Carcharodons novel by Robbie McNiven

[Kelborn]

Please don't be mad at me for thread o mancy but RobMac uploaded a free extract from Red Tithe while it is up for pre purchase.

 

https://robbiemacniven.wordpress.com/2016/12/08/carcharodons-red-tithe-free-extract/

 

Kind of liking it. It seems that it's about a 14 year old boy who is on the one hand a prisoner and in the other a witch.

 

Second major character is a female member of the Adeptus Arbites, stationed in the same prison as the boy sits in. She is allowed to engage an approaching freighter which seems to have some troubles with its cargo (other prisoners).

 

Last but not least, the Charcharodons main character, Bail Sharr, newly appointed company master of the 3rd. After having fought Nids previously, they are now searching for someone within this prison, before the Murderers of the Night arrive as well.

 

Couple of references to the exiled RG:

They wear exile markings (or did I get something wrong and these markings are normally called exile markings?), their chief librarian bears the title of the Pale Nomad. Ancient armor and weaponry.

Though it's not a Wraight or ADB (at least for now ;)) it looks pretty good and I'm curious for more of them.

 

Rob, you got my attention. ;)

[helterskelter]

That looks good

[Sandlemad]

Looking good. Seems well fleshed out, the newly minted company master has potential as a good first POV character for the chapter. I like the the terminology used for the chapter's founders: the Wandering Ancestors, the Forgotten One and so on. It's good that it's clearly shown as cloaked in 10k years of legend rather than out and out saying 'this many Raven Guard exiles at this time'.

 

The dreadnoughts being called 'Greats' is a nice touch, fittingly reverent, and having them in white armour is... close to too much sharkiness but we'll see.

[Augustus]

Yeah, I'll be picking this up for sure. I love me some space sharks :D

[deathspectersgt7]

Can't wait !!!

[HeritorA]

1) Reads good - much improved comparing to Legacy of Russ.

2) The dreadnoughts being called 'Greats' is a nice touch - old grandpas ;)

3) Don't liked it at all - Second major character is a female member of the Adeptus Arbites.

4) Charcharodons shown as they should be shown.

5) Prose much improved.

Well done Robbie - my interest piqued ;)

[helterskelter]

Really shouldn't admit you don't like diversity in characters dude :p

[Reldn]

Yep, after reading the free extract, this book is definitely in my "must-get" list.

 

Charcharodons, Arbites, and Night Lords. Oh my!

[The_son_of_Dorn]

With regards to their gene seed. I thought they were creating stuff to suggest it's a raven guard/war hounds loyalist miss match? That being part of the reason they get sent to the edges of the galaxy. Outa sight outa mind kinda thing.

[Biscuittzz]

With regards to their gene seed. I thought they were creating stuff to suggest it's a raven guard/war hounds loyalist miss match? That being part of the reason they get sent to the edges of the galaxy. Outa sight outa mind kinda thing.

 

Almost certain that the majority consensus is that it's a Raven guard/Night Lords mix. That's the first time I've heard of the war hounds mentioned.

[Kelborn]

I just read that war hounds theory on 4chan today. Don't find it to be likely. Rather prefer the RG and / or NL variant.

[bluntblade]

What's so bad about a lead character being a woman? Apart from anything else, I figure that having two factions as inhuman as Night Lords and Carcharodons makes it very desirable to add a mortal POV.

 

I prefer to think any loyal War Hounds or World Eaters would distance themselves from Angron's tendency towards slaughter, and make a big thing of honour.

[caladancid]

1) Reads good - much improved comparing to Legacy of Russ.

2) The dreadnoughts being called 'Greats' is a nice touch - old grandpas

3) Don't liked it at all - Second major character is a female member of the Adeptus Arbites.

4) Charcharodons shown as they should be shown.

5) Prose much improved.

Well done Robbie - my interest piqued

 

Clearly you have never read the Shira Calpurnia stories. Your loss, they are some of the most badass 40k novels written.

 

The preview is great. I had high hopes, and it looks to me like Robbie Mac is hitting it out of the park. Can't wait.

[Biscuittzz]

Read the extract and will definitely be getting this. The prose seems, I dunno, refreshing compared to recent publications and flows quite well, compared to a lot were it's an effort to get through certain parts.

 

While I've nothing against female leads, the plot line of 'female character must prove herself to male counterparts and always does come the conclusion' is quite old. Granted this is a mirror of reality in today's world but that doesn't mean that it always has to be the one arc that nearly every female storyline follows, in my opinion.

 

Lastly, one thing caught my eye which is quite minute and nobody will care about  :

 

"the chlorine tang of ozone warring with the scents of bolter oils and preservation unguents"

 

With a background in chemistry, this make no sense. The only thing that has a chlorine tang are chlorides or chlorine containing compounds. Ozone is nowhere near similar to chlorine. Pedantic I know, but it just popped out to me. 

