The Blood Revenants (WIP): 1k list help

[Arkangilos]

It depends how they handle the mutations. If they augment it to make them look like they weren't mutations but instead purposefully added, it would raise some eyebrows,but they could skirt by. Maybe have some fake ones growIng in a vat where they can say, "no, see, we grow them!"

 

But personally I would avoid it unless they were 21st founding.

 

... Or I mean, instead of mutations they could literally be vat grown, and it is a way of them coping with the loss of Sanguinius?

 

So a hero of the chapter might be rewarded with the wings? They are basically real, but are genetically grown, rather than mutated.

 

Also, with your background fluff, I would make it literally right after the split, that way it could still be considered part of the second founding and it would make more sense.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Arkangilos

[Spagunk]

Ultimately it is your story so any backstory you create is your thing.

 

However I will point out that no one in the current 40k canon really knows how to manipulate or genetically enhance people short of Fabius Bile or the Dark Eldar Haemonculai . And you DEFINITELY don't want their help.

[Arkangilos]

That's not true at all. People get genetically enhanced all the time. Fabius is the only one that can make a space marine out of a normal person, or super enhance a space marine. Or make a fake primarch. He isn't the only capable one, he's just the only one that does it like he does.

 

Cherubs are enhanced genetically.

 

Servitors are often enhanced genetically.

 

Inquisitors have been and can be enhanced. (Hector Rex is an example).

Edited April 29, 2016 by Arkangilos

[Spagunk]

That's not true at all. People get genetically enhanced all the time. Fabius is the only one that can make a space marine out of a normal person, or super enhance a space marine. Or make a fake primarch. He isn't the only capable one, he's just the only one that does it like he does.

 

Cherubs are enhanced genetically.

 

Servitors are often enhanced genetically.

 

Inquisitors have been and can be enhanced. (Hector Rex is an example).

 

 

Yes and no. The process is a cybernetic body modification but no one understands how it works. they just "press buttan, get servitor". I would imagine it more akin to cybernetic implants rather than genetic modification from what I understand.

 

The process of creating genetic modifications died with the emperor. Anything that exists now is more along the lines of following an IKEA instruction book and preying that you pushed the right sequence of buttons that appeases the machine god.

[Arkangilos]

The inquisitor was genetically enhanced, organs are vat grown, etc.

 

Here is at least one example:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Hector_Rex

 

At the very least, the wings can be vat grown like other organs and attached in the same way as organic limbs (which we know Space Marines can do).

 

Don't suppose you can cite where Fabius is the only one?

 

Also, I agree that they can't come up with new genetic enhancements, but there is nothing saying there aren't already schematics for these.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Arkangilos

[Damon Nightman]

Thanks for all the help/info guys! I think I'm just going to drop the wing thing, it seems a little too much. Maybe while lost in the warp it randomly happened to a few, but they are long gone by now, but I'll probably drop it all together.

 

Been really pondering the name and am still thinking Angels of Redwmption is the best I have so far...

 

Still leaning towards the chapter badge of a skull with blood drop on the head since I think under the eye would be harder to make look right. Maybe add wings to the skull to make it more Angely?

[Graymane]

Forgive the input of an old wolf here!

 

I love the idea, story line etc, but i thought you might like to know Angels of Retribution already exist.

 

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Angels_of_Retribution

 

Not sure how much of a spanner that throws in your works.

 

As a stop gap suggestion what about Angels of Desolation, Angels Desolate, The Desolate Angels. Something like that?

 

Desolate or Desolation works on 2 levels:

 

1 - Desolate meaning empty or bereft of life  E.G. nothing left alive once they have been there.

2 - Feeling or showing great unhappiness or loneliness E.G. having been turned away by their brothers.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Good luck and i look forward to seeing your work.

 

Cheers,

 

Graymane.

[Damon Nightman]

Appreciate the feedback! Really like the desolate idea! I did see that angels of retribution already exist but have died out, so I felt kinda okay stealing it. Ideally I want an "original" name though. I really like angels revenant but that is a still existing chapter

 

I think he desolate name goes better with my

proposed chapter badge.

