[HH1.0] Dark Angels Tactics

[Erren]

I hate to see lists go without comment, so I'll give what feedback I can. I haven't played with the new DA rules yet, so this may not be worth anything...

 

Don't buy Artificer Armour for you HQ on jet bike: the bike automatically confers a 2+ save.

Have you had success with extra CC weapons on 10-man Tac Squads? I personally like the 185 min-point Tac Squad in Rhino.

I really dislike the Plasma Repeater on paper, but no harm in trying it out, I guess. I feel like I would miss the 12"-24" range unless I were playing ZM.

I always overlook Havoc Launchers. Do you face some Army forces regularly?

No dreads? :sad:

[Charlo]

I hate to see lists go without comment, so I'll give what feedback I can. I haven't played with the new DA rules yet, so this may not be worth anything...

 

Don't buy Artificer Armour for you HQ on jet bike: the bike automatically confers a 2+ save.

OOPS!

Have you had success with extra CC weapons on 10-man Tac Squads? I personally like the 185 min-point Tac Squad in Rhino.

This is something I'm unsure of. On the one hand they get the 3+ to hit in combat and it gives them an extra attack if charged/ charging. As I'd rather have a power weapon (with extra strength for free!) than a combi grenade the 40pts make sense for getting the most out of the unit maybe?

I really dislike the Plasma Repeater on paper, but no harm in trying it out, I guess. I feel like I would miss the 12"-24" range unless I were playing ZM.

In truth these were a late editon - I have the points for them spare and need to run something in a tank to balance the list out, plus repeaters are cool - admittedly I keep forgetting they are 6" on the move :/ suggested swap?

I always overlook Havoc Launchers. Do you face some Army forces regularly?

Line of thinking was purely to hammer out saves on the units. Preds add massed anti 2+ with the turrets so I figured I may as well add more volume of fire, and a third heavy bolter would be a little boring

No dreads? :sad:

I originally had a twin lascannon mortis in the army to take advantage of tank hunter and just totally roll any flyer as it came on. Statistically an easy two pens on any flyer it looks at for sure which is enough to handle lightnings that woudl threaten my tanks. Maybe I put him back in instead of the repeater squad - sadly repeaters are just a bit poop right now.

 

Replies in Red

 

Some more thoughts - I deleted the melee deathstar from the lsit for two reasons:

• Terminators in a Saprtan, while thematic here, are just boring and a big points sink. Spartan just becomes a big target...
• The list is aimed at shooting, sure a preator and some terms will rock forward and do damage, but I feel they'll soon wither and die left unsupported.

As for changes:

• The jetbikes still bug me - but I really want a way to get acid shells into the list enmasse so I can at least feel like a DA army. How do people feel attacks bikes compare to Jetbikes? They're similar in points but have a little more punch in CC, but change a 2+ for a wound and 3+...
• I am just lost on the HQ choice - do I need a preator with Paragon to be competetive - or do I keep in the delegatus with the instant death sword to lower points?

Halp.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Charlo

[Erren]

I agree on the Spartan. When I look at building up to 3k or so maybe, but right now we're sticking to 2000 (or lower!). I like taking the LasMortis over the plasma repeater squad, especially if you think you'll see fliers. I like jet bike squads, but if you swap to HBAB instead, there's at least room for a delegatus with terranic greatsword in the rhino with the seekers. One nice thing about HBAB is that many people already have the models available.

 

In a meaty CC Death Star, the praetor with paragon blade looks really nice, but the lists I've been building are more shooty, so I like the cheaper delegatus with terranic greatsword. It's a cheaper "don't mess with me" upgrade.

[Charlo]

Cool. Yeah it seems like a good compromise.

 

Ive had a think and I don't really like the Medusas either much. I'll be having them in my Traitor army most likely so I've decided to replace them with a scorpius. It's a little more marine centric and theme the list more (more Rhino chassis!) with that and the Morris replacing the special squad I have some more points to play with. Though whatever it is needs to be a tank, or something cheap along with a Damocles >.>

[Jerichus]

Hey fellow Primus Legionaires! I just got into the heresy stuff and I'm super pumped. I've yet to pick up the rules(they're on their way), and I was hoping I could ask you all for some help.

 

At the moment I've just been building what I think feels right flavor-wise, but I'd like to see if I can make anything remotely viable from it.

 

I currently have:

 

1 Centurion/Praetor in Cata Armor(Terranic Greatsword)

1 Consul Chaplain

1 Consul Librarian

1 HQ on Jetbike(converted Sammael Model)

 

1 5-Man Cataphractii squad (mix of chainfist, power fist, Combi-bolters/Plas, lightning claws and a sword on the sarge)

3 Contemptor Dreadnoughts (one with dual Kheres, one with MM/CCW, and one with Volkite and CCW)

 

2 15 man Tac Squads (modeled with extra CCW's, one sarge has a PF and the other a Calibanite Warblade)

 

3 Attack Bikes (I'm thinking heavy bolters to make use of the acid ammo)

1 6-man Outrider squad with Plasma(Black knights' models)

1 Xiphon Interceptor

3 Land Speeders (2 with MM, 1 with HB; thinking I'll grab some Grav guns to slap on them too) 

 

1 Sicaran Battle Tank w/ Lascannon sponsons.

 

I will soon have:

 

3 more jetbikes

 

Master of Signals/Legion Champion

10-man Veteran Squad (thinking heavy on the Calibanite Warblades, volkite pistolas, and maybe a heavy bolter?)

 

1 Land Raider Achilles-Alpha (unsure which sponsons to use, multi-melta seems good; but, Choom....)

1 Predator Executioner

1 Rhino

 

My plans after this would be to get a second B@C kit and build an Assault & 2 Heavy Support squads; what should I do with the remaining ten duders?

 

What else do you think I would need? I get the feeling my force is a bit schizophrenic at the moment; what should I do to either balance it out or go fully in one direction? I don't really want to go full Ironwing, but maybe a ravenwing-centric force would be cool?

 

Despite the fact the Ist legion isn't the best at CC at the moment I want to have a force that utilizes our unique rules and wargear.

 

Thanks all! I look forward to hearing whatever advice I can get

Edited March 19, 2016 by Jerichus

[depthcharge12]

My advice to you is to build with a "Wing" in mind. Without them, the list feels very generic and we don't have any buffs outside of the sword rule.

 

Ravenwing is likely the strongest, but expensive and a bit glass hammer to build. Ironwing is easier and cheaper to build, but has limited numbers of infantry to run with.

[Charlo]

My advice to you is to build with a "Wing" in mind. Without them, the list feels very generic and we don't have any buffs outside of the sword rule.

 

Ravenwing is likely the strongest, but expensive and a bit glass hammer to build. Ironwing is easier and cheaper to build, but has limited numbers of infantry to run with.

The basic rule is that you get up to four non tank choices, as long as you take a Damocles in HQ and three tanks in heavy support.

 

This includes your HQ, so three choices really.

 

Having been playing around with iron wing list hammer, it ain't easy, but it's all about really brining out those close range firefight bonuses supported by accurate mid to long range tank fire. Morris Dreads (while using one of your 4 nontank slots) handle Anti Air incredibly well and close combat dreads are awesome too. Though a pod to get them close is taking up two slots...

 

All about balance really!

[Kossaka]

Are you able to take a full talon of dreads and still have it only count as 1 non-vehicle unit for the sake of the Ironwing restrictions?

[The Lord of Iron]

I believe and would hope that an entire talon counts as a single units. It is one of our few work a rounds and is fairly fluffy for an iron wing list. I don't have the book in front of me but if we can't that would be one more restriction on an already restriction heavy rite.

[Charlo]

It's one of the muddy concepts. Half of the "units" need to be the tank type.

 

Now, dedicated transports are taken into account for this, so it means even though they occupy the same slot on the force orgs as thier cargo, they are still a separate unit.

 

Dread talons are also deployed and chosen as a single unit, but then are not bound to each other once the game begins.

 

The argument would be that, before the game begins, are they are single unit, or just three units in one slot.

 

I suppose it depends on the deployment rules for the talon to an extent?

[Cloud Runner]

Only problem with the Seeker thing is that Tempest Bolts are 18" range meaning 9" for Rapid Fire.

 

Pretty certain that's the rule for Salvo - rapid fire is always 12" double tap, or single at max range I thought?

 

 

I've been looking at a few ideas, and I think realistically there are two solutions to Ironwing

 

1. Dedicated transports wherever possible - remembering that certain units have access to different types of land raiders if you really want that type of armour

 

2. Build in mind with specific roles - for example, I'm toying with a 3 tank sabre squadron (laser destroyers!!) for dedicated anti-tank issues

 

 

The biggest change to Ironwing I feel is how we approach it - it works best when approached from a fluff persepective - mechanised infantry force with some backup.

 

In 30k 'reality' (as far as realism is concerned) a unit of dreads would attached to a mobile force would seriously slow the whole battle group down - you can only move as fast as the slowest member of the group.

 

It also has a real feel as being able to go with a Blitzkrieg (actual historical version) with a marine army:

 

 

Mech inf and supporting tanks moving through the middle

Outriders/jetbikes sweeping round the sides

Air support in whatever form is available

 

Yes the possibilities are limited, and there's less scope for other toys, but build an army to fit the theme, not fit a theme to the army you want to build.

 

And seekers with combi-meltas in a rhino would be lovely - pick a nice juicy vehicle unit (spartan, dread etc) and barrel over to it - hit it with the one shot meltas, then run in with the bombs.

 

Or go combi-grenade and use them as a support unit to veterans with power weapons to take down enemy infantry.

 

 

I think the rite is more about synergy in the army than any of the otehrs realistically, as you need to stack the odds in the areas you're strongest.

 

 

And get into those firefights!

 

 

TL;DR - fit to the fluffy theme, not to the army

[Slips]

Rapid Fire is Half Range, Double The Shots.

 

Salvo is is you move, half range, reduced number of shots.

[Kossaka]

Has anyone thoght about Vets with volkite serpentas? They meet the requirement for at or below S5 and they aren't assault or heavy so they get the +1 to wound.

[Slips]

I feel like those are points better spent on the Tac Vets. Its a nice fringe benefit but Serpentas are only 10" Range and if you're that close you have other things to worry about.

[Charlo]

I do like the serpentas on Vets, but at 5pts each it adds up.

 

A few sprinkled in though could be nice.

[The Lord of Iron]

It seems like almost everything that the dark angels have going for them is for veteran squads. 

[Slips]

Which makes sense :p

[LaborerDNA]

With just the addition of stasis grenade/rocket makes them super good-reducing those WS5 elite units and their initiative is super awesome-hitting first or same step and using our rules-3+ to hit with swords(you're using them with swords, right?).

 

Against more standard guys-they basically wreck meq-units.

[Forward Assist]

Anyone tinkered with Tac Support Squads with rotor cannons in an Iron Wing list? Put 10 in a rhino, Salvo 3/4 for 30 or 40 shots a turn, same effective strength as a bolter with the RoW buff. Any good?

[Charlo]

They're cheap fire support I suppose. I think they'd REALLY shine against Mechanicum or something, wounding on 5+ forcing saves. If they were S4 base I'd be sold. Otherwise... Not as much.

 

I suppose the real trick is that they are mobile though for a minimal decrease in effectiveness. You rush forward, unload them onto an objective and you have a pretty okay firebase... Hmm.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Charlo

[Count Douclar]

I have a question regarding combi-grenade launcher, can you get statis for it? And if so, does it cost another 5pts? If so, 15pts for a one use weapon seems to be a waste. Edited March 25, 2016 by Count Douclar

[Caillum]

Yes, you can. They cost a Terminator only 12 points though.

 

And if you use it against the right target, i.e.: a Palatine Blades or Night Raptors unit, you debuff them to WS4 and then hit them on 3's with power swords, striking before them. Situational, but useful.

[Farseer Anath'lan]

Alternatively, you can also use it defensively. Shoot it at Firedrakes or the like before charging with Powerfiist terminators and you can save yourself some casualties as they now hit on 4's instead of 3's. Also lets you hit marines with powerfists and axes on 3's.

 

1-2 in a terminator squad is all you'll need.

[Asterlanus]

Hey Guys,

I contacted FW in regards to the +1 to wound and sniper rule for tactical veterans and sniper, FW says you will in fact get the +1 to wound with sniper weapons with Tactical veterans. So you get 3+ to wound with sniper vets in 12" range. Which is pretty mental.

Also has anyone made any concrete lists for Ironwing yet? I keep getting stuck on how I want to run it as I'm not a fan of predators that much or vindicators (sicaran fan here). Wish we got Sicaran tanks in squadrons of 1-2 to get the bonus haha.

So what would you guys run? Kind of need Dreadnoughts + tac vets to take full advantage of the rules backed up by some pretty gnarly tanks. Was thinking of a Delegatus for a 2k list as a Praetor isn't really needed.

In regards to ravenwing for a 2k list im stuck on a delegatus, command squad, two plasma cannon 6 man jet bike units and 2 3 man MM jetbike units and I believe it was 2 units of javelins for 2k.

Overall not sure what to do with DA's are the penalties just for playing the army kind of make me not want anything to do with it and the Wargear kind of sucks and our +1 to hit rule is basically weaker versions of other legions and meh...

How is everyone else handling the DA's and what kind of expectations are you having and lists you're looking at building? Luckily I have IW and starting a AL list that will help me hold off until Book 8 comes with the DA.

[Charlo]

Okay the plus one on sniper vets is ace...