[HH1.0] Black Shields Tactica

[Plaguecaster]

Since we are more limited in transports options (with no podsfor our squads how have most people found running footslogger maurader squads? Still coming up with a list but would large Chymeriae squads with apothecaries be good for resilience whilst more fast elements try tying up the enemy so the squads can get in combat, T6 Jetbikes do sound rather nasty and would probably be better than some Vorax Edited August 9, 2016 by teutonicavenger

[Charlo]

Big Chimarie squads with an apothecary are basically the same as big Iron Hands squads, except more resistant to ID as you still get FNP against even a Lascannon.

 

There is deffo some fun to be had there.

[Terminus]

Note that while you can't take drop pods, you can take dreadclaws, which is arguably better for melee units.

 

For example

 

HQ:

Reaver Lord - 200 (most economical I could make it, with digi lasers and halo its 230, oof!)

artificer armor, refractor field, rad grenades, cyber familiar, power fist, combi-melta

 

Elites:

2x Apothecary - artificer armor, power sword - 130

 

Troops:

8x Marauder Squad, 7x shotguns, Chainaxes, Power Axe, Sgt with Power fist & combi-melta - total with transport 318

Dedicated: Dreadclaw

 

9x Marauder Squad, 8x shotguns, Chainaxes, Power Axe, Sgt with Thunder Hammer (aesthetic choice) - total with transport 326

Dedicated: Dreadclaw

 

That'd be my ~1000 point core. Could also use it as an allied detachment.

 

For bigger games, my first thought would be to take a medicae primus and a big ol' squad of terminators, and shove them in a Kharybdis. Then you need ground forces so you don't auto-lose most book missions.

[Brother Aiwass]

Well the logical way would be that he loses that rule when he become a black shield' (like how the reaver loses it when becomes Knight errant) since black shields can't benefit from rows so even if you were able to sneak a row in only he would be affected not the rest of the army (so no unlocking veterans or other stuff as troops as it would invalidate them since they won't be black shields so can't be taken since you can't mix and match different armies in BS like Shattered legions) though isn't he an agent of the Emperor so he can't be your primary HQ anyway or something since he counts as an ally so his row won't affect anything even if taken as WE

 

 He can be taken as a warlord besides being an agent of the Emprah as stated in his own rules.

Considering the rule talks about "Blackshield forces" (i.e. your whole army) not being able to take Rites of War, I would take that as pretty unequivocal and not try to wrangle around it. The whole point is that these armies fight in "less regimented but arguably far more flexible manner than a regular Space Marine Legion force."

 

He is an Agent of the Emperor, but those rules are optional and only used if you're using him in a regular Legion army.

 

edit: grammar

Yeah, I guess... Anyway, I don't see any flexibility in being restricted to non-flexible choices, but again, I guess you're right.

[Dono1979]

Note that while you can't take drop pods, you can take dreadclaws, which is arguably better for melee units.

 

For example

 

HQ:

Reaver Lord - 200 (most economical I could make it, with digi lasers and halo its 230, oof!)

artificer armor, refractor field, rad grenades, cyber familiar, power fist, combi-melta

 

Elites:

2x Apothecary - artificer armor, power sword - 130

 

Troops:

8x Marauder Squad, 7x shotguns, Chainaxes, Power Axe, Sgt with Power fist & combi-melta - total with transport 318

Dedicated: Dreadclaw

 

9x Marauder Squad, 8x shotguns, Chainaxes, Power Axe, Sgt with Thunder Hammer (aesthetic choice) - total with transport 326

Dedicated: Dreadclaw

 

That'd be my ~1000 point core. Could also use it as an allied detachment.

 

For bigger games, my first thought would be to take a medicae primus and a big ol' squad of terminators, and shove them in a Kharybdis. Then you need ground forces so you don't auto-lose most book missions.

 

How do you make them Dedicated? Or did I just completely over look that option in the Marauder entry :-(

[Terminus]

You did. They get Rhinos, Dreadclaws, and Proteus Raiders as dedicated options.

 

Anyway, everyone's super hard up on Chymaera (for good reason, S6 Ap4 on grunts, S10 Ap2 on sgts, like inductii, T5 and FNP on defense), but I've also been looking at the Outlanders. The perks are not as obvious, but free deep strike for half your models and rad grenades on all the characters could be interesting. It also unlocks the Nemean Reaver, who is an absolute beast.  I see it playing like a version of Imperial Fist Hammerfall Assault, with a cheaper Sigismund and a better basic unit.