 

I'm gonna think about desolate names while at work, thanks again!

 

Arkangilos, when exactly did the split happen? And by split, do you mean BA and FT splitting?

Edited April 29, 2016 by Brother Lemartes

[Arkangilos]

Yeah, I mean literally the split for the second founding when the legions were broken up. So it happened during the second founding, as opposed to after. The second founding probably took a while as reorginations happened.

[Damon Nightman]

Cool, I will look into that. Thanks for the help!

[Damon Nightman]

Would it be alright to have my chapter name as the daemonbanes, like the name of the BA 5th company (don't have codex around to check if that's right)?

 

Maybe the group that was sent out originally was from the company of BA named that and they kept the name when they formed their own chapter? Especially fitting since they were in the warp fighting demons for awhile.

[Arkangilos]

I don't know if I'd make that an official name for them. They can call themselves that, sure.

 

Keep in mind though, only the High Lords can make chapters. They can't just decide to become a chapter and then it happens. That is why I think you should have it during the second founding, because then sections from all over the legion could have been mixed together to go on this campaign, and then the HLoT can say, "well, there is enough for a chapter."

[Xenith]

Maybe the captain of the 5th company had earned the nickname "Daemonbane" through some suitably heroic act, and the company took on his moniker.

 

The Lords of Terra commissioned a new BA successor, and selected this captain to be the new commander, having shown exceptional purity of spirit in combating the daemon. The new chapter has an official designation (The Desolation Angels), but are known informally to all those of the Sanguine bloodline as 'The Daemonbane's'.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Xenith

[Damon Nightman]

So you think that they should have been their own chapter before being lost in the warp? Not after like I was suggesting?

 

Would the HLoT name the chapter?

 

Do you think the name isn't a good idea because it's already a company's name? Or a different reason?

 

Edit: this reply was for Arkangilos, didn't see your post yet Xenith.

 

 

Really like that idea Xenith. So would the daemonbanes name have been around before they went into the warp in this scenario? And then the captain named the daemon bane was sent out on the tsk force where they were lost in the warp?

Edited April 29, 2016 by Brother Lemartes

[Xenith]

Really like that idea Xenith. So would the daemonbanes name have been around before they went into the warp in this scenario? And then the captain named the daemon bane was sent out on the tsk force where they were lost in the warp?

 

No idea. I'm just making it up as I go along!

 

My Idea was for a later founding. If you want them as a second founding, at the end of the heresy, then maybe the captain earned the name on Signus?

 

In my gut, I don't think many BA would be taking prideful names from the siege.

 

Maybe instead of staying with the chapter to recover, the captain took his marines along for the scouring, fighting alongside the imperial fists. Maybe the Word Bearers led them into a trap and set a bunch of daemons on them, and that's where they got their name.

 

These Blood Angels returned to Baal/Terra after the scouring to find that the chapter had divided in their absence, with the new Blood Angels Chapter in residence in the Monastery. There cannot be two Blood Angels Chapters, so they are sent away by Raldoron/Azkellon, their hearts and minds are broken, first having lost their Primarch, and then their homeworld.  They settle on a new planet, as close an approximation to Baal as possible, their captain grimly naming the world "Desolation", as that is what fills their hearts.

[Damon Nightman]

Did the blood Angels not take part in the scouring? Which I need to read up on.

 

If not I could say this task force went out during it and were trapped in the warp after chasing down some word bearers and popped out thousands of years later. So they never even were aware of the second founding or what exactly happened. They book it to Baal to check and see what's up now that they have returned and find the BA at full strength.

 

The BA are willing to take them in, but the HLoT do not trust them and make them form their own chapter and sent on crusade hopefully to their doom. But instead they destroy the enemies of the emperor with extreme prejudice and the HLoT recognize this and trust them a little more now, but still a skeptical.

 

Does this work?