[DarkChaplain]

I honestly don't see how that mirrors today's world at all. Or rather, how that "proving oneself to another" is somehow miraculously a female problem. You want to get ahead in your job? Prove yourself to your superiors and co-workers, it doesn't matter what gender they, or you are. If anything, in a lot of situations men are being tested pretty harshly.

 

You'll always have to prove your value to someone in life. It comes with respect, proper respect, being earned, rather than coming in a gift basket with a little red ribbon on it.

[Biscuittzz]

Meh it's an opinion that's all, I see it a lot in different parts of society. There are particular cases of positive discrimination where I'm from rearing it's head (Ireland, there have been calls for a minimum quota of female elected representatives regardless of qualification to name one off the top of my head) However, I never said it was only a female problem. Lastly IMO it's a popular trend to follow in books and movies. I'll leave it at that as it's getting quite off-topic.

 

OT, this part:

 

"the first to have gone into the void, at the behest of the Forgotten One."

 

Is this alluding to Corax or Arkhas Fal? Corax is the one who sent them so I'm going with him.

[helterskelter]

She's proving herself to more experienced female associates as well, there was a description of a particularly grizzled female squad leader, so it's not total trope, it's young rookie proving themselves but in no way does gender enter into it as far as I'm concerned

[Kelborn]

Why are we even discussing it?

 

Doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman or a freakin AdMec member.

 

It's a good counterpart to the brutal, monstrous Astartes we will have in this book. Depending on the fate of that little boy, we might have an Octavia/ Septimus team in between the merciless Carcharodons and the vicious Night Lords.

 

Nowadays, every WH novel needs a mortal pov. Think back to McNeils UM books. Nearly 100% Astartes as main characters with mortals just as sidekicks.

 

I may be wrong but I think that ADB did a great job in introducing mortals as main characters. And because of that, I don't want to miss them.

 

Wrath of Iron without the mortal pov (and yes, there is a female as well) would lack the ability to represent the cold efficiency and the nearly soulless characteristics.

[Biscuittzz]

Look , it was just a throwaway comment from me about where I felt a lot of female lead arcs where going nowadays. It was my opinion. I can edit it out if it's to disturb better discussion of what is most likely to be an excellent novel, going by the extract anyway.

 

Back to the extract, Forgotten One  has to be Corax right?

[Kelborn]

Didn't adress you. :)

Just those after your statement.

[helterskelter]

Forgotten one could be anyone at this point, Corax sent far too many elements away which became different things.

For all we know it could be kheron ophion.

I don't want to set off anyones night lords trigger again so take the last comment as throwaway, we just have to wait til we have novel in hand and take what tidbits rob will feed us

[Kelborn]

You mean

Carcharodons = the surviving NL who were stationed in the Nostramo sector?

Interesting theory

[helterskelter]

You mean

Carcharodons = the surviving NL who were stationed in the Nostramo sector?

Interesting theory

More an amalgamation of both fleets, maybe they battered the snot out of each other, I don't think ophion made it out with 1/5 to nostramo, but still took a chunk with him, we also know the ambushing fleet was sizeable enough to deal damage.

Mutual destruction, leading to join us or die, leading to unusual circumstances ie well you can't wear that colour else you'll get us all killed, ophion needing to lead elements etc etc.

It's very loose, based on mainly cultural amalgamation/appearances/tactics, both legions are pale with dark eyes, NL sharpen their teeth, tactics are a mix of rg and NL, such as appearing on the sneaky but also having a fearsome visage.

That's how I see it anyway, I know it upsets/angers a few carchadaron players, and I don't mind being proven wrong in the slightest, but robmacs cheeky comment earlier in the thread made me think there's more to them than just predation fleet

[Kelborn]

Sounds plausible.

Has some similar thoughts back when Rob said its more complicated. ;)

[RobMac]

Not to overegg the discussion about a female mortal lead, but;

 

You're right in saying "rookie female cop struggles to prove herself to superiors" is a bit of a trope, but what with this being a novel about Carcharodons and Night Lords I don't think it's spoilers to say this won't have a chipper, cop-rescues-kitten-from-burning-building ending. On that topic, it may interest people to know that Rannick was originally written as a male character. With the whole novel finished I decided to switch her to female, and the only changes made were to the pronouns, so none of it plot or characterisation-wise was written with "female character" in mind. I hope the change doesn't reek of poorly attempted tokenism, but I wanted to help differentiate her and pay homage to some great past characters, like the aforementioned Calpurnia or Judge Anderson (the level of influence Dredd/2000AD had on the creation and the development of the Adeptus Arbites still staggers me). 

 

Anyway, I'm really glad people have like what they've read so far!

Edited December 10, 2016 by RobMac