 

Something like this:

 

HQ: Nemean Reaver - 180
HQ: Damocles Command Rhino - 100
Elite: 5x Terminators with combi-plasmas, powerfists/1chainfist - 240
Elite: 5x Terminators with combi-plasmas, powerfists/1chainfist - 240
Elite: 10x Veterans - Sgt with power fist/artificer/rad grenades, 2x axes, 2x meltaguns, 3x combi-meltas - 265 (??)
Elite: 3x Apothecaries in artificer armor - 165
Troops: 8x Marauders with shotguns, chainaxes, power axe, nuncio Vox, Sgt with powerfist and rad grenades - 213
Troops: 9x Marauders with shotguns, chainaxes, power axe, nuncio Vox, Sgt with powerfist and rad grenades - 226
Troops: 5x Tactical Support Squad with meltas ~ 170
Fast Attack: Dreadclaw - 115

Fast Attack: Dreadclaw - 115
Heavy Support: Deredeo with Aiolos or Fire Raptor ~220
Heavy Support: Whirlwind - 115
Heavy Support: Laser Destroyer with dozer - 135

~2500

 

Reaver, 2 of the Apothecaries and the Marauders take the Dreadclaws (with one arriving first turn and the other going into reserves), while the Terminators, Veterans and Support squad all deep strike.  With the Damocles reserves are more reliable, and it and the two nuncio voxes give me three bubbles of no-scatter deep strike. Kind of standard generic heavy support load-out for me just to cover all the bases. The Marauders wound other marines on 2+ due to chainaxes and rad grenades, Reaver handles any big bads with his Eternal Warrior. Veterans (with 3rd Apothecary) can take WS5, Sniper or Machine Killers as needed (note machine killers works in melee too, so that's S6 power axes and S9 power fist against vehicles).  The rest is self-explanatory.

 

The only thing I'm not quite sure on is how many units with Legiones Astartes I technically have in this list, and whether I round up or down for half.  Do the Apothecaries count as a separate unit even though they are joined and become part of other units?  The deep strike ability is conferred "before the game", while Apothecaries are assigned "during deployment", which leads me to believe they do count towards the total of "units without a dedicated transport", which gives me 8 units and thus 4 free deep strikes.  If they didn't count total leaving me with 7 units without a dedicated transport, would it still give me 4 deep strikes?

Edited August 9, 2016 by Terminus

[Plaguecaster]

You did. They get Rhinos, Dreadclaws, and Proteus Raiders as dedicated options.

 

Anyway, everyone's super hard up on Chymaera (for good reason, S6 Ap4 on grunts, S10 Ap2 on sgts, like inductii, T5 and FNP on defense), but I've also been looking at the Outlanders. The perks are not as obvious, but free deep strike for half your models and rad grenades on all the characters could be interesting. It also unlocks the Nemean Reaver, who is an absolute beast. I see it playing like a version of Imperial Fist Hammerfall Assault, with a cheaper Sigismund and a better basic unit.

Damn I never realised that which is funny :D makes dread laws that much more better. Outlander is a cool idea especially since you get free deep strike just the risks kinda suck plus I'm dead set on Chymeriae for fluff reasons Edited August 9, 2016 by teutonicavenger

[Terminus]

Now that I fleshed out the list above, what deep strike risks do you foresee? I have three no scatter bubbles, and most of the units deep striking are small, so mishaps shouldn't be a huge concern.  The only one I have reservations about is that Veteran unit, it's a point and volume heavy with the Apothecary attached, making it both difficult to land and a juicier target.  If I dumped them for another squad of Terminators with combi-meltas, I'd have 80 points left to put into a Javelin.

 

I'd honestly be more concerned about having to test with my remaining units for Shadow of Oblivion once I've lost 4 of them, even with Ld9 or 10 failing that test and just losing the unit outright is pretty harsh.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Terminus

[Plaguecaster]

I got no problems with the deep strike or your list it looks quite solid it's just the Shadow of Oblivion rule which really puts me off outlanders especially since leadership is more important in 30k than 40k where mostly everything has fearless or something plus I'm too much of a Nurgle fan so love T5 armies :D Edited August 9, 2016 by teutonicavenger

[Plaguecaster]

Speaking of lists I wonder if someone can help me as I Have come up with a 2.5k Chymeriae list but need help this is what I got so far