[Arkangilos]

Yeah, I think they should have been a brand new chapter literally right before getting lost. The BA did participate as far as I am aware. I don't remember if the second founding was after it or before it though. I think maybe they happened at the same time?

 

But if you want them to be a chapter after they lost, you could make it work too. Maybe they left before the split, but got back after it, and while both chapters were willing to take them in (like you said), the HLoT didn't want that many Astartes to be reintegrated. (Lol, I read hastily, this is basically exactly what you said, lol)

 

I would make it centuries, though. Not thousands of years, personally.

 

Also, by this point most of the BA have experienced fighting daemons because of Signus Prime, so the nane could be whenever you want

Edited April 29, 2016 by Arkangilos

[Damon Nightman]

Any particular reason you would do centuries instead of a couple thousand years?

 

I was thinking to them in the warp it only felt like a century, but when they pop out, it would be much longer in real time. But really that's a small detail that doesn't make much difference if it's centuries or longer really in the grand scheme of things.

 

 

Would the name of "The revenant" be okay for w name or " the revenants" or even "revenant angles"? I like Angels revenant before I noticed it was another chapter, so would any of those small changes work? Well I guess I could use any of those names regardless, but does anyone have any preferences between:

 

The Revenant

THe Revenants ( not sure if plural is more correct or sounds better?)

The Revenant Angels ( similar to the other chapter, but different. Does it even make sense this way?)

This way I can avoid working in daemonbane

 

 

I really like the Revenant and I think it fits with them returning from the warp...

Edited April 29, 2016 by Brother Lemartes

[Arkangilos]

Well I guess a couple thousand years could work, it's just a really, really long time, and the changes become far more drastic. Edited April 29, 2016 by Arkangilos

[Damon Nightman]

Changes to the imperium? Or changes to them from the warp?

 

Any thoughts on my new name ideas, if you don't mind me asking lol.

 

 

Im gonna update this thread, hopefully tonight, and make the op a lot more clear an concise.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Brother Lemartes

[Spagunk]

The inquisitor was genetically enhanced, organs are vat grown, etc.

 

Here is at least one example:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Hector_Rex

 

At the very least, the wings can be vat grown like other organs and attached in the same way as organic limbs (which we know Space Marines can do).

 

Don't suppose you can cite where Fabius is the only one?

 

Also, I agree that they can't come up with new genetic enhancements, but there is nothing saying there aren't already schematics for these.

 

So here is the deal. The process for creating a space marine is easiest on children. That is why all SM are grown in this manner. Since this guy basically was given a SM treatment in adolescence, he was still young enough to take the already "known" process and grow into essentially a Non-sm Space Marine. This is known. However, the process is arcane and very must ritualistic. Has been since the Emperor no longer guided the creation of space marines. My reference is every single space marine codex and book ever written on the subject. Inquisitors are special because they can request this to happen to anyone rather than swear loyalty to a space marine chapter and follow their rituals. The process though may be a bit more sophisticated than space marines but it is still arcane. Otherwise everyone could potentially get one and you'd have space marines (sans armor) running around in the imperial guard. Or maybe just their top brass. Who knows. But the secrets aren't actually known. They just have the blueprint and machines to do this and they follow the instructions. No one really knows how this works. Or, if they do, it is so super secret that only a select few know how it is done. Just because this guy received them, doesn't mean they understand the process completely. It just means the guys who did it were good at pressing buttons and have a high success rate for people who can afford it (I.E. inquisition). Same reason why inquisitors can get power armor even though it costs more than most planet's wealth to have a set.

 

That being said, Raven Guard received the secrets of gene-manipulation from the Emperor during the Horus Heresy. They were supposed to use this to fix their chapter and regrow to legion strength. This is quoted within a few HH novels. But Fabious actually stole the information and sabotaged the Raven's work preventing them from ever knowing how to create new templates/marines. So the best they have is what everyone else has which is to use their existing marines to incubate more geenseeds and implant into new recruits. Since no chapter truly has this data, and the Emperor is incommunicado, we are left with a small set of people in Terra (Inquisition) who even know how to do this stuff. Over 10k years, I highly doubt they have the actual knowledge to reproduce the process to create new genetically enhanced geneseeds for new warriors. Instead, they likely have a template, machines and likely the arcane knowledge of the mechanicus to replicate the steps to do this. But actual gene manipulation, that is a bit outside anyone's ability save maybe some ancient mechanicus person who has long since gone insane.

