TheCelticRaven Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Do Jump Infantry count as infantry for the purposes of having to start the game inside transports? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319781-armoured-spearhead-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Almost assuredly. It really means either having to take an ceastus (the flying ram transport thingy) or not taking them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319781-armoured-spearhead-question/#findComment-4321031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCelticRaven Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 Almost assuredly. It really means either having to take an ceastus (the flying ram transport thingy) or not taking them. i thought that because they are a different unit type in the BRB then they would be treated as not infantry Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319781-armoured-spearhead-question/#findComment-4328642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 I would argue no, they don't count as infantry for the specific reason you just mentioned. Jump infantry are just as separate from infantry as bikes or MCs are. Just having the word "infantry" in their name doesn't mean they are infantry rules wise. That being said, the HH rules are known for some poorly written rules where they specify something about infantry and don't elaborate on whether that includes units like artillery. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319781-armoured-spearhead-question/#findComment-4328732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 I would argue no, they don't count as infantry for the specific reason you just mentioned. Jump infantry are just as separate from infantry as bikes or MCs are. Just having the word "infantry" in their name doesn't mean they are infantry rules wise. As written unfortunately the game breaks down. According to 7th edition Jump X must follow the rules for Jump units and for X units (in this case X is Infantry). So a unit classified as jump infantry must at the same time have a transport and be deployed in it and cannot be in a vehicle. The most sensible house rule is to count each combination of Jump and another unit type as a type separate from all other unit types. And to fiat whatever happens in the cases where Jump and X cause a contradiction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319781-armoured-spearhead-question/#findComment-4331017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 This is correct. However, it is also the reason why going by RAW, Raven Guard Jump Infantry gain infiltrate, but I've met very few who are willing to sacrifice that fairly nonsensical argument in favour of a pure RAW game. It is worth noting as well that neither Storm Eagles (or their derivatives), nor Caestus can carry Jump Infantry. That is limited purely to Thunderhawks, IIRC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319781-armoured-spearhead-question/#findComment-4331102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 And Stormravens - in 40K at least I don't think the flying bricks showed up in HH yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319781-armoured-spearhead-question/#findComment-4331105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 The Storm Eagle being able to carry jump is from a REALLY old email that someone got back from the FW Team. Safe to say its defunct as of now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319781-armoured-spearhead-question/#findComment-4331126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeychunks Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I normally save this image for /tg/... Short answer, you are Infantry and Jump is simply a prefix. You are still bound by all the same rules and restrictions that affect 'plain' infantry. http://imgur.com/Ui5ecMk Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319781-armoured-spearhead-question/#findComment-4350178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 If a unit follows the rules for jump unit and infantry units (which the quote explicitly states, the game breaks down, because anything that follows the jump rules cannot embark and anything that follows the infantry rules can. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319781-armoured-spearhead-question/#findComment-4350184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeychunks Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I'd just take that to mean that you can't take Jump Infantry under the Rite then*. We certainly have precedent for that; Raven Guard and Blood Angels explicitly note that they restrict the Rites available to the army. Iron Hands won't be making an Angel's Wrath any time soon. Seems like the reasonable stance would be that if you cannot find a place to stow them, the Jump Infantry aren't coming along for the ride. It's also not particularly hard to justify fluffwise- The Rite represents an armoured spearhead with a ridiculous amount of mechanised protection. Seems likely that it's designed for breaching something hard, and Jump Infantry aren't going to be wasted in a grinder just because the commander couldn't fit them in a Rhino. *If we are taking the FAQ as out-of-date. Can Caestus carry them? Otherwise no transports, means no Jump Infantry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319781-armoured-spearhead-question/#findComment-4350197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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