Forgelord 135pts

Cyber Familiar, rad grenades, Boarding Shield, Power Axe

Elites

Apothecarion Detachment 210pts

3 apothecaries with Artificier Armour, Augury Scanners, power swords

 

Cortus Contemptor dreadnought 165pts

Kheres assault cannon, Graviton gun

 

Cortus Contemptor 165

Kheres assault cannon, Graviton gun

 

Troops

13 Marauders 298pts

Second Bolt Pistols, 2 heavy Flamers Chief with thunder hammer, combi- flamer,

 

13 Marauders 298pts

Second Bolt Pistols, 2 heavy Flamers Chief with thunder hammer, combi- flamer,

 

13 Siege Breachers 320

Legio Vexilla, 2 meltaguns, sergeant with Artificier armour and thunder hammer

 

Heavy support

Deredeo Dreadnought 270

Aiolos Missile Launcher, Arachnus Lascannon, twin linked heavy flamer

 

Deredeo Dreadnought 270

Aiolos Missile Launcher, Arachnus Lascannon, twin linked heavy flamer

 

I have roughly 390ts left over but can't think of what to add I am looking for a mainly infantry force but realise that since it is mostly foot slogging backed up by dreads for fire support that I cant actually get to the enemy quickly so will be forced to endure their firepower if they are more shooting based though will be more resilient with the bonus T. Any suggestions I could drop the 2 Cortus for something else but looking to keep the rest including the Forgelord as it more of a fluff choice. I am trying to have them as a heavily corrupted/ mutated Word Bearers force that escaped Calth loyal to chaos but harbour hate towards Lorgar for leaving them to die so striking out on their own (still brainstorming ideas on how they escape)

Edited August 9, 2016 by teutonicavenger

[Charlo]

I like it thematically, but without any kind of transport you will suffer pretty harshly, T5 only goes so far. To be "that guy" a Typhon will ruin your day obviously, but the Deredeo's should get a nice shot or two in.

 

A Sicaran Venator may be a good investment for sure in this sort of list - shut down those heavies!

 

The breachers are totally out of place too, the most you're going to get out of them is pumping two melta shots into something that comes into your deployment zone and in which case Grav guns would be better I think.

 

===

 

As for Outlanders, I'm super into them right now. A really good mix of fun and strong rules. The drawbacks are harsh but they work nicely. Recon Squads have a really cool little place in them too - you can give them cloaks, a vox and scout armour to get some forward position no-scatter bubbles.

 

Xeno Deathlocks are more or less trash, but taking two on a unit is #FUN so why not eh? Plus putting Necron rifles on marines would look awesome.

 

I think outlanders would benefit greatly from a really nasty big LoW tank or something. Really distract the enemy from your guys dropping in. A Stormsword is my personal favorite.

 

OH and they totally rock ZM with all of the deep strike.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Charlo

[Brother Aiwass]

Speaking of Outlanders, I'm still tunning a 2k Nemean list, here's what I have at the moment.

 

HQ

Nemean Reaver

Vigilator w/ MB & refractor field

 

ELITE

Mortis w/ Dual Kheres & havoc

 

TROOPS

Marauder Alpha +10 men, 2x PW, rad grenades, MB, heavy chainsword

Assault Bravo 2x PW, rad grenades, MB, heavy chainsword

Recon Charlie w/ vox, recon armor, camaleonine, MB

 

FAST

Seeker Delta +4 men w/ vox, rad-grenades

Javelin w/ 2x HK & MM

Stormeagle

 

HEAVY

Leaviathan w/ CML, bombard, phosphex & volkite

 

That's 1985. Ground units will be both dreads, Recon Charlie & Seeker Delta with attached Vigilator to give them scout. Marauder Alpha & Nemean are going to ride the Eagle and Assault Bravo can either DS or deploy in the field if conditions apply while the Javelin either DS or outflank.

 

However, I'm toying with a (yet bo be decided WoW) Endryd Haar list, also at 2k points (rough list).

 

Haar

Kheres Mortis w/ havoc

Veteran full sqd w/ HB & sniper

Marauder 10 men w/ extra pistols, MB

Assault 10 men w/ PWs, MB

Seeker full sqd bare bones

Recon sqd w/ recon armor & MB

Javelin w/ 2 HK & MM

Stormeagle

 

About 2000~

 

Haar and the marauders in the Eagle, assault, seeker and vets gain Scout. The WoW I'm undecided between Chymeriae option 3 or Death Seekers (because sadly, Orphans of War ban me to take Haar). Any input brothers?