 

Cybernetic enhancements, absolutely. Maybe not necessarily how to build it from scratch but likely a lot more information than they have for gene-manipulation.

 

Regardless of this, it's your story so do what you will. Just be aware that it is not really likely that anyone knows fully how this works short of praying to the machine gods that pushing the blue button works this time. My two cents on the matter. Go with it or ignore me, it's your story.

[Arkangilos]

I'm not talking about creating space marines, I am talking about genetic manipulation. The codices don't talk about that, they only talk about making space marines.

 

We know for a fact that many servitors are vat grown, we know that many normal organs are vat grown. Therefore, nothing says a pair of wings can not be vat grown as well.

 

Fabius is special in that he does crazy expirements to try and reproduce or enhance space marines even further, and even try to recreate Primarchs. Nothing says he is the only one that can biologically enhance people. Fluff says otherwise.

 

Nowhere once did I say create gene seed, nowhere did he say it. I specifically said it would just make more sense to grow a pair of wings in a vat (they can grow people in vats, and organs in vats) then to have random mutations of wings just pop up on several people.

 

And yes, organs, limbs, and people are confirmed. Read on servitors, cherubs, the Death Korp of Krieg, etc.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Arkangilos

[Damon Nightman]

Lol thank you for all the detail, really appreciate it. I think I'm gonna drop the mutation thing. It's not an important to the history and something I was adding as an after thought.

 

Trying to think of something unique that came from them being in the warp so long, probably just gonna say a lot of them seemingly intentionally fell to the black rage so they could not fall to chaos, and now it seems that they view the rage as a gift to combat chaos and less of a curse.

 

But really o want to nail down the name first! Lol

Edited April 29, 2016 by Brother Lemartes

[Arkangilos]

The Revanent Angels is good, though I really like Desolation Angels, too.

 

Also, just because they were trapped in the warp doesn't mean they would fall to chaos. Blood Quest II and III take place in in the Eye of Terror and they don't fall. Lysander was trapped on a chaos world for about 1000 years, and he didn't fall. Plenty of examples. Though they would be under close scrutiny.

 

Though considering the flaw as a blessing is actually very interesting. After all, when one remembers Sanguinius's final memories, are they not closest to him? ;)

 

Also, as for the thousands of year changes, I meant the Imperium.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Arkangilos

[Damon Nightman]

If this guy Lysander can last for millennia than my chapter could last at least a few haha. But yeah, I really like the idea of the imperium being so different afterwards.

They would come out to this new world where their former legion is reduced to a mere 1000 men and everything else. They initially were very shocked and almost insulted of how things are run now, since they remember a time when the emperor wasn't viewed as a god and what not.

They easily abide to all the changes and kinda say "whatever, screw it. Things change, point me to the nearest traitor." But they never trust the HLoT and really fight for mankind because the emperor and sanguinius would want them to. In the open they eagerly follow the commands of the HLoT, but secretly know they can only trust their own brothers and select few other chapters.

They have accepted this new imperium for better or worse and they will do whatever they can to make the heretics pay. But they do hope the emperor will return from the throne and destroy the corrupt high lords and bring the imperium back to what it was.

For the name I'm trying if possible to avoid Angels in the name, but will accept it if it's clear the best. ( I know I've thrown out angel names too lol) I just really like the flesh tearers "motto" of "we were Angels no more."

Do you think just The Revenant, or The Revenants aren't as good as Revensnt Angels?

I like desolation Angels too, but I think the Revenant goes well with the backstory. Like "The Returned" from the warp.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Brother Lemartes