[HH1.0] Dark Angels Tactics

[depthcharge12]

And I'll admit my main opponent plays Mechanicum, so I actually have a regular use for an AP4 bolter. Of all the Legions, Dark Angels may have the most anti-Mechanicum bonuses?

 

300+ point Veteran Squads (including Rhino) just don't excite me. You solution of putting the Praetor in a Spartan is probably what I'll settle on, but I just want there to be a cheaper answer that's also a scoring unit. Sigh, maybe in Book 8.

Fair enough, but vets wounding EVERYTHING on 3+s plus rending and whatever else from the acid bolters is just too good to pass up :D

 

I'm representing in my fluff that they aren't "snipers" but are using extremis-authorized micro acid bolt shells that are smaller versions of the HB ones. Used for extra [Rangdan] xenos purging.

 

Overkill is best kill!

[Agni]

I like the idea of rotor support squad in ironwing. 30 shots which wounds on 4+(12 inches) for 175 points.They are not primary target for your opponent so they will be able to shoot 4 times each. Also we can give the chainswords for 10 points in case of assault on us. Edited November 16, 2016 by Agni

[Charlo]

I like the idea of rotor support squad in ironwing. 30 shots which wounds on 4+(12 inches) for 175 points.They are not primary target for your opponent so they will be able to shoot 4 times each. Also we can give the chainswords for 10 points in case of assault on us.

 

I've considered this too... But you need to be within 12" to turn a S3 weapon into effective S4... Which marines get anyway in bolters. Which you could fury of the legion with a Tactical squad and be better off (especially if the opponent is within 12"!). You mathhammer to about 4 wounds against MEQ.

 

You're better off with Volkite Calivers or Chargers. They also mathhammer to about 4 wounds with Deflag against MEQ, but are far more flexible, as they handle hordes better and either give you a better range for the strength or the ability to assault after with mastery of the blade. They don't benefit from Ironwing Rules, but they're jsut better.

[Agni]

 

 

I like the idea of rotor support squad in ironwing. 30 shots which wounds on 4+(12 inches) for 175 points.They are not primary target for your opponent so they will be able to shoot 4 times each. Also we can give the chainswords for 10 points in case of assault on us.

I've considered this too... But you need to be within 12" to turn a S3 weapon into effective S4... Which marines get anyway in bolters. Which you could fury of the legion with a Tactical squad and be better off (especially if the opponent is within 12"!). You mathhammer to about 4 wounds against MEQ.

 

You're better off with Volkite Calivers or Chargers. They also mathhammer to about 4 wounds with Deflag against MEQ, but are far more flexible, as they handle hordes better and either give you a better range for the strength or the ability to assault after with mastery of the blade. They don't benefit from Ironwing Rules, but they're jsut better.

You cannot fury after disembarking and if you have less than 5 models. While salvo always works. And rule of cool. The are badass =)

[Erren]

I've also looked really hard at Rotor Cannons in Ironwing. If I felt I needed another cheap scoring unit, they might be what I used just for rule of cool. But I think Charlo's right that the better way to think of them is a squad of up to 10 that can move and still half-FotL. That's... not that impressive.

 

Ultimately, I don't see myself buying and assembling 10 Rotor Cannon marines just because the models look cool. There's too many other models out there that also look cool and will actually kill something. If I want to see cool marines like that I'll just go find a BA player.

[Ficinus]

Have people had success with dual Kheres assault cannon dreds in Ironwing? I feel like the tank hunter should allow them to be gun down even heavy armor what with the rending. Mathhammering it, you should be able to get three rending hits, which combined with the guns' flexibility make it sound like a great choice.

[depthcharge12]

Have people had success with dual Kheres assault cannon dreds in Ironwing? I feel like the tank hunter should allow them to be gun down even heavy armor what with the rending. Mathhammering it, you should be able to get three rending hits, which combined with the guns' flexibility make it sound like a great choice.

Did some dice rolls and kept getting only one or two glance/pens on AV13. I'd not bother, take two lascannons instead or split it between a talon. Much better results since you get rerolls on rerolls.

 

I'm just a silly :cuss: so I'm taking 3 cortus dreads with dual ccws...they get fear and tank hunter in cc :devil:

[Charlo]

I think Cortus with a gun and chain fist with grav is the best unless you need anti air.

 

You can run forward, gun stuff and then rip and tear on melee.

 

Twin Lascannon Mortis are amazing tho with tank Hunter. As is the new Deredeo Lascannon.

[caladancid]

Did we ever get the confirmation in writing that Malcadors count as tanks for Ironwing?

[Agni]

Did we ever get the confirmation in writing that Malcadors count as tanks for Ironwing?

https://s15.postimg.org/ttaegigpn/wp_ss_20161122_0004.png

 

https://s16.postimg.org/5osnzr8dh/wp_ss_20161122_0003.png

[depthcharge12]

So I've been doing some practice rolling (level 10 nerd achievement) and two Kheres assault cannons, whether between one or two dreads, is absolutely brutal against armor in an Ironwing list. Tank hunter on rending is absolutely hilarious as you'll generally kill a 3 hp AV vehicle a turn. Perfect against the ubiquitous Sicaran.

 

Th best part is that, after you're done using it to slag vehicles, it doubles as a really good marine killer.

[Jarkaira]

Could some math nerd do an example of how one calculates reroll and rending for mathhammer with excel/numbers?

My head explodes after trying to add another 'IF' after the first 'IF =6 then...' for rending :)

[depthcharge12]

Could some math nerd do an example of how one calculates reroll and rending for mathhammer with excel/numbers?

My head explodes after trying to add another 'IF' after the first 'IF =6 then...' for rending :)

As someone who was originally an Actuarial major before switching to Accounting, I can say Excel is your god. Analysis tool packs and such.

 

But if it is a six, you just start reducing the numerator:

 

6 dice x 5/6 hits; 5 hits x 1/6 vehicle damage; 4 dice left x 1/6 vehicle damage; sum boxes two and three.

 

Praise the holy application of math!

 

Edit: or just put in boxes for each dice and then set parameters for a random number generator <_< but you have to be like, one of the cool kids to do that

Edited December 7, 2016 by depthcharge12

[Charlo]

Yup... If you could take Mortis Talons they would be the absolute go-to in Ironwing for pure dakka.

[depthcharge12]

Yup... If you could take Mortis Talons they would be the absolute go-to in Ironwing for pure dakka.

Yeah, failing that, dual Kheresnaughts in a talon make do.

[caladancid]

I am making a weaponmaster Vet squad right now. Gonna do all with serpentas (for CHOOM and for the sweet sweet Ironwing bonus), but I am not sure what the CC loadout should be. I am thinking of giving power swords to four and the rest with chainswords. The sergeant will have a blade of Caliban. Any other ideas?

[depthcharge12]

I am making a weaponmaster Vet squad right now. Gonna do all with serpentas (for CHOOM and for the sweet sweet Ironwing bonus), but I am not sure what the CC loadout should be. I am thinking of giving power swords to four and the rest with chainswords. The sergeant will have a blade of Caliban. Any other ideas?

I'm running a 10 man vet squad in a Rhino for Ironwing too, but I'm doing a different loadout:

 

2 acid heavy bolters

8 bolters

-> these will be using the sniper tactic to wound everything in the game except Mortarion on a flat 3+. Acid bolters have usually good returns on plowing through 3+ saves.

 

2 power swords

1 Blade of Caliban

-> anything more than that I think is overkill and diminishing returns on points.

 

If you want to absolutely obliterate MEQs, take a Scorpius as it'll fit in quite well to the Ironwing list.

[caladancid]

I like that loadout but it seems like it is a different purpose than the squad I have. With the Ironwing, this squad is going to be close and in CC a fair bit, so I don't think heavy bolters or Sniper is the best idea there.

[rendingon1+]

I am making a weaponmaster Vet squad right now. Gonna do all with serpentas (for CHOOM and for the sweet sweet Ironwing bonus), but I am not sure what the CC loadout should be. I am thinking of giving power swords to four and the rest with chainswords. The sergeant will have a blade of Caliban. Any other ideas?

 Definitely take Stasis Missle launcher. -1I for target means you can wipe them out without payback. (Also thanks to Ironwing blast wounds on 3+ which is nice)

.

[caladancid]

 

I am making a weaponmaster Vet squad right now. Gonna do all with serpentas (for CHOOM and for the sweet sweet Ironwing bonus), but I am not sure what the CC loadout should be. I am thinking of giving power swords to four and the rest with chainswords. The sergeant will have a blade of Caliban. Any other ideas?

 Definitely take Stasis Missle launcher. -1I for target means you can wipe them out without payback. (Also thanks to Ironwing blast wounds on 3+ which is nice)

.

 

 

That is a fantastic idea, thanks!

[depthcharge12]

I like that loadout but it seems like it is a different purpose than the squad I have. With the Ironwing, this squad is going to be close and in CC a fair bit, so I don't think heavy bolters or Sniper is the best idea there.

Heavy bolters have suspensor webs so you can assault while shooting them at full BS :) sniper is icing on the cake. Rhinos are much cheaper to put them in...if you're thinking of assaulting mainly with your vets, there are better options out there but you're of course inclined to do whatever you wish.

 

A less expensive and spammy alternative to the stasis missile launchers are combi grenade launchers that the entire squad can take. Now you can have 1-10 3+ wounding, rending blast shots if you take sniper on them :) plus the benefit of still being able to assault and have -1 Initiative...

[caladancid]

 

I like that loadout but it seems like it is a different purpose than the squad I have. With the Ironwing, this squad is going to be close and in CC a fair bit, so I don't think heavy bolters or Sniper is the best idea there.

Heavy bolters have suspensor webs so you can assault while shooting them at full BS sniper is icing on the cake. Rhinos are much cheaper to put them in...if you're thinking of assaulting mainly with your vets, there are better options out there but you're of course inclined to do whatever you wish.

 

A less expensive and spammy alternative to the stasis missile launchers are combi grenade launchers that the entire squad can take. Now you can have 1-10 3+ wounding, rending blast shots if you take sniper on them plus the benefit of still being able to assault and have -1 Initiative...

 

 

I was thinking that WS 5 Dark Angels hitting other WS 5 units on 3s would be pretty decent, what else would you rather take in that spot? Also, I really do think the serpentas with Ironwing bonuses are unexpectedly nasty.

[Erren]

List of WS5, 3+ armor units:

Palatine Blades

Night Raptors

Gal Vorbak (and Blade-Slaves)

Ashen Circle

 

That's it. Now if you aren't using swords, Weaponmaster could look a little better, but equipping a DA vet squads with swords and +1WS just isn't going to pay off all that often.

[caladancid]

List of WS5, 3+ armor units:

Palatine Blades

Night Raptors

Gal Vorbak (and Blade-Slaves)

Ashen Circle

 

That's it. Now if you aren't using swords, Weaponmaster could look a little better, but equipping a DA vet squads with swords and +1WS just isn't going to pay off all that often.

 

True, but I wasn't worrying too much about 3+ vs 2+, particularly if you aren't going to have more than a couple power swords. I also find Night Raptors both common and miserable.

 

So, the question then is, what assault unit would be better in an Ironwing army. Or any DA army for that matter. Termis?

[depthcharge12]

 

 

List of WS5, 3+ armor units:

Palatine Blades

Night Raptors

Gal Vorbak (and Blade-Slaves)

Ashen Circle

 

That's it. Now if you aren't using swords, Weaponmaster could look a little better, but equipping a DA vet squads with swords and +1WS just isn't going to pay off all that often.

True, but I wasn't worrying too much about 3+ vs 2+, particularly if you aren't going to have more than a couple power swords. I also find Night Raptors both common and miserable.

 

So, the question then is, what assault unit would be better in an Ironwing army. Or any DA army for that matter. Termis?

Also, just hitting with one stasis grenade will drop the enemy -1 WS too so the rule is a bit naff. I'd bet dollars to donuts they'll change the rule later on ;)

 

Terminators do a great job, I've run 10 in a Spartan before it was cool lol. But it's overkill. Honestly, take a 5 man squad with a praetor beat stick and let them distract your enemy. I've learned that mult variable threats (having more than one big evil thing in your list) is a fantastic strategy. Leviathans and cortus dreads are awesome for dealing with those silly WS5 units with AP3 aplenty as those units would regularly eat up Veterans given the chance. Plus they get fear, not to mention tank hunter, which transfers over to close combat too...

 

Again, run whatever you think is fun man :D it'll be better in the long run. But I think the best use of vets in Ironwing is to hop out and use the shooting buffs, and then assault the following turn.

 

Another dirty trick would be to take a explorator proteus with the new plasma repeater support squad. Scout up 12", move 6", disembark 6" and say hello to 10+ twin linked plasma shots.

 

At the moment, I'd refrain from anything too assaulty based until we get our real rules and badass terminator knights that will punk Gal Vorbak lol