[Terminus]

Since you asked... I dislike pretty much everything about that first list except the Nemean Reaver. You made an outlander list that doesn't really take advantage of outlanders, took probably the least reliable assault transport you could find for your biggest and most expensive unit, the Leviathan load-out is outrageous and its walking, the Recon unit is a 155-point nuncio vox that otherwise does nothing, and even the rad grenades on the Seekers I find an annoying waste of 10 points. The second pretty much repeats all those issues

[Brother Aiwass]

While I can see why you don't like the outlanders list, I fail to see how I repeat the same issues besides the Eagle and the Levy? 3 scouting units (one with jump pack) with fleet and rage are bad? 45 bodies on the table and a flier (FYI there is zero fliers in my group besides a couple tau piranhas) and little to none AA.

[Terminus]

Sorry about that, as you can see from the lack of a period on that last sentence, I was typing on my phone and accidentally hit submit. Then I got distracted by work and never got around to coming back to it.

 

While stacking option 3 with scout and assault marines is a good idea, you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot (no pun intended), by also diversifying into seekers and marksmen veterans (who are now BS4 and BS3 respectively).  The -1BS drawback is significant enough that I would only use option 3 with a full-melee focused army featuring multiple assault squads and marauder units, and rely purely on vehicles for your ranged fire support.

[Plaguecaster]

The Breachers in my list are more a unit I'm taking just because I love breachers for rule of cool over any other reason, would a Kharibdys pod be worth taking then which I could use to transport the breachers with attached apothecary and forge lord closer where they can do more damage???? Kinda the whole reason I wanted to play heresy was since I saw how cool breachers were :D Edited August 9, 2016 by teutonicavenger

[Terminus]

If you're talking S5/T5 breachers, that's cool but they get -2" to charges, so using a big expensive assault transport and combat HQs with them seems at cross purposes. Big squads also got more expensive with the new book.

 

You could run 10-man squads in Proteus Raiders (which marauders can also take), and use Haar to hand out scout so you start 12" up the board with three of them. Then just create a wall of breacher shields and land raider hulls in the middle of the board.  Death Seekers would be a good choice for ignoring shooting casualties and a 6+ FNP since you can't fit Apothecaries in there with them.

[Plaguecaster]

Hmmm thanks Terminus (Love your avatar I just realised what it's from :D ) I know it probably sounds dumb and rather unwise but I am trying not to include any sort of tank in my force (even though it's a huge disadvantage to myself) mainly for fluff reasons as I'm a bit of an idiot when it comes to stuff like that :D

Haar does sound interesting can you only take a specific wrought by war if you take him like the reaver or can it be any one????

Edited August 10, 2016 by teutonicavenger

[Terminus]

He has his own Legiones Astartes rule, so it seems like he can go with anyone except Orphans of War, who cannot include Agents.

[Brother Aiwass]

I'm considering a bike unit to forward vox casters for DSing Outlanders, if I don't miss anything the only way to do this is using a consul. Which one would be better? Forgelord or Siege Breaker?

 

Alternatively a MoS with jump pack maybe? Meaning that I'll need to deploy the assault squad on the table and rush to the desired DZ.

[Terminus]

Are you planning on upgrading their weapons? Siege Breaker's tank Hunter would work well with either meltas or plasma as well as any powerfists. ForgeLord is for close combat units with rad grenades. Bikes are more a gun platform than melee, IMO.

[Brother Aiwass]

Didn't SB bonus only apply to infantry? I was thinking of plasma bikes.

[Terminus]

It applies to any unit he joins, but you're on the right track because I just glanced at it and it only boosts heavy weapon attacks. So scratch that.

 

Since your goal is to get a nuncio vox up there for deep strikes, it would seem the jump pack master of signal is your only route.

[Brother Aiwass]

Noted on the MoS.

 

Not to be nitpicking on the SB but...

 

"The Siege Breaker has the Tank Hunters and Wrecker special rules applied
to all of their own attacks, and also confers these rules to the heavy weapon shooting attacks of any
Infantry unit they join."

[Caillum]

Forge Lord with power axe, rad grenades & nuncio-vox joining 9 power axe Outriders is a good option. That will get you 18 S5 AP2 attacks and another 15 normal attacks, plus HoW. Give the Forge Lord a conversion beamer for Relentless lols or just stick with the extra S8 AP2 attack.