as possible but by turn 3 you are not always able to find targets where the BS5 is going to mean as much.

 

I also do not think that Iron Wing will struggle to remove infantry.  It is arguably what we will do best.  Bolters and bolt pistols are +1 to wound inside of rapid fire/charge range and heavy support is full of "watch me remove infantry from the table"

 

Iron Wing would have been significantly more flexible if the restriction was "half the units must be of the vehicle type".  That would solve all of the issues.  It should be noted that in the armoured breakthrough it states; "all such vehicles must have the tank or super-heavy tank type".  The latter does not exist.  I am not going to lament the bad proofing as we all know it exists.  It is just a fact of life.

 

Vindicators (either option but the laser destroyer array is an auto include in my book...twin linked BS5 multi shot platform that has str 9 and ordnance.)

Plasma preds

HCB preds

Melta preds (I do not like being that close with preds though)

Medusas (also good vs a Spartan) and you can take a whirlwind to keep the cost down for BS5.

 

On the predators I would recommend the pintle combi-bolter to give a better chance if a weapon destroyed result is rolled.  I lost an HCB the other day from a snap shooting land raider that I had just stunned the turn before...

 

 

 

I think we all agree that two tactical squads in rhinos might as well be considered compulsory as there are no transports that can carry assault squads and breachers while winning the rule of cool have to take a land raider and the proteus is only beneficial with the exploratory web and well that makes it a capacity of 8.  Ugh.

 

The good thing is we have two units of troops and two tanks for less than 400 points (you can season to taste but I am starting with mins for now...season later.)

 

Right now after an HQ selection (Delegatus or Praetor) and two troops we are at -1 to the tank/non-tank restriction

 

We need to fill 3 major battle rolls still.

 

Anti-Spartan

Anti-AV2 

Assault element or anti-assault.  

 

Vindi laser destroyers will help with anti-spartan.  I personally like heavy graviton cannons but sadly they are not a tank and cannot get a tank as a dedicated transport.

 

A squadron of two is a good place to start.  That gets us back to even with the limitation.

Anti av2 I am liking plasma preds.  A squad of two will be popping 6 templates with very minimal scatter.  

 

So far we are at roughly 1k points and are at +1 tanks to the limitations and have 6 tanks to help minimize the other limitation of giving up a secondary objective point.

 

We still have 1 heavy support choice left and 1 HQ choice left to get a tank type to keep things in balance.  

 

We need some counter assault and honestly some more anti-tank.  I want to put dreads in this army but their talon rules impact the restrictions to much.  Maybe one mortis dread, I would consider the legion one over the contemptor but both give you some anti air.  I would like to keep the HB on them and upgrade to the DA shells and give them two HK missiles.  It would be the bane of FMC...

 

I think the question of graviton cannons, mortis or both is a personal choice.  The Deredo is most likely a no go as we need the heavy slot.  A dedicated assault unit (command squad, legion terms, or vets) is probably necessary. A dedicated transport, Spartan or Caestus will be necessary.  

 

With our commander we either have to save room for him with the counter assault element or stick him on a jetbike and give him the HB rounds.  This actually sounds like a lot of fun to me.  

 

I do like the Spartan in this RoW.  You will have a tankie tank which is good. If your gaming group/tournament lets you take a Typhon or Manchurius Vulcan (15 str 6 ap 3 shots x2) and count it as a tank then that would be my go to lord of war for 2500 points and less.  I am a fan of the Caestus and using a Damocles as well.  The bombardment, reserve manipulation and no scatter on the deep strike gives you a great chance to get a Caestus in turn 2 where you want it.  You can limit the impacts of sky fire and interceptor fire with placement as well.  You cannot pivot except in the shooting phase, if you are outside the 45 arc on a dread no shots from it during interceptor.  

 

Some people are really up on the land raider squadron. With no upgrades it is 160 points more than a Spartan for the same number of las cannon shots.  Yes you are at BS5 vs BS4 and have more target flexibility with the power of the machine spirit.  You could shoot at 3 different targets but it is only one las cannon at each target and two at one. You get no bonuses to ignore stunned etc as you do in the SM codex formation.  You have less carrying capacity and have to stay in coherency.  Some math behind the points.

 

Each BS5 shot has a 83% chance of hitting.  Factoring in the re-roll you get 97% chance of hitting on each las cannon.  At BS4 you get 89% chance of hitting with each las cannon.  You are paying 160 points for some minor target flexibility 3 more hull points and less chance at surviving and carrying capacity.  If you add in armored ceramite then you have hit 200 more points.  Now on the Achilles if the shatter shells were barrage so you could go character/apoth hunting I could maybe see it.  The Achilles is 88% the cost of a fully upgraded Spartan so your point differential is even worse.  

 

Now if your plan is to take a Proteus and an Achilles and scout them up and unload plasma squads.  I can maybe see that...that is a lot of alpha strike pain potential.  Unfortunately it works even better in an Iron Hands list with Autek Mor as your warlord delving out preferred enemy infantry.  

 

I like the Iron Wing RoW.   It could be fun but it can be expensive.  You have to keep in mind your meta and battlefield needs when building the list.  

 

I thought of this after the fact.  A pravian with some robots makes an effective counter assault/assault unit.  They could as one unit and a Calabite blade on the officer is not a bad option as the bots have AP2 attacks already.  Right now there is no benefit to making them LADA.  The bolters would benefit from the +1 to wound but the other weapons would not.  Tank hunter might be a better option.  Combi-grenade, blade and boarding shield on the Pravian.  Good load out.

 

Thanks! 

Edited March 13, 2016 by nightwrench

[The Lord of Iron]

Wow That is a lot of information to process.    You certainly put a lot of thought and love into this game. 

 

I base my argument that Iron wing has trouble removing infantry on the fact that if you attempt to maximize the benefits of this right of war (which with such a restrictive right I believe we will want to) you are going to have to sacrifice the ability to deal with infantry. Certain legions employ in large numbers infantry units that are very effective at dealing with tanks from long range, Iron warriors with tyrants and havocs, Imperial fists Heavy support squads with tank hunter, Ultramarines Giving pseudo tank hunter to heavy support squads, rapiers and Fulmentarus, Death guard Heavy Support spam, Alpha legion tank hunter lists, And general use of long range infantry are all going to be able to trade very effectively with a tank heavy army from across the table.

 

Looking at what Iron wing gives us. First +1 Bs to all tanks in squadrons, the big one, this does apply to all tanks in squadrons but only benefits a smaller group of them. Anything that rolls to hit will experience a 16.67% increase in efficiency so Land raiders, dakka preds, las-cannon vindicators all work really well with this bonus. Next up is small template weapons here we have to make some assumptions. assuming that you position the template in such a way that every edge can touch something than you are going to essentially have a buffer zone on it. when rolling to hit you subtract the Bs of the shooter and the length of the template (practically not in the rules) to find out what it is you hit. So if you roll a miss a normal pred can move the template 7" total (if placed as above) before you hit nothing with +1Bs upping that distance 8''. Now the difference between rolling 7'' and 8'' is about 13.8% so anything that can filing around small templates will experience a generous boost as well, meaning plasma preds. Finally large blast templates, without going into such long winded explanation using the same argument they experience a little over 5% increase in accuracy, less than half of the next type up.

 

Based on this you would want to take land raiders, dakka preds (heavy bolters or las-cannon), las-cannon vindicators, and plasma preds. All of which lack the range or number of shots to trade with significant amounts of infantry. Plasma pred could do the job but depending on what your opponet brings and how many you bring they may be unable to cross the 12'' - 18'' gap at the beginning of the game to be effective.

 

Next we +1 to wound on pistols, rapid fire, and salvo weapons at 12'' or less. A nice 16.67% increase in damage to our line troops. Really good against melee focused legions, but against anything that wants to have a long range slug fest is going to be a challenge. 12'' range limit means that even with a mandatory transport it is going to take 3-4 turns to cross no mans land to get it. All the while being an open target to anti tank fire, potentially stranding your unit.

 

Skipping "dust of untold worlds" as it has no benefits when it comes to trading.

 

Finally you have fear and tank hunter on all dreads. To make the most of this you would want to kit your dreads out for tank hunting duty. Melee dread while excellent at trading will not help in the least when it comes to long range trades. leaving rifleman dreads to do the job. what is optimal form tank hunting is not for infantry duty so while a las-cannon pred would probably work the best from the longest range you would need to compromise with auto-cannons, assault cannons, or volkite. each is progressively better at dealing with infantry but progressively worse at dealing with armor. Auto cannons experience a 33% decreased armor pen rate and flat out cannot pen av 14, assault cannons experience another 16.67% reduction on top of that (but by the virtue of rending can still go land raider hunting albeit on incredibly long odds), and volkite are the same as assault cannons without rending. Where you are willing to make that trade of anti tank vs anti infantry. Keep in mind that with tank hunter those percentages will go down a great deal.

 

So looking at this I would run something with a few tactical squads in rhinos, a squad of 3 predators heavy bolters and a plasma, a two man squad of land raiders Proteus with an Exploratory web, a Scorpius a contemptor dread squad with two dreads one with assault cannons the other with las-cannons, A lighting, and whatever HQ i can fit that can take a row. Now i haven't done the math yet but that should put you somewhere in the neighborhood of 2000 - 2500 for a fairly decent list.

[nightwrench]

Thank you for the thought out reply.  I hope we can get some dialogue going back and forth.  First thing is first...do not consider rapiers...they are infantry. Only transport option is a pod which makes them count as two units.  I am getting the white out for my thin book...see the drop pod says open topped tank...yup no go.

 

Wow That is a lot of information to process.    You certainly put a lot of thought and love into this game. 

 

I base my argument that Iron wing has trouble removing infantry on the fact that if you attempt to maximize the benefits of this right of war (which with such a restrictive right I believe we will want to) you are going to have to sacrifice the ability to deal with infantry. Certain legions employ in large numbers infantry units that are very effective at dealing with tanks from long range, Iron warriors with tyrants and havocs, Imperial fists Heavy support squads with tank hunter, Ultramarines Giving pseudo tank hunter to heavy support squads, rapiers and Fulmentarus, Death guard Heavy Support spam, Alpha legion tank hunter lists, And general use of long range infantry are all going to be able to trade very effectively with a tank heavy army from across the table.

 

Tyrant terms are moving to heavy support and are not what I would consider cheap point wise.  They are not twin linked and get 8 krak shots with the chance for one split fire for a total of 10.  Iron havocs cost 1.4 times a normal heavy squad and add las to them balloons them up to skirting with land raider cost.  ML are cheaper but basically you have a less effective version of the tyrant terms.  Death Guard still have to take two compulsory troops before the heavy squads.  I see them a lot with las cannon and heavy flamers because of their shred rule.  IF have the most efficient heavy squads. I typically see people taking choom though on all heavy squads (when available) which cannot hurt 13 front armor.  Rapiers are a concern especially the graviton ones.  Our "dust of untold worlds" actually helps mitigate the first round of shooting.  Also with good placement they should hopefully only get one vehicle in the squad.

 

 

 

 

Looking at what Iron wing gives us. First +1 Bs to all tanks in squadrons, the big one, this does apply to all tanks in squadrons but only benefits a smaller group of them. Anything that rolls to hit will experience a 16.67% increase in efficiency so Land raiders, dakka preds, las-cannon vindicators all work really well with this bonus. Next up is small template weapons here we have to make some assumptions. assuming that you position the template in such a way that every edge can touch something than you are going to essentially have a buffer zone on it. when rolling to hit you subtract the Bs of the shooter and the length of the template (practically not in the rules) to find out what it is you hit. So if you roll a miss a normal pred can move the template 7" total (if placed as above) before you hit nothing with +1Bs upping that distance 8''. Now the difference between rolling 7'' and 8'' is about 13.8% so anything that can filing around small templates will experience a generous boost as well, meaning plasma preds. Finally large blast templates, without going into such long winded explanation using the same argument they experience a little over 5% increase in accuracy, less than half of the next type up.

 

Based on this you would want to take land raiders, dakka preds (heavy bolters or las-cannon), las-cannon vindicators, and plasma preds. All of which lack the range or number of shots to trade with significant amounts of infantry. Plasma pred could do the job but depending on what your opponet brings and how many you bring they may be unable to cross the 12'' - 18'' gap at the beginning of the game to be effective.

 

 

 

 

The land raiders only get about a 9% bonus as they are already twin linked.  Regular non template preds get the biggest bonus of 16.7%.  ML are 48 inch range as are las cannons.  I believe plasma cannons are 36 so you have an effective 42 in range with them.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

So looking at this I would run something with a few tactical squads in rhinos, a squad of 3 predators heavy bolters and a plasma, a two man squad of land raiders Proteus with an Exploratory web, a Scorpius a contemptor dread squad with two dreads one with assault cannons the other with las-cannons, A lighting, and whatever HQ i can fit that can take a row. Now i haven't done the math yet but that should put you somewhere in the neighborhood of 2000 - 2500 for a fairly decent list.

 

You have all of your heavy slots taken up and have 4 non-tank units that are not covered.  HQ, Lightning, and two dreads.  Each dread is a unit even if bought in a talon.  The talon governs deployment rules.  Your only option left is to take a Damocles.

 

I still am not sold on the land raiders.  I would rather have a Typhon or a Cerebus for the same cost and offset it with a a Sicaran or Scorpius.  Spartans are going to be an issue.  I am thinking a Venetar might have to be an include too. 

 

My typical way of dealing with spartan is ignore them or grav/chain fist/melta bomb them to death.  It depends if I have a Spartan or not.  

 

[Hesh Kadesh]

You can take Rapiers; they're an artillery unit, which are explicitly made up with an artillery gun and infantry type gunners. It doesn't say models, but FW/GW have never been very good at identifying multiple unit types.

 

If you want BS5 units, I think HCB Pred's, AutoLas Predators and Vindi-TD's are where it's at, and they suit a stand off approach. The rest supports getting in close - due to the +1 to wound limitations basically meaning Bolters or Volkite Serpenta Veterans (Sniper S6 Deflagrate Pistols sound like heaven until you realise that they have no real way of getting close to 9" to make full use of that rule). That Veterans share a slot with your Anti-Spartan Grav Rapiers and/or Podded Dreadnoughts is an issue also.

 

That said, if you're closing to 12" range, it puts you in range of an enemy Spartan payload anyway. Is is really necessary to have something to counter a Spartan? Spartan's have ceased to be a relevant threat, with many opting for the more resilient Kharybdis or Dreadclaw almost "msu" style approach.

 

As mentioned, your Master of the Legion needs to be on a Bike/Jetbike, and of those, you get Outriders, Skyhunters and Command Squads (on either). Command Squads get expensive, and I'm not that impressed by them, and Skyhunters have Heavy Weapons so no real bonuses. Outriders, however, get Power Weapons, and TL'd Rapid Fire Bolters on top of Scout.

 

Taking Dreadnoughts, you can't really Pod them either, because then that's 2 Tank units to find.

 

Delegatus, SMB, Calibanite Warblade = 100pts (1 Unit, 0 Tanks)

 

Tactical Squad, Rhino, (3 Units, 1 Tank)

Tactical Squad, Rhino, (5 Units, 2 Tank)

 

Outrider Squad (6 Units, 2 Tank); Delegatus Bodyguard

 

Predator Squadron (7 Units, 3 Tank)

Predator Squadron (8 Units, 4 Tank), or Land Raider, Vindicator, or Artillery Squadron

Predator Squadron (9 Units, 5 Tank), or Land Raider, Vindicator, or Artillery Squadron

 

You can now take one other unit, with the exception of those with Tank Dedicated Transports;, so lets call it a Dreadnought. On foot, because Pod's is another unit to find a Tank-offset. Contemptor-Mortis for AA work with dual Autocannons gives you a TL'd S7 Tank Hunter with Skyfire and Interceptor, or dual TL'd Culverin to help with infantry/MC duties.

 

So any of the following;

 

Command Squad, Rhino/Proteus

Veteran Tactical Squad, Rhino

Destroyer Squad, Rhino/Proteus

Terminator Squad, Phobos/Spartan

Techmarine Covenant, each must have a Rhino

Tactical Squad, Rhino

Breacher Siege Squad, Phobos/Proteus

Tactical Support Squad, Rhino (gives a reason at least for the awesome Rotor Cannon models to be used and not painted Red)

Reconnaissance Squad, Rhino

Seeker Squad, Rhino

 

Seeker Squads with their access to things like their S4 Blast Shooting and some combi-weapons. Rotor Cannon Tactical Support Squads become more viable, Techmarine Covenant provide a ton of ram raiding and Line of Sight blocking Rhino's (that does go both ways however) while your techmarines fix up your long range tank squadrons.

 

It's very poorly thought out, but it's still one of my favourite.

[Erren]

I thought about taking a bike/jetbike unit to ferry around a Praetor, but in the end I decided my plan would be to stick a delegatus in an objective-camping Rhino with a Tac Support Squad. That lets me focus more on what Ironwing tries to be good at and take another dreadnought (or a pod for the solo one). I hadn't really thought about techmarines in rhinos. Their servo-automata can take rotor cannons that would benefit from the Rite too, as far as I can tell.

[Slips]

An HQ on Jetbike w/ Molecular Acid Jetbikes would be a pretty good anti-infantry unit.

 

Being Poisoned 2+ and Ap3 or better half the time or Ap2 a third of the time or better means that, due to them being a fast relentless platform with 3 shots per bike, able to dish out some gnarly damage.

 

It also lets them handily deal with any MC's (Mechanicum) they might come across.

 

Slap on some Melta Bombs and they can also tackle armor if needed.

 

Outriders w/ Twin-Linked Plasma are a bit more reliable but are slightly less durable (2+ vs 3+) but pack more of a CC punch since you can take more Power Weapons on them.

[Charlo]

Outriders with plasma REPEATERS!

 

Although I'm still not sold on if that is allowed.

 

Otherwise a great breakdown of the rite!

 

I will chip in though that even with the benefit of the rite, rotor cannon servitors probably aren't worth it at all. They will suck on both the offensive and defensive. Only really thing going for them is that they have T5.

[ShadowCore67]

My plan for RW Protocol (Just to start) is a praetor and command squad on jetbikes with acid shells and combi-stasis launchers and rad grenades. I'm going to start with giving the praetor the terranic greatsword and based on it's performance I'll keep it or go back to paragon.

 

The rest of the army will be a several outrider squads, smaller ones with melta and larger ones with plasma (Repeaters depending on what the ruling is on this issue), each with power swords and sergeants with rad grenades and calibanite warblades. Depending on positioning, melta bikes will move off table and outflank to get better angles on any vehicles my enemy may have.

 

The entire list ends up being somewhere around the 2500 mark which sounds good for starting my next legion.

 

On a side note, what do you guys think of using 40k Ravenwing bikers for outriders? Would be much cheaper and you would even get some extra Dark Angel/Ravenwing iconography. Obviously I'll buy Dark Angel marine heads, shoulders, etc. from Forgeworld to make them look more 30k.

 

My only worry is that I'll go to all the work to make these bike squads then DA will get a special bike unit 

 

[Hesh Kadesh]

The problem with that Ironwing list is that you can only have a maximum of 3 non Rhino transported units in a list, and that includes the Praetor, Command Squad and Outriders, Dreadnought Talons and any Drop Pods they wish to take etc.

[Spinsanity]

The problem with that Ironwing list is that you can only have a maximum of 3 non Rhino transported units in a list, and that includes the Praetor, Command Squad and Outriders, Dreadnought Talons and any Drop Pods they wish to take etc.

Why do people keep perpetuating that number? Sure it's not particularly great in an Ironwing army, but the Damocles does open a 4th non-tank slot..

[Hesh Kadesh]

Because forgetfulness. Apologies for lacking perfection.

[Spinsanity]

That wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular, it's just that number keeps on coming up as a hard limit as though the Damocles is universaly dismissed, or because one of the HS slots somehow had to be reserved for a non-tank entry...

[Cloud Runner]

The problem with that Ironwing list is that you can only have a maximum of 3 non Rhino transported units in a list, and that includes the Praetor, Command Squad and Outriders, Dreadnought Talons and any Drop Pods they wish to take etc.

 

Also, the command squad can take a dedicated transport (rhino/raider depending on option) so they can be balanced automatically.

 

I think the Ironwing Rite will need clarifying/explaining some more from FW, but it gives the idea beautifully - mech inf force with tank support, which Ironwing has always been.

 

Yes we're restricted with some of the other items (i'd love to do bikes/lightnings for a blitzkrieg style list) but they just have to be adapted.

 

And just because you get bonuses to certain units, you don't have to take them every time.

 

 

Personally, I'll probably be sticking more with Pride of the Legion, but I'll certainly give this a spin or two for fun :)

[nightwrench]

Here is the current problem. 

 

There are 4 available non-dedicated transport options to provide list flexibility.  You are almost forced to take all tank units in your heavy support slot to provide the requirements necessary.

 

 

The following units do not have a dedicated tank transport available to them and have uses in a list to provide anti-tank, anti-troop or scoring.

 

Rapiers

Dreadnaughts (each member of the talon is a unit...ouch)

Apothecaries - Think about this.  A leader, command squad and an apothecary are three units. 

 

Any unit with a jump pack

 

Lightning

Dreadclaw

land speeders

bikes

jet bikes

Attack Bikes

Robots

Storm Eagle

 

Fire Raptor

Big Claw

 

Currently any Super Heavy. 

 

 

When you start getting into higher point totals this get more problematic as people bring super heavies and more heavy armor/flyers.  The pain is we are forced into two 10 man rhino tac squads.  It is list flexibility that I question as points increase.

Edited March 15, 2016 by nightwrench

[Charlo]

Trying to make some Ironwing work - seekers in an uncharacteristic Rhino could well work.

 

Maybe avoid the combis and focus on the hilarity that is Tempest bolts under the rite. They now harm Marines on a 4+ and every seeker is like half a quad mortar. Plus they're in fast attack which will be a not very often used slot in Ironwing.

 

Mortis dreads seem great too with tank hunters and skyfire/ intercept on lascannons. Expensive but lethal.

 

Im working up a list and I'm wondering if an expensive CC unit (terms/vets in a Spartan) is even worth it - maybe just focus on firepower wholly and mobile dudes to bring that +1 to wound to bear.

[Slips]

Only problem with the Seeker thing is that Tempest Bolts are 18" range meaning 9" for Rapid Fire.

[Frater Cornelius]

Trying to make some Ironwing work - seekers in an uncharacteristic Rhino could well work.

 

Maybe avoid the combis and focus on the hilarity that is Tempest bolts under the rite. They now harm Marines on a 4+ and every seeker is like half a quad mortar. Plus they're in fast attack which will be a not very often used slot in Ironwing.

 

Mortis dreads seem great too with tank hunters and skyfire/ intercept on lascannons. Expensive but lethal.

 

Im working up a list and I'm wondering if an expensive CC unit (terms/vets in a Spartan) is even worth it - maybe just focus on firepower wholly and mobile dudes to bring that +1 to wound to bear.

 

The problem is that people will try to kill the Spartan and once it is down, you will have a lot of points walking across the board. Are you confident enough that you have enough different targets that will draw anti-tank fire that would be meant for a Spartan? If so, you can not go wrong with a bit of punching. Having said that, I almost always prefer a Phobos, du to reduced cost and lower threat levels.

[Charlo]

Only problem with the Seeker thing is that Tempest Bolts are 18" range meaning 9" for Rapid Fire.

Aye I'd be putting them in a rhino to get in range. Using them more like mobile artillery than the scalpel that combi armed ones are.

 

Here's the list as it stands at 2.5k it's suppose to use mobility and firepower to just try and whittle the enemy down and then take objectives with a nice amount of scoring units.

 

Preds take out footmen. Vindis handle tanks. Medusas do both.

 

Was going to go with either Jetbikes or Attack bikes with aside shells. Originally I had a Heavy support squad in a rhino but that just isn't viable when you need all the heavy slots.

 

The Tacs have combat weapons to take advantage of the legion rules but I am unsure.

 

 

+++ IronWing (2500pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) ++

 

+ HQ (165pts) +

 

Legion Centurion (165pts) [Artificer Armour, Legion Scimitar Jetbike with Heavy Bolter, Melta Bombs, Refractor Field, Terranic Greatsword, Acid Shells]

····Consul [Delegatus]

.... Master of the Legion [ironwing Protocol]

 

+ Troops (715pts) +

 

Legion Tactical Squad (240pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Tactical Squad (240pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Tactical Support Squad (270pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 5x Legion Space Marines, Plasma Repeaters]

····Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Bolter and Augury Scanner]

 

+ Fast Attack (550pts) +

 

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (255pts) [Acid Shells, 5x Space Marine Sky Hunters]

····Sky Hunter Sergeant [Power Weapon]

 

Legion Seeker Squad (295pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 8x Legion Seeker Space Marines]

····Legion Strike Leader [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

+ Heavy Support (1035pts) +

 

Legion Artillery Tank Squadron (320pts)

····Legion Medusa [Twin-Linked Bolter]

····Legion Medusa [Twin-Linked Bolter]

 

Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron (435pts)

····Legion Predator Tank [Executioner Plasma Cannon, Havoc Launcher, Heavy Bolters]

····Legion Predator Tank [Executioner Plasma Cannon, Havoc Launcher, Heavy Bolters]

····Legion Predator Tank [Executioner Plasma Cannon, Havoc Launcher, Heavy Bolters]

 

Legion Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron (280pts)

····Legion Vindicator Tank [Combi-Weapon, Laser Destroyer Array]

····Legion Vindicator Tank [Combi-Weapon, Laser Destroyer